Sure it is.
Thanks, bro. Working pretty good so far.
Not Good - You just reversed the ORDER of the rapture to occur BEFORE the Resurrection.
That is a complete 100% LIE - you do not want that lie in your heart - do you?
How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church
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Not Good - You just reversed the ORDER of the rapture to occur BEFORE the Resurrection.
That is a complete 100% LIE - you do not want that lie in your heart - do you?
Absolutely! The Rapture is the first part of the first resurrection. You have been circling the field for quite some time now.
i told you i love because i know you have the love of Christ in your heart and that which we both have is our Bond Forever - AMEN
Hey!
the kinsman redeemer always comes to mind....how the harvest took place...
God Bless!
Everytime this subject comes up, by His Spirit,
the kinsman redeemer always comes to mind....how the harvest took place...
God Bless!
AMEN - but we must follow the events as they are laid out as a blueprint from the Lord in His word.
If we seek to alter His Blueprint, we fall into error, confusion and division.
This Blueprint of Order of Events is laid out in 1 Thessalonians 1:10 , 3:1-4, 4:13-18 , 2 Thess 2:1-3 , 1 John 2:14-19 , Rev 6:9-11 & ch 20
Do not accept, from anyone, not even from an angel, any disruption or change to that Order.
Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.”
37He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39The enemy who sowed them is the devil,
the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels.
40Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!
You said : "The Rapture happens pretrib, the Second Coming happens post-trib."
This is impossible according to the words of Christ and is the 'Lie', Christ desires you to drop like a hot searing double prong.
But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord,
#1 that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord
#2 will by no means precede those who are asleep (have died)
#3 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
#4And the dead in Christ will rise first.
#5 After that, we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.
pre-trib rapture is a lie from the pit of hell as it reverses the Order of Scripture.
Reversing the Order of Scripture comes from satan/religion.
D
DWR
Guest
I am fully aware of what the second death is.
What you have failed to explain is how the "rapture of the church" and the resurrection of the "tribulation saints" can be 7 years apart and also be in the FIRST resurrection.
Did not Paul state it would happen in a twinkling of an eye.
The way you believe it takes 7 years from the beginning until the end of the FIRST resurrection.
Don't you see how foolish and against Scripture that is?
My view on the Rapture ---
The Rapture of the Church is a very difficult subject to pin point straight on -----many Christians don't believe in such a process was ever in Scripture as the word Rapture is not in the Scriptures ---Many Christians believe that some Scripture talks about a Rapture of the Church ----Many argue about when this Rapture happens --some say before the tribulation ---some say The middle of the tribulation and some say the end of the tribulation ----So there is a lot to deal with when it comes to figuring out if there is or is not a Rapture of the Church and when it happens ----
I truly believe that the catching up of the Church is in the Scriptures and that they seems to say it will happen Pre-tribulation ---- We can't just pick 1 or 2 Scriptures and make a doctrine out of it ----when considering Scripture Context is everything and Scripture will always answer Scripture ----
There were 2 previous catching up or Raptures of God's people -----Enoch was one ----Hebrews 11 is all about the Faith of God;s People in the Old Testament -----and Enoch is mentioned in that Book ----
Hebrews 11 ESV
Faith
11 Faith is what makes real the things we hope for. It is proof of what we cannot see. 2 God was pleased with the people who lived a long time ago because they had faith like this.
3 Faith helps us understand that God created the whole world by his command. This means that the things we see were made by something that cannot be seen.
5 Enoch was carried away from this earth, so he never died. The Scriptures tell us that before he was carried off, he was a man who pleased God. Later, no one knew where he was, because God had taken Enoch to be with him. This all happened because he had faith.
6 Without faith no one can please God. Whoever comes to God must believe that he is real and that he rewards those who sincerely try to find him.
Elijah is the other -----2 Kings 2 talks about Elijah ---ESV
--
The Lord Takes Elijah Into Heaven
11 Elijah and Elisha were walking and talking together. Suddenly, some horses and a chariot came and separated Elijah from Elisha. The horses and the chariot were like fire. Then Elijah was carried up into heaven in a whirlwind.
12 Elisha saw it, and shouted, “My father! My father! The chariot of Israel and his horses![b]”
Elisha never saw Elijah again. Elisha grabbed his own clothes and tore them in two to show his sadness. 13 Elijah’s coat had fallen to the ground, so Elisha picked it up. He went back and stood at the edge of the Jordan River. 14 He hit the water and said, “Where is the Lord, the God of Elijah?” Just as Elisha hit the water, the water separated to the right and to the left! Then Elisha crossed the river.
So we see both these people were caught up alive or Raptured ---and we also see with Elijah that he shed his cloak so he shed His clothes as he was Changed from the Physical to the Spiritual ----
Some Scholars say there was 3 Raptures as they count Jesus ---who ascended into heaven
Acts 1 NIV
Jesus Taken Up Into Heaven
So the catching away of the God's faithful is definitely in Scripture -----
I say -----Now as to the when for the Church -----well if one really thinks things through and researches Scripture we might see the When ----1 Thessalonians 4 CEB first talks about how we should live to please God ----the second part says ----
Believers who have died
13 Brothers and sisters, we want you to know about people who have died[d] so that you won’t mourn like others who don’t have any hope.
14 Since we believe that Jesus died and rose, so we also believe that God will bring with him those who have died in Jesus.
15 What we are saying is a message from the Lord: we who are alive and still around at the Lord’s coming definitely won’t go ahead of those who have died.
16 This is because the Lord himself will come down from heaven with the signal of a shout by the head angel and a blast on God’s trumpet. First, those who are dead in Christ will rise.
17 Then, we who are living and still around will be taken up together with them in the clouds to meet with the Lord in the air. That way we will always be with the Lord. 18 So encourage each other with these words.
I say -----So we see that the Dead Saints will be resurrected first and then all Believers will be taken up together to meet Jesus in the air ---so when do we think this happens ------
In - 1 Thessalonians 5 CEB ----this is about the coming of Jesus -----see verse 9
The Lord’s coming
5 We don’t need to write to you about the timing and dates, brothers and sisters. 2 You know very well that the day of the Lord is going to come like a thief in the night. 3 When they are saying, “There is peace and security,” at that time sudden destruction will attack them, like labor pains start with a pregnant woman, and they definitely won’t escape. 4 But you aren’t in darkness, brothers and sisters, so the day won’t catch you by surprise like a thief. 5 All of you are children of light and children of the day. We don’t belong to night or darkness. 6 So then, let’s not sleep like the others, but let’s stay awake and stay sober. 7 People who sleep sleep at night, and people who get drunk get drunk at night. 8 Since we belong to the day, let’s stay sober, wearing faithfulness and love as a piece of armor that protects our body[a] and the hope of salvation as a helmet.
9 God didn’t intend for us to suffer his wrath but rather to possess salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.
10 Jesus died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we will live together with him. 11 So continue encouraging each other and building each other up, just like you are doing already.
And in Revelations 3 Jesus talks to the Church
To the Church in Philadelphia
7 “To the angel of the church in Philadelphia write:
These are the words of him who is holy and true, who holds the key of David. What he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open. 8 I know your deeds. See, I have placed before you an open door that no one can shut. I know that you have little strength, yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name. 9 I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars—I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.
10 Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.
So i say ---this says to me that the Catching Up or the Rapture happens Pre--Tribulation ----it would make no sense for Jesus to say in Revelations 3:10 and 1 Thessalonians 5 that He is promising to keep believers free from wrath and then leave believers here on earth to go through the Tribulation which is 7 years ----
The Tribulation is for unbelievers and after the First part of the Tribulation which is 3 and one half years Jesus comes back to separate the Sheep and the Goats not to Rapture the church ----and then He comes back at the end of the last 3 and one half years to battle Satan and so there would be no time for the rapture of the Church at that time
The Rapture of the Church is a very difficult subject to pin point straight on -----many Christians don't believe in such a process was ever in Scripture as the word Rapture is not in the Scriptures ---Many Christians believe that some Scripture talks about a Rapture of the Church ----Many argue about when this Rapture happens --some say before the tribulation ---some say The middle of the tribulation and some say the end of the tribulation ----So there is a lot to deal with when it comes to figuring out if there is or is not a Rapture of the Church and when it happens ----
I truly believe that the catching up of the Church is in the Scriptures and that they seems to say it will happen Pre-tribulation ---- We can't just pick 1 or 2 Scriptures and make a doctrine out of it ----when considering Scripture Context is everything and Scripture will always answer Scripture ----
There were 2 previous catching up or Raptures of God's people -----Enoch was one ----Hebrews 11 is all about the Faith of God;s People in the Old Testament -----and Enoch is mentioned in that Book ----
Hebrews 11 ESV
Faith
11 Faith is what makes real the things we hope for. It is proof of what we cannot see. 2 God was pleased with the people who lived a long time ago because they had faith like this.
3 Faith helps us understand that God created the whole world by his command. This means that the things we see were made by something that cannot be seen.
5 Enoch was carried away from this earth, so he never died. The Scriptures tell us that before he was carried off, he was a man who pleased God. Later, no one knew where he was, because God had taken Enoch to be with him. This all happened because he had faith.
6 Without faith no one can please God. Whoever comes to God must believe that he is real and that he rewards those who sincerely try to find him.
Elijah is the other -----2 Kings 2 talks about Elijah ---ESV
--
The Lord Takes Elijah Into Heaven
11 Elijah and Elisha were walking and talking together. Suddenly, some horses and a chariot came and separated Elijah from Elisha. The horses and the chariot were like fire. Then Elijah was carried up into heaven in a whirlwind.
12 Elisha saw it, and shouted, “My father! My father! The chariot of Israel and his horses![b]”
Elisha never saw Elijah again. Elisha grabbed his own clothes and tore them in two to show his sadness. 13 Elijah’s coat had fallen to the ground, so Elisha picked it up. He went back and stood at the edge of the Jordan River. 14 He hit the water and said, “Where is the Lord, the God of Elijah?” Just as Elisha hit the water, the water separated to the right and to the left! Then Elisha crossed the river.
So we see both these people were caught up alive or Raptured ---and we also see with Elijah that he shed his cloak so he shed His clothes as he was Changed from the Physical to the Spiritual ----
Some Scholars say there was 3 Raptures as they count Jesus ---who ascended into heaven
Acts 1 NIV
Jesus Taken Up Into Heaven
So the catching away of the God's faithful is definitely in Scripture -----
I say -----Now as to the when for the Church -----well if one really thinks things through and researches Scripture we might see the When ----1 Thessalonians 4 CEB first talks about how we should live to please God ----the second part says ----
Believers who have died
13 Brothers and sisters, we want you to know about people who have died[d] so that you won’t mourn like others who don’t have any hope.
14 Since we believe that Jesus died and rose, so we also believe that God will bring with him those who have died in Jesus.
15 What we are saying is a message from the Lord: we who are alive and still around at the Lord’s coming definitely won’t go ahead of those who have died.
16 This is because the Lord himself will come down from heaven with the signal of a shout by the head angel and a blast on God’s trumpet. First, those who are dead in Christ will rise.
17 Then, we who are living and still around will be taken up together with them in the clouds to meet with the Lord in the air. That way we will always be with the Lord. 18 So encourage each other with these words.
I say -----So we see that the Dead Saints will be resurrected first and then all Believers will be taken up together to meet Jesus in the air ---so when do we think this happens ------
In - 1 Thessalonians 5 CEB ----this is about the coming of Jesus -----see verse 9
The Lord’s coming
5 We don’t need to write to you about the timing and dates, brothers and sisters. 2 You know very well that the day of the Lord is going to come like a thief in the night. 3 When they are saying, “There is peace and security,” at that time sudden destruction will attack them, like labor pains start with a pregnant woman, and they definitely won’t escape. 4 But you aren’t in darkness, brothers and sisters, so the day won’t catch you by surprise like a thief. 5 All of you are children of light and children of the day. We don’t belong to night or darkness. 6 So then, let’s not sleep like the others, but let’s stay awake and stay sober. 7 People who sleep sleep at night, and people who get drunk get drunk at night. 8 Since we belong to the day, let’s stay sober, wearing faithfulness and love as a piece of armor that protects our body[a] and the hope of salvation as a helmet.
9 God didn’t intend for us to suffer his wrath but rather to possess salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.
10 Jesus died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we will live together with him. 11 So continue encouraging each other and building each other up, just like you are doing already.
And in Revelations 3 Jesus talks to the Church
To the Church in Philadelphia
7 “To the angel of the church in Philadelphia write:
These are the words of him who is holy and true, who holds the key of David. What he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open. 8 I know your deeds. See, I have placed before you an open door that no one can shut. I know that you have little strength, yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name. 9 I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars—I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.
10 Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.
So i say ---this says to me that the Catching Up or the Rapture happens Pre--Tribulation ----it would make no sense for Jesus to say in Revelations 3:10 and 1 Thessalonians 5 that He is promising to keep believers free from wrath and then leave believers here on earth to go through the Tribulation which is 7 years ----
The Tribulation is for unbelievers and after the First part of the Tribulation which is 3 and one half years Jesus comes back to separate the Sheep and the Goats not to Rapture the church ----and then He comes back at the end of the last 3 and one half years to battle Satan and so there would be no time for the rapture of the Church at that time
OK - nice Scriptures - all of them Truth
You said: "I truly believe that the catching up of the Church is in the Scriptures and that they seems to say it will happen Pre-tribulation ---- We can't just pick 1 or 2 Scriptures and make a doctrine out of it ----when considering Scripture Context is everything and Scripture will always answer Scripture ----"
Nothing wrong with assumptions, they are good when we are seeking, but everyone must take those assumptions to Jesus and His word and make sure they are always submitted there and stay there.
Religion begins with assumptions and then selectively picking scriptures that seemingly support the assumptions.
God is not the author of confusion - religion, pride, and satan are.
The Lord made clear to us, in His Word, when the rapture occurs.
Your Mission, as a student of the word, is to find the Truth according to God's word and not rely on assumptions.
There is a good reason why such a discussion was taking place at the time Lindsey began his work which would culminate into "Late Great", one of the most disasterous books ever written about eschatology.
Cyrus Scofield.
Scofield discovered Darby's ideas (which Darby himself derived from 300 year old garbage Jesuit Ribera's theories) and decided to incorporate his ideas aas footnotes in the infamous "Scofield Reference Bible". When this bible began to be distributed among American Seminaries and Bible colleges, Jesuit Futurist preachers began rolling off the assembly line one after the other. With the help of "Late Great" and later "Left Behind" books, today's Christians are completely brainwashed with Jesuit/Darby ideas, and refuse to abandon them when shown how unBiblical they are.
Hi!
--------
There are DIFFERENT harvests in the Bible…
1) The Barley Harvest
BARLEY. The barley is winnowed. That simply means that it is thrown up into the air, because it is easy enough to remove the chaff from the grain in this manner. This is traditionally done by repeatedly tossing the grain up into a light wind. And the wind gradually blows the lighter chaff away.
2) The Wheat Harvest
WHEAT. The process is different with wheat. Throwing it into the air would not be adequate to remove the chaff. So it is threshed. In other words, it is beaten because it requires more effort to remove the chaff from the grain.
3) The Grape Harvest
GRAPES. The process with grapes is different.
Grapes are crushed.
God Bless!
Exactly! Amen!
--------
There are DIFFERENT harvests in the Bible…
1) The Barley Harvest
BARLEY. The barley is winnowed. That simply means that it is thrown up into the air, because it is easy enough to remove the chaff from the grain in this manner. This is traditionally done by repeatedly tossing the grain up into a light wind. And the wind gradually blows the lighter chaff away.
2) The Wheat Harvest
WHEAT. The process is different with wheat. Throwing it into the air would not be adequate to remove the chaff. So it is threshed. In other words, it is beaten because it requires more effort to remove the chaff from the grain.
3) The Grape Harvest
GRAPES. The process with grapes is different.
Grapes are crushed.
God Bless!
Since the Lord Jesus Christ is our Kinsman Redeemer as portrayed in tne Book of Ruth - should you not believe and obey His teaching on what and when the Harvest is.
There is only one Harvest for mankind says the Lord: John 4:34
Jesus said to them, “My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me, and to finish His work.
Do you not say, ‘There are still four months and then comes the harvest’?
Behold, I say to you, lift up your eyes and look at the fields, for they are already white for harvest!
And he who reaps receives wages, and gathers fruit for eternal life, that both he who sows and he who reaps may rejoice together. For in this the saying is true: ‘One sows and another reaps.’ I sent you to reap that for which you have not labored; others have labored, and you have entered into their labors.”
Our Kinsman Redeemer said the Harvest for man began when the Lord walked this earth.
There is no 'pre-trib' rapture harvest - this is a LIE from satan that pleases the flesh and men swallow it whole so that it divides the Body of Christ.
Then He said to His disciples, “The harvest truly is plentiful, but the laborers are few. Therefore pray the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into His harvest.”
The Harvest began with Christ and will finish with Christ - at His Coming.
He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!
Dear Member Walknlight - Can you hear what the Lord said -He who has ears to hear, let him hear!
We have a contradiction here
Daniel 7:21, 22 "I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;"
Revelation 13:7 "And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Matthew 16:18 I say unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
The promise from the Lord is that the gates of Hell shall not prevail against the church He builds and yet in Revelation we are told that the Antichrist will prevail over the saints. Anyone who thinks there is no pre-tribulation rapture needs to reconcile this contradiction.
Daniel 7:21, 22 "I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;"
Revelation 13:7 "And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Matthew 16:18 I say unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
The promise from the Lord is that the gates of Hell shall not prevail against the church He builds and yet in Revelation we are told that the Antichrist will prevail over the saints. Anyone who thinks there is no pre-tribulation rapture needs to reconcile this contradiction.
That's funny...."in the twinkling of an eye" the rapture occurs...and you have the feeling that there will be no time for God's plan to carry out.
Give Christ some credit He will deal with Satan and world armies in hours or minutes and could do it in a snap of His fingers....a twinkling of an eye.