What did Jesus say about HIMSELF?
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Firstly, you have it all backward, Jesus told Pilate that if he spoke of himself his testimony would be a lie, he said another would speak of him. So, the Holy Spirit working through men (the Four Gospels) testified of Jesus. This is why the Four Gospels vary, even in the same descriptions, because men see the same evens differently because they witnesses events from different viewpoints, which makes their witness "Authentic" if they were trying to dupe people, lie the liberals (LOL) they would always have the exact same story when they lied. People who print different viewpoints of the sea story are thus not conspiring together, but telling a genuine, authentic story of what they remember, if the life, of Jesus Christ of Nazereth.
Liars conspire and thus all tell things the same way, truth-tellers all see the same story from different viewpoints and thus we have Four Gospels, not one for a reason.
Jesus explicitly stated I bear not witness of myself. Your thread says different, (I know what you meant, but it comes off looking odd).
Liars conspire and thus all tell things the same way, truth-tellers all see the same story from different viewpoints and thus we have Four Gospels, not one for a reason.
Jesus explicitly stated I bear not witness of myself. Your thread says different, (I know what you meant, but it comes off looking odd).
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Agree - Arrogance is when a person seeks to impose their limited knowledge upon the word of God.
There is much arrogance on these forums as few obey and follow the Eternal Commandment
Hear now, O Israel, the statutes and ordinances I am teaching you to follow, so that you may live and may enter and take possession of the land that the LORD, the God of your fathers, is giving you.
You must not add to or subtract from what I command you, so that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God that I am giving you.
Deuteronomy 4:1-2
Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar.
Proverbs 30:5-6
I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book.
Revelation 22:18-19
There is much arrogance on these forums as few obey and follow the Eternal Commandment
Hear now, O Israel, the statutes and ordinances I am teaching you to follow, so that you may live and may enter and take possession of the land that the LORD, the God of your fathers, is giving you.
You must not add to or subtract from what I command you, so that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God that I am giving you.
Deuteronomy 4:1-2
Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar.
Proverbs 30:5-6
I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book.
Revelation 22:18-19
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I really cannot, but I agree with you on this topic. If you read what the early church believed, in the New Testament and even in the church fathers as they are called before the 300s, there is no "God the Son" as that would make two gods, there is no doctrine of the trinity spelled out anywhere in the Bible, most likely because it wasn't taught and because it is against all reason and sound logic, and we know God is the ultimate in those regards.
I believe it as the Bible says it, God the Father sent His Son to die for us. Father is greater than the Son, and the Son will hand over the Kingdom to the Father at the end.
The Holy Spirit is obviously God's spirit, no grand mystery there.
Whether the Son is pre-existing or not is more of a philosophical conversation, but I believe He did pre-exist because many verses say He came and He goes back, and also He is said to be the firstborn of God's creation in Colossians 1:15 and Revelation 3.14
I believe it as the Bible says it, God the Father sent His Son to die for us. Father is greater than the Son, and the Son will hand over the Kingdom to the Father at the end.
The Holy Spirit is obviously God's spirit, no grand mystery there.
Whether the Son is pre-existing or not is more of a philosophical conversation, but I believe He did pre-exist because many verses say He came and He goes back, and also He is said to be the firstborn of God's creation in Colossians 1:15 and Revelation 3.14
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Re: What Did Jesus Say About Himself?
• John 14:6 . . I am the way
The Greek word translated "way" is somewhat ambiguous. It can not only
indicate a route-- a path, a road, or a trail --but also progress.
For example, it takes roughly five months for people afoot to complete the
entire route of the Pacific Coast Trail from Campo California to Washington
State's border with Canada.
Resourceful hiker trash report their daily progress on social media platforms
like FaceBook and YouTube. Successful thru hikers-- those who complete the
journey --publish one final progress report when they reach their ultimate
destination: the Canadian border.
That's the sort of progress report that Jesus announced on the cross when
he said "It is finished." His crucifixion was trail's end, and he capped the
journey by crossing the border, viz: by rising from the dead.
People who have come to faith in Christ, don't need to retrace his steps in
order to be in the way because they already did. God-- by some strange
procedure that I do not yet quite understand --reckons them crucified, died,
buried, and resurrected along with, and in, His son. (Rom 6:3-11, Gal 2:20,
and Col 3:2-3)
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Re: What Did Jesus Say About Himself?
• John 14:6 . . I am the way
The Greek word translated "way" is somewhat ambiguous. It can not only
indicate a route-- a path, a road, or a trail --but also progress.
For example, it takes roughly five months for people afoot to complete the
entire route of the Pacific Coast Trail from Campo California to Washington
State's border with Canada.
Resourceful hiker trash report their daily progress on social media platforms
like FaceBook and YouTube. Successful thru hikers-- those who complete the
journey --publish one final progress report when they reach their ultimate
destination: the Canadian border.
That's the sort of progress report that Jesus announced on the cross when
he said "It is finished." His crucifixion was trail's end, and he capped the
journey by crossing the border, viz: by rising from the dead.
People who have come to faith in Christ, don't need to retrace his steps in
order to be in the way because they already did. God-- by some strange
procedure that I do not yet quite understand --reckons them crucified, died,
buried, and resurrected along with, and in, His son. (Rom 6:3-11, Gal 2:20,
and Col 3:2-3)
_
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The origins of the doctrine of the “immortality of the soul”
We have seen in the article: “Resurrection or life immediately after the death?” that the Bible clearly and unanimously presents the dead as sleeping and having no consciousness. Just to give again some of the related passages:
Daniel 12:2 says:
“And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.”
Everlasting life starts not with death but with the resurrection! Till then those who have died are presented as “sleeping in the dust of the earth”. See that God did not tell Daniel “and many of them whose souls are now in heaven”.
Same also with Paul: when speaking to the Thessalonians about the dead and the hope we have in the resurrection he spoke about those “sleeping”: In every verse of 1 Thessalonians 4:13-16 he mentions the dead. See the terms that he uses:
1 Thessalonians 4:13-16
“But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:”
Paul’s hope, the hope that God gave to us in his Word has only one name: resurrection. Sometime between now and the resurrection some of us, perhaps all (depending on when the Lord will come – this time nobody knows), will die. We will not then enter into a blissful state in heaven or in paradise. Instead we will be sleeping. Where? In the dust of the ground, or as it is usually called in the Word “Sheol” or “Hades”, the gravedom ). This is the simple and easy to grasp truth of the Word of God.
https://www.jba.gr/The-origins-of-the-doctrine-of-the-immortality-of-the-soul.htm
We have seen in the article: “Resurrection or life immediately after the death?” that the Bible clearly and unanimously presents the dead as sleeping and having no consciousness. Just to give again some of the related passages:
Daniel 12:2 says:
“And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.”
Everlasting life starts not with death but with the resurrection! Till then those who have died are presented as “sleeping in the dust of the earth”. See that God did not tell Daniel “and many of them whose souls are now in heaven”.
Same also with Paul: when speaking to the Thessalonians about the dead and the hope we have in the resurrection he spoke about those “sleeping”: In every verse of 1 Thessalonians 4:13-16 he mentions the dead. See the terms that he uses:
1 Thessalonians 4:13-16
“But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:”
Paul’s hope, the hope that God gave to us in his Word has only one name: resurrection. Sometime between now and the resurrection some of us, perhaps all (depending on when the Lord will come – this time nobody knows), will die. We will not then enter into a blissful state in heaven or in paradise. Instead we will be sleeping. Where? In the dust of the ground, or as it is usually called in the Word “Sheol” or “Hades”, the gravedom ). This is the simple and easy to grasp truth of the Word of God.
https://www.jba.gr/The-origins-of-the-doctrine-of-the-immortality-of-the-soul.htm
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Concerning the origins of the idea of the immortality of the soul, Vine already gave us some hinds above: this belief comes from Greek philosophy, expounded especially by two of the chief Greek Philosophers: Plato and Socrates. Plato, though not the first to assert the doctrine of the immortal soul, he was definitely the most eloquent one.
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You may consider the scripture you quoted as a warning to yourself.
Here's another for you, "And you will be like God, knowing good from evil." The first sin man was tempted with.
What is so wrong is you are equating God's words with yours--meaning the words YOU write you equate with God's. You speak with your own opinions as if you can say "I'm right" and that settles the matter, even in the face if irrefutable evidence from scripture.
I have shown using scripture, along with the rational reasoning God gave me that it is in fact a PARABLE. What you believe, goes against commonsense and what the Scripture clearly teaches. People are not in heaven or hell now--they do not receive the gift of eternal life until Christ's Second Coming. Disembodied spirits do not go to heaven; they MUST be clothed with their spiritual bodies as Scriptures says.
"So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable;"..."They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies."--1st Corinthians 15:42-44
No one can be in God's presence without their spiritual body--it is inconceivable how this false doctrine of going directly to heaven and hell entered the church, when it can easily be refuted with SCRIPTURE.
It is impossible for Christ to preach to those that died in the flood --these were wicked people who God destroyed, therefore they have lost the opportunity for Salvation. The prison was the WATER as there was no escape from it --they were 'locked in'---Noah was a prophet and thru the power of the Holy Spirit (that is Christ and His Word) he preached to the wicked people who WERE still alive before the flood---scripture calls them spirits as it is with our spirit we understand Truth. Also because they were dead. Those spirits as are all who are dead and decayed will rise bodily to face the judgment. To say people can go to heaven WITHOUT facing the judgment is contrary to the gospel and to the scripture--the first lie of Satan,
"You shall not surely die."
Here's another for you, "And you will be like God, knowing good from evil." The first sin man was tempted with.
What is so wrong is you are equating God's words with yours--meaning the words YOU write you equate with God's. You speak with your own opinions as if you can say "I'm right" and that settles the matter, even in the face if irrefutable evidence from scripture.
I have shown using scripture, along with the rational reasoning God gave me that it is in fact a PARABLE. What you believe, goes against commonsense and what the Scripture clearly teaches. People are not in heaven or hell now--they do not receive the gift of eternal life until Christ's Second Coming. Disembodied spirits do not go to heaven; they MUST be clothed with their spiritual bodies as Scriptures says.
"So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable;"..."They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies."--1st Corinthians 15:42-44
No one can be in God's presence without their spiritual body--it is inconceivable how this false doctrine of going directly to heaven and hell entered the church, when it can easily be refuted with SCRIPTURE.
It is impossible for Christ to preach to those that died in the flood --these were wicked people who God destroyed, therefore they have lost the opportunity for Salvation. The prison was the WATER as there was no escape from it --they were 'locked in'---Noah was a prophet and thru the power of the Holy Spirit (that is Christ and His Word) he preached to the wicked people who WERE still alive before the flood---scripture calls them spirits as it is with our spirit we understand Truth. Also because they were dead. Those spirits as are all who are dead and decayed will rise bodily to face the judgment. To say people can go to heaven WITHOUT facing the judgment is contrary to the gospel and to the scripture--the first lie of Satan,
"You shall not surely die."
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You have it reversed as you are the one who always seeks to undermine any Scripture that does not fit your agenda and then add your belief system upon God's words.
Evidence: you say: "It is impossible for Christ to preach to those that died in the flood"
The Scripture says: For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah,
What greatly upsets you is your error that you seek to defend against the Truth of Scripture that i stand on.
Evidence: you say: "It is impossible for Christ to preach to those that died in the flood"
The Scripture says: For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah,
What greatly upsets you is your error that you seek to defend against the Truth of Scripture that i stand on.
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Re: What Did Jesus Say About Himself?
• John 11:25 . . I am the resurrection.
People who make the cut for a bodily Christian resurrection will be immortal.
(1Cor 15:51-54)
However; at the time Jesus made that statement, he wasn't yet risen from
the dead, i.e. Jesus wasn't immortal. We can be sure of that because had he
been, then it would've been very difficult for the Romans to execute him on
the cross. Jesus is immortal now (Rom 6:9 and 1Tim 6:16) but he wasn't
then.
So; there's apparently more to the resurrection that Jesus spoke of than
immortality because the grammatical tense of his statement is present tense
rather than future; indicating he was the resurrection right then.
When Jesus was here, he was not only a human being with human life, but
he was also a human being with eternal life.
• John 5:26-27 . . For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted
the Son to have life in himself.
That very same eternal life is available right now, no delay and no waiting
period.
• John 5:24-25 . . I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes
Him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed
over from death to life. I tell you the truth; a time is coming, and has now
come, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who
hear will live.
So: a rough-hewn description of a Christian is someone that's a human
being with human life while simultaneously a human being with eternal life:
same as Jesus was, and still is.
But there's a catch. People cannot have eternal life a la carte as it can only
be had by having Christ too seeing as he is, in some mysterious way, the
very existence of eternal life even as his Father is the very existence of
eternal life.
• 1John 1:1-2 . . That which was from the beginning, which we have heard,
which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands
have touched-this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. The life
appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the
eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.
• 1John 5:11-12 . . God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His son.
He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does
not have the life.
NOTE: According to John 5:24-25 and 1John 5:11-2, people lacking eternal
life are not only dead on the hoof, but neither do they have God's son; which
is a very grave situation because according to Rom 8:9, folks lacking God's
son are outsiders, viz: they are not his sheep.
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Re: What Did Jesus Say About Himself?
• John 11:25 . . I am the resurrection.
People who make the cut for a bodily Christian resurrection will be immortal.
(1Cor 15:51-54)
However; at the time Jesus made that statement, he wasn't yet risen from
the dead, i.e. Jesus wasn't immortal. We can be sure of that because had he
been, then it would've been very difficult for the Romans to execute him on
the cross. Jesus is immortal now (Rom 6:9 and 1Tim 6:16) but he wasn't
then.
So; there's apparently more to the resurrection that Jesus spoke of than
immortality because the grammatical tense of his statement is present tense
rather than future; indicating he was the resurrection right then.
When Jesus was here, he was not only a human being with human life, but
he was also a human being with eternal life.
• John 5:26-27 . . For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted
the Son to have life in himself.
That very same eternal life is available right now, no delay and no waiting
period.
• John 5:24-25 . . I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes
Him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed
over from death to life. I tell you the truth; a time is coming, and has now
come, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who
hear will live.
So: a rough-hewn description of a Christian is someone that's a human
being with human life while simultaneously a human being with eternal life:
same as Jesus was, and still is.
But there's a catch. People cannot have eternal life a la carte as it can only
be had by having Christ too seeing as he is, in some mysterious way, the
very existence of eternal life even as his Father is the very existence of
eternal life.
• 1John 1:1-2 . . That which was from the beginning, which we have heard,
which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands
have touched-this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. The life
appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the
eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.
• 1John 5:11-12 . . God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His son.
He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does
not have the life.
NOTE: According to John 5:24-25 and 1John 5:11-2, people lacking eternal
life are not only dead on the hoof, but neither do they have God's son; which
is a very grave situation because according to Rom 8:9, folks lacking God's
son are outsiders, viz: they are not his sheep.
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What's astounding is I've already explained what that verse means! You are seriously flawed in your theology, since,
1. You would have to believe in a place of fiery torment --or purgatory (only believers receive eternal life, not unbelievers)
But Scripture says:
- "But transgressors will be altogether destroyed; The posterity of the wicked will be cut off." --Psalm 37: 38
- "The wages of sin is death."--Romans 6:23
- "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."--John 3:16
2. You would have to believe that we do not ALL face the judgment.
But Scripture says:
- "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad."--2nd Corinthians 5:10
3. You don't believe the scripture that says
- "It is appointed once to die, and then the judgment."
4. You have to believe that somehow people are still alive whether in body or spirit after they die, even though Scripture plainly says otherwise.
"Look on me and answer, LORD my God. Give light to my eyes, or I will sleep in death,"--Psalm 13:3
"After he had said this, he went on to tell them, "Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I am going there to wake him up."12His disciples replied, "Lord, if he sleeps, he will get better."13Jesus had been speaking of his death, but his disciples thought he meant natural sleep.14So then he told them plainly, "Lazarus is dead,"--John 11:12-14
- "But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope."-- 1 Thessalonians 4:13
- "For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep."--- 1 Thessalonians 4:14
- "Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep."--1 Corinthians 15:6
- More list of sleep in death verses here: https://www.openbible.info/topics/fall_asleep_in_death
Again--you are simply speaking from what you've been taught in your denomination rather than studying the scriptures as the Bereans did to see if what you've been taught is the Truth. It would take a matter of minutes to search thru the scripture to see that you believe and preach a lie. Note too, that you don't have any verses to support what you are saying. You spend more time telling people they are wrong than actually seeing if you might be the one who is wrong.