How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

[DavidTree]

An advocate must present evidence of his conclusion. Why can't you do that...you have been asked for it several times.
All you do is alledge...where's the beef?.

The Lord says: “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[peldom10]

i am ready, and have been, to repent in a moments notice of such "disagreement with God's word" - what about YOU ???

Now prove it by the Word of God, and if you cannot, i suggest you humble your pride against Him and His Body.

Bring forth the Scripture that says "Christ will pre-trib His Elect BEFORE the Resurrection."

Last word...you must show reason for your advocacy and you can't.

 

[peldom10]

The Lord says: “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

what you don't understand is the pre-trib rapture stands alone and is separate from the 2nd advent.

 

[DavidTree]

what you don't understand is the pre-trib rapture stands alone and is separate from the 2nd advent.

That is another lie to support the lie of pre-trib.

You stated it is in God's word - go find it already - based on your confidence level you should be posting clear Scripture of this supposed 'pre-trib' rapture = should be easy pie to find in Scripture.

 

[Aaron56]

The doctrine of a pre-tribulation rapture assuages the fears of those in the church who have never matured beyond infancy in the Lord. Because there is no abiding peace in the presence of the Lord they seek an easy way out of difficulties. These are the same who blame hardship on the sinner and have little or no appreciation for the fiery trials the Lord ordains. Regarding the fiery trials: they think voting Conservative and being vocally against homosexuality and the general malaise of the world earns them the distinction of that of "an overcomer". They likely have a 10 Commandments plaque hanging somewhere in their abode, too.

To my brothers and sisters who still argue with them: what are you doing here? You're wasting your time. You've made the case but they refuse to see it. What they need is not more knowledge but a healing from their own insecurities. All of us will need to trust the Lord in the dark times ahead and be willing to be numbered among the cursed of earth as the world sets out against us. For those who rely on an escape... the Lord may take them early through natural causes. He brings nothing in any of our lives that we cannot bear. However, for those too immature to carry weight, we cannot build with them, we cannot rely on them. They will offer nothing to the Body in the days that are coming upon the earth. Let the children play with the children but you, you who know the Lord and find refuge in Him, you who have been through fire and trials and are secure knowing that He will never leave us... strengthen your brothers and sisters. You are sons of the Living God. And you will overcome the evil one by the blood of the Lamb, by the word of your testimony, and you will not fear the threats of death.

 

[DavidTree]

The doctrine of a pre-tribulation rapture assuages the fears of those in the church who have never matured beyond infancy in the Lord. Because there is no abiding peace in the presence of the Lord they seek an easy way out of difficulties. These are the same who blame hardship on the sinner and have little or no appreciation for the fiery trials the Lord ordains. Regarding the fiery trials: they think voting Conservative and being vocally against homosexuality and the general malaise of the world earns them the distinction of that of "an overcomer". They likely have a 10 Commandments plaque hanging somewhere in their abode, too.

To my brothers and sisters who still argue with them: what are you doing here? You're wasting your time. You've made the case but they refuse to see it. What they need is not more knowledge but a healing from their own insecurities. All of us will need to trust the Lord in the dark times ahead and be willing to be numbered among the cursed of earth as the world sets out against us. For those who rely on an escape... the Lord may take them early through natural causes. He brings nothing in any of our lives that we cannot bear. However, for those too immature to carry weight, we cannot build with them, we cannot rely on them. They will offer nothing to the Body in the days that are coming upon the earth. Let the children play with the children but you, you who know the Lord and find refuge in Him, you who have been through fire and trials and are secure knowing that He will never leave us... strengthen your brothers and sisters. You are sons of the Living God. And you will overcome the evil one by the blood of the Lamb, by the word of your testimony, and you will not fear the threats of death.

Very few know that Job was a Prophet of God and the Book of Job is about the suffering of the Saints unto His Coming.

They are Job's three 'friends' - LOOK here Brother = James ch5

 

[DavidTree]

The doctrine of a pre-tribulation rapture assuages the fears of those in the church who have never matured beyond infancy in the Lord. Because there is no abiding peace in the presence of the Lord they seek an easy way out of difficulties. These are the same who blame hardship on the sinner and have little or no appreciation for the fiery trials the Lord ordains. Regarding the fiery trials: they think voting Conservative and being vocally against homosexuality and the general malaise of the world earns them the distinction of that of "an overcomer". They likely have a 10 Commandments plaque hanging somewhere in their abode, too.

To my brothers and sisters who still argue with them: what are you doing here? You're wasting your time. You've made the case but they refuse to see it. What they need is not more knowledge but a healing from their own insecurities. All of us will need to trust the Lord in the dark times ahead and be willing to be numbered among the cursed of earth as the world sets out against us. For those who rely on an escape... the Lord may take them early through natural causes. He brings nothing in any of our lives that we cannot bear. However, for those too immature to carry weight, we cannot build with them, we cannot rely on them. They will offer nothing to the Body in the days that are coming upon the earth. Let the children play with the children but you, you who know the Lord and find refuge in Him, you who have been through fire and trials and are secure knowing that He will never leave us... strengthen your brothers and sisters. You are sons of the Living God. And you will overcome the evil one by the blood of the Lamb, by the word of your testimony, and you will not fear the threats of death.

The Lord allows the error of pre-trib for growth of those whose hearts seek Truth - God wants His People to seek Truth.
Most just want to go along with the flow and dare not speak out for fear of the retribution of "Job's three friends".

“Behold, I am coming soon. Blessed is the one who keeps the words of prophecy in this book.
Behold, I am coming soon, and My reward is with Me, to give to each one according to what he has done.
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.”

Religious leaders love 'pre-trib' as it draws men unto themselves where they profit from it.

A True Teacher of God seeks to push the Saints towards Christ and His Holy Spirit and His Word for their benefit.
They place no value in the glory from men and will suffer as Job, finding themselves in the midst of their Brethren who sneer and bring false accusations.

God placed Job in that suffering because HE loved Job and wanted to bless him with Himself in a way which Job could not undersatnd during his suffering.

The Lord also was working in and thru Job to sustain him and to demonstrate His Glory before the Holy Angels who were also part of this Test, observing the Almighty working thru mere flesh to overcome the highest Angelic Being - Satan.

 

[ewq1938]

You are not disagreeing with me you are disagreeing with The Bible...God's word.

YOU are not disagreeing with me YOU are disagreeing with The Bible...God's word.

 

[ewq1938]

To my brothers and sisters who still argue with them: what are you doing here? You're wasting your time. You've made the case but they refuse to see it.

We are here for those who are reading. We aren't trying to convince the pre-tribbers we are debating with.

 

[Absolutely]

The doctrine of a pre-tribulation rapture assuages the fears of those in the church who have never matured beyond infancy in the Lord. Because there is no abiding peace in the presence of the Lord they seek an easy way out of difficulties. These are the same who blame hardship on the sinner and have little or no appreciation for the fiery trials the Lord ordains. Regarding the fiery trials: they think voting Conservative and being vocally against homosexuality and the general malaise of the world earns them the distinction of that of "an overcomer". They likely have a 10 Commandments plaque hanging somewhere in their abode, too.

To my brothers and sisters who still argue with them: what are you doing here? You're wasting your time. You've made the case but they refuse to see it. What they need is not more knowledge but a healing from their own insecurities. All of us will need to trust the Lord in the dark times ahead and be willing to be numbered among the cursed of earth as the world sets out against us. For those who rely on an escape... the Lord may take them early through natural causes. He brings nothing in any of our lives that we cannot bear. However, for those too immature to carry weight, we cannot build with them, we cannot rely on them. They will offer nothing to the Body in the days that are coming upon the earth. Let the children play with the children but you, you who know the Lord and find refuge in Him, you who have been through fire and trials and are secure knowing that He will never leave us... strengthen your brothers and sisters. You are sons of the Living God. And you will overcome the evil one by the blood of the Lamb, by the word of your testimony, and you will not fear the threats of death.

Meanwhile back in bible land with open bible we read that all earths inhabitants recieve the mark or are beheaded.
The ac is commissioned to overcome the saints...YES we READ that in our bibles.

We READ in acts 1 Jesus returns "IN LIKE MANNER".

WE READ in revelation 19 The church is there DURING the trib And returns as WARRIORS ON HORSES.

We read in rev 19 the wife BECOMES THE BRIDE in HEAVEN.

Every rapture verse is peacetime...NOT war or any hint of war or destroyed earth.

Go ahead an do conjecture and false statements.

Not honest....and DEFINATELY not BIBLE.

 

[Absolutely]

YOU are not disagreeing with me YOU are disagreeing with The Bible...God's word.

Post a verse.
Not conjecture.
A verse.
.....and dont deflect...answer honestly.

 

[Absolutely]

The whole cut and paste of the Treatises of Cyprian, is a construct not found in the writing. It seems someone took a page and a half and tried to condense it into a small paragraph. To note: Cyprian was referencing the current age, and the worsening of the days as they grow more evil. There is no way one could see anything about the pre-trib rapture unless they were already set in their own understanding.

Likewise, in the reference of Irenaeus, he clearly is talking about the church overcoming the wickedness of the world: "And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, "There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be." For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption" for how does a contest of the righteous exist with only one side present. This is the only obscure reference in the whole of the writing (it would fill a book). I assume people are reading what they already want to believe. This is not surprising, many treat the scriptures in the same manner.

I'll assume the same about the other references.

The Baptists had to protect their investment. The pre-trib rapture doctrine was a promising cash cow. So, they sifted through early writings to find obscure references to support their conclusion. This was important to them: since, after denying that God still speaks to the spirits of men, they needed a doctrine they could package within dispensationalism and market to the consumers. Once you deny that the Spirit of God still speaks to men, you're left with English, Greek, and Hebrew etymology. And, with their head down in old books trying to justify themselves, the Lord arose elsewhere, and they perceived Him not.

Meanwhile on the actual bible realm....

Post me a verse supoorting your doctrine.

No deflection
No conjecture.

Would be refreshing to see one.

Or post what os mossing in you postribbers.....the actual rapture verses ( from us...you are not aware of them)
....and lets go
Go!
No conjecture. No deflection

Go

Crack a bible

 

[Absolutely]

We are here for those who are reading. We aren't trying to convince the pre-tribbers we are debating with.

But you have a platform to present your case SCRIPTURALLY.

For all to see.

And you squander that with back and forth conjecture.

Get bible and lets go.

No playing games

Go

Lets go.

 

[Absolutely]

Last word...you must show reason for your advocacy and you can't.

Just keep the rapture verses before them

MAKE THEM REFUTE THE WORD.

They want back and forth rabbit trails.

Just keep bringing verses forward and call them on it.

Beware of tactics.
" darby"
" trump"
"Seventh"
"Last"
"Early church"

Pure rabbit trails

" this trump here..is this trump over here"
Ridiculous nonsense

 

[Absolutely]

The doctrine of a pre-tribulation rapture assuages the fears of those in the church who have never matured beyond infancy in the Lord. Because there is no abiding peace in the presence of the Lord they seek an easy way out of difficulties. These are the same who blame hardship on the sinner and have little or no appreciation for the fiery trials the Lord ordains. Regarding the fiery trials: they think voting Conservative and being vocally against homosexuality and the general malaise of the world earns them the distinction of that of "an overcomer". They likely have a 10 Commandments plaque hanging somewhere in their abode, too.

To my brothers and sisters who still argue with them: what are you doing here? You're wasting your time. You've made the case but they refuse to see it. What they need is not more knowledge but a healing from their own insecurities. All of us will need to trust the Lord in the dark times ahead and be willing to be numbered among the cursed of earth as the world sets out against us. For those who rely on an escape... the Lord may take them early through natural causes. He brings nothing in any of our lives that we cannot bear. However, for those too immature to carry weight, we cannot build with them, we cannot rely on them. They will offer nothing to the Body in the days that are coming upon the earth. Let the children play with the children but you, you who know the Lord and find refuge in Him, you who have been through fire and trials and are secure knowing that He will never leave us... strengthen your brothers and sisters. You are sons of the Living God. And you will overcome the evil one by the blood of the Lamb, by the word of your testimony, and you will not fear the threats of death.

NOTHING AT ALL OF SCRIPTURE.

Your entire article is accusation , empty opinion, and conjecture.

You are actually making false statement NO BIBLE ANYTHING, And your students give you blue ribbons.

Do you ever go verse vs verse???

Open a bible. Get some verses together and debate using verses.

No deflection.

Make me into a postribber with actual bible verses

Get completely out of extra biblical concepts.

Lets go

 

[DWR]

Just keep the rapture verses before them

MAKE THEM REFUTE THE WORD.

They want back and forth rabbit trails.

Just keep bringing verses forward and call them on it.

Beware of tactics.
" darby"
" trump"
"Seventh"
"Last"
"Early church"

Pure rabbit trails

" this trump here..is this trump over here"
Ridiculous nonsense

So when Paul said we would be changed in the twinkling of an eye at the LAST trump, he was lying to us.
I see you are one of those who believe last does not mean last and first does not mean first unless it fits your twisted version of Scripture.

 

[DavidTree]

Meanwhile back in bible land with open bible we read that all earths inhabitants recieve the mark or are beheaded.
The ac is commissioned to overcome the saints...YES we READ that in our bibles.

We READ in acts 1 Jesus returns "IN LIKE MANNER".

WE READ in revelation 19 The church is there DURING the trib And returns as WARRIORS ON HORSES.

We read in rev 19 the wife BECOMES THE BRIDE in HEAVEN.

Every rapture verse is peacetime...NOT war or any hint of war or destroyed earth.

Go ahead an do conjecture and false statements.

Not honest....and DEFINATELY not BIBLE.

All of which you state here is according to Matthew 24: 29-31 "Immediately after the Tribulation of those days..."

You still do not understand "And they were married and given in marriage until Noah entered the Ark and the flood took them away"

You do not understand how the Bride becomes the Wife in Revelation 19.

But here is a clue for you - Immediately after the Tribulation of those days.....

 

[Absolutely]

The Lord allows the error of pre-trib for growth of those whose hearts seek Truth - God wants His People to seek Truth.
Most just want to go along with the flow and dare not speak out for fear of the retribution of "Job's three friends".

“Behold, I am coming soon. Blessed is the one who keeps the words of prophecy in this book.
Behold, I am coming soon, and My reward is with Me, to give to each one according to what he has done.
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.”

Religious leaders love 'pre-trib' as it draws men unto themselves where they profit from it.

A True Teacher of God seeks to push the Saints towards Christ and His Holy Spirit and His Word for their benefit.
They place no value in the glory from men and will suffer as Job, finding themselves in the midst of their Brethren who sneer and bring false accusations.

God placed Job in that suffering because HE loved Job and wanted to bless him with Himself in a way which Job could not undersatnd during his suffering.

The Lord also was working in and thru Job to sustain him and to demonstrate His Glory before the Holy Angels who were also part of this Test, observing the Almighty working thru mere flesh to overcome the highest Angelic Being - Satan.

nowhere did Job know the devil did all that to him.
You just now learned that.

Your deal fails totally because you are equating the believer to that false dynamic.

Its like you believe you are Job and need to go unto the devils kingdom and not even know it is him killing your family killing your animals and making you sick. Totally helpless and no authority over the devil?

Wow what a false doctrine has done to you.

Pssst...Job is not at all a nt dynamic.

We have discernment and knowledge and authority over the devil.

All job represents to the believer is perseverence, determination, and patience per James the last chapter.
There is a bonus to Job for those walking in the spirit.
"The destruction of the flesh"

 

[DavidTree]

nowhere did Job know the devil did all that to him.
You just now learned that.

Your deal fails totally because you are equating the believer to that false dynamic.

Its like you believe you are Job and need to go unto the devils kingdom and not even know it is him killing your family killing your animals and making you sick. Totally helpless and no authority over the devil?

Wow what a false doctrine has done to you.

Pssst...Job is not at all a nt dynamic.

We have discernment and knowledge and authority over the devil.

All job represents to the believer is perseverence, determination, and patience per James the last chapter.
There is a bonus to Job for those walking in the spirit.
"The destruction of the flesh"

lol - remain in ignorance or open your heart to Scripture

No one said (adding to my words again) that Job knew the behind the scene conversation God had with satan.

Read and meditate on James chapter 5 which, by itself destroys, again, the lie of pre-trib.

Pssst.........OT Prophets fortell NT events - Truth 101 = Amos 3:7

Surely the Lord GOD does nothing
without revealing His plan
to His servants the prophets.

 

[DWR]

Rev.20 speaks of the FIRST resurrection.
It clearly teaches that the only way to escape the second death is to be in the First resurrection.
It also teaches that all whose names are in the book of life will be in the FIRST resurrection.
Also those "tribulation saints" will be in the FIRST resurrection.
SO---- here is the question---How can "the rapture of the church" take place 7 years before the "tribulation saints" are resurrected and they both be in the FIRST resurrection?