Once Saved Always Saved is True.
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2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
This is talking about people that escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
They had the knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ that He is Savior and a person can only escape the pollutions of the world by Jesus Christ.
They got tangled back in the world and became worse than at the beginning before they were saved.
They escaped the world which no one can do unless they were saved by Jesus.
But it would of been better for them if they had not known the way of righteousness then after knowing it to turn from the holy commandment given to them.
They knew the way of righteousness and the holy commandment but turned from that.
They escaped the world by the knowledge of Jesus Christ the Savior.
They knew the way of righteousness.
They had the holy commandment delivered to them.
This obviously can only apply to a person that has been saved.
But they turned form those things by going back to the pollutions of the world and got entangled in it and were worse which is like a sow that was clean wen back to wallowing in mud and becoming dirty.
This obviously without a doubt is talking about a person saved and then losing salvation because when they turned from the truth it would of had better if they had known the truth than to turn from.
That does not sound good that it would of had been better for them to not have known the truth than to turn from it and we know people that do not know the truth shall still be punished for not turning to the truth.
It is obvious they lost salvation and since it is a warning to the saints then it could happen if people play with fire and go back to their old lifestyle.
Which remember Lot's wife how she turned back and turned in to a pillar of salt.
And Jesus said any person putting their hand to the plow and looks back is unfit for the kingdom of God.
Which means that anyone that starts living for the kingdom of God and looks back to a life of sin which is going back to the world is unfit for the kingdom of God.
More warnings so a person can lose salvation for why would there be warnings if it were not possible.
It is obvious without a doubt that it is talking about people that were saved being tangled again in the world and losing salvation because they became like the world again which is unclean.
People will defend their beliefs tooth and nail and do not want to hear scriptures the way that it reads.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
This is talking about people that escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
They had the knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ that He is Savior and a person can only escape the pollutions of the world by Jesus Christ.
They got tangled back in the world and became worse than at the beginning before they were saved.
They escaped the world which no one can do unless they were saved by Jesus.
But it would of been better for them if they had not known the way of righteousness then after knowing it to turn from the holy commandment given to them.
They knew the way of righteousness and the holy commandment but turned from that.
They escaped the world by the knowledge of Jesus Christ the Savior.
They knew the way of righteousness.
They had the holy commandment delivered to them.
This obviously can only apply to a person that has been saved.
But they turned form those things by going back to the pollutions of the world and got entangled in it and were worse which is like a sow that was clean wen back to wallowing in mud and becoming dirty.
This obviously without a doubt is talking about a person saved and then losing salvation because when they turned from the truth it would of had better if they had known the truth than to turn from.
That does not sound good that it would of had been better for them to not have known the truth than to turn from it and we know people that do not know the truth shall still be punished for not turning to the truth.
It is obvious they lost salvation and since it is a warning to the saints then it could happen if people play with fire and go back to their old lifestyle.
Which remember Lot's wife how she turned back and turned in to a pillar of salt.
And Jesus said any person putting their hand to the plow and looks back is unfit for the kingdom of God.
Which means that anyone that starts living for the kingdom of God and looks back to a life of sin which is going back to the world is unfit for the kingdom of God.
More warnings so a person can lose salvation for why would there be warnings if it were not possible.
It is obvious without a doubt that it is talking about people that were saved being tangled again in the world and losing salvation because they became like the world again which is unclean.
People will defend their beliefs tooth and nail and do not want to hear scriptures the way that it reads.
Yes, He is faithful! Don't get me wrong, I believe in eternal security, as long as we believe.
As far as predestination goes, I believe in that also. But not that the individual is predestined, the plan of God from the foundation of the world was predestined for man, it is a choice.
The manner in which man is saved was predestined before the foundation of the world, predestined to that plan!
As far as predestination goes, I believe in that also. But not that the individual is predestined, the plan of God from the foundation of the world was predestined for man, it is a choice.
The manner in which man is saved was predestined before the foundation of the world, predestined to that plan!
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Agreed! He foreknew us, but the predestined bit is His plan of salvation and working everything out to the conformity of His will. Not that he decided who would be saved and who would be lost beforehand. Though of course He sees the beginning from then end.
"In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will,"
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Well, I know some read it as you do, but others do not--God is eternal, therefore He knows the end from the beginning--this does not mean He has decided who will be saved and who will be eternally damned--and yes if you believe in predestination you must believe the rest of humanity God has predestined to damnation!
The gospel of Salvation is offered to ALL by FREE WILL, otherwise it is no gift at all. The only thing that is predestined is for His plans to be carried out and that believers will be conformed into the image of Christ--nothing can thwart His ultimate plan.
If you take it to its logical conclusion then man has no say in the matter--if man has no say in the matter then the whole thing is a ruse.
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It does not matter what we think it matters what God says.
It does not mean he has not decided.
He predestined that we are conformed to his image. That is what is predestined.
’
who are we? Those whome he foreknow
what did he foreknew? Those who recieve his son
I never said otherwise. But like so many, You can’t hear what anyone says because you already have the answers in your head to anythign that is posed to you.
Once again, I have said whoever Believes of free will are predestined before time began
What God knows is WHO BELIEVED AND WHO DID NOT.
your stuck on calvinism. Until you get out of that rut you are unable to hear anything anyone says to you.
Back up and listen for a minute, and you may finally understand.
You have not heard a word I have said. Only what you want to hear
Oh Good Lordy me! Sorry EG, seems I got you mixed up with ET--I guess there was just something other worldly about you.
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Wow. I think it is you who need to back up--i feel like you're pushing me up against a wall with your finger in my face.
Predestination is a theology that came from John Calvin--I'm not 'stuck ' on it. Btw, why is it people who think they are right on these forums say, when the 'other side' disagrees, that they aren't isn't listening?
Because we don't agree with you does not mean we aren't listening.
Here are your exact words, which I responded to:
No, he predestined us before time began.
we can’t twist that to mean what it does not mean, he knew who would recieve and who would reject, we have to stop relegating God to time and human flaws
Ouch?
It's supposed to be funny. I guess I have to s-p-e-l-l it out for you. Instead of typing EG for Eternally Gratefully, I typed ET. Then they started a thread about ET-the character from the 1980's movie, ET? Sheesh.....
I hope that clears that up--it was to Eternally Gratefully in any case, so not sure why you're even responding.
It's supposed to be funny. I guess I have to s-p-e-l-l it out for you. Instead of typing EG for Eternally Gratefully, I typed ET. Then they started a thread about ET-the character from the 1980's movie, ET? Sheesh.....
I hope that clears that up--it was to Eternally Gratefully in any case, so not sure why you're even responding.
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I am not the one stuck on a calvinistic viewpoint. And not listening to what others are saying my friend
predestination is in the word of God multipl times. So it is not a calvinistic view. He has one view of what it means, others have a different view. To deny predestination is to deny the word
I'm not 'stuck ' on it. Btw, why is it people who think they are right on these forums say, when the 'other side' disagrees, that they aren't isn't listening?
Because we don't agree with you does not mean we aren't listening.
Because we don't agree with you does not mean we aren't listening.
Why is it when people are told they are not listening they continue to think they are right and deny they are doing anything wrong?
Yep
Calvinism DOES NOT TEACH THIS.
But since your stuck on trying to attack them. You can’t understant this
Once again, Whom he foreknew he did predestinate.
Thats the word of God no matter what you or Calvin thinks.its the word of God.