Is the Rapture a lie? Is Zionism a lie?

saintrose · Nov 8, 2021

I read that Scofield - who was behind the Rapture theory - which is not in the Bible - was a plant. He allegedly tricked Christians into supporting Zionism. Does anyone on here feel that the Rapture is a lie? What about Zionism?

https://litteraltruth.com/2021/11/02/how-gullible-christians-became-zionists/

ZNP · Nov 8, 2021

saintrose said:

The term "rapture" is not in the Bible.

However, Harpazo is in the Bible, rescue is in the Bible, Having the Father send Eleazar to find a bride and taking Rebecca to Isaac is in the Bible. The story of Noah is in the Bible. The story of Enoch being raptured is in the Bible. The story of Elijah being raptured is in the Bible. The resurrection is in the Bible. Following the path Jesus led is in the Bible. Being changed in the twinkling of an eye is in the Bible. The man child being caught up to heaven is in the Bible. Lot being rescued is in the Bible. Two are in the field or in a bed, one is taken the other left is in the Bible. The dead in Christ rise first is in the Bible. You lose credibility trying to scam people with this pathetic argument that "rapture" is not in the Bible inferring that the doctrine of the believers being caught up to the Lord is not in the Bible. We use other non Biblical words to describe Biblical doctrines: Triune, Trinity, imminence, etc.

Then you use another non Biblical term "zionism". Too vague, there are many different definitions. What is in the Bible is the Bible. The Old Testament is a covenant God made with Abraham, that covenant will be kept. Every man may be a liar but God will be shown to be true and faithful.

Skeet · Nov 8, 2021

even the word Bible's not in there...
i do believe we will be "caught up in the air"....1Thessilonians 4:17...

ZNP · Nov 8, 2021

saintrose said:

Runningman · Nov 8, 2021

saintrose said:

It's a logical fallacy to say that because the word rapture is not used in English Bibles (rapture is actually used in the French Bible I believe) that the rapture is either not in the Bible or is a lie.

Even though there is overwhelming evidence that supports the rapture doctrine, just because the word rapture isn't there doesn't mean it isn't described.

ZNP · Nov 8, 2021

BTW Scofield was not a plant, he was a human being.

surfer14 · Nov 8, 2021

saintrose said:

Yes, I think Scofield is a plant. It think he was acting on behalf of (((others))).
Yes, I think zionism is anti-Christian.
Yes, I think this whole pre-trib rapture thing is a total lie.

saintrose · Nov 9, 2021

ZNP said:

Please re-think your choice of words and insults. I am not trying to 'scam' anyone. I'm trying to learn what others believe about this - as in iron sharpens iron. I studied symbolism awhile back and learned that the flag flown in 'Israel' is satanic.

If any pastor says "we have to support Israel" I immediately turn them off. I do not believe that the physical country of Israel is what God is talking about. DNA tests prove that the people occupying Israel aren't even Abrahams descendants.

“Israel;” for that “they are not all Israel, which are of Israel” (Rom. 9:6). As Paul already declared in an earlier chapter: “He is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; but he is a Jew, which is one inwardly” (Rom. 2:28, 29)

If the country of Israel is flying the satanic flag then I can't see how God would have us 'bless' it:

https://christianitybeliefs.org/end-times-deceptions/the-star-of-david-deception/

I think there is deception going on that we were warned about:

https://jesus-is-savior.com/False Religions/Judaism/satanic.htm

The dangers of zionism:

http://www.jesusisprecious.org/false_doctrine/zionism/why_expose.htm

Allegedly Scofield invented the 'Rapture' theory to deceive believers. I believe it's the same reason for the Trump psyop: to keep believers passive waiting for the Rapture - or in the case of Trump - to fool them into believing they had a champion in the WH as he continued moving them towards the one-world government. Did you read the link?

saintrose · Nov 9, 2021

Runningman said:

We were warned:

Acts 20:29

“For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.”

From what I'm reading the 'Rapture' is false doctrine:

http://onlybibletruth.com/rapture-is-a-lie

It wasn't until the early or mid 1800's that there was any significant group of believers around the world that looked for a "rapture" of the Church prior to a seven-year tribulation period. It may come as a shock to some who read these lines, but it is a fact nonetheless, that the "rapture" teaching was NOT taught by the early Church, it was NOT taught by the Church of the first centuries, it was NOT taught by the Reformers, IT WAS NOT TAUGHT BY ANYONE (except a couple Roman Catholic theologians) UNTIL ABOUT THE YEAR 1830.

THERE IS NO RAPTURE!
The church systems are literally filled today with carnal, earthly-minded Christians who sit back in ease and self-complacency and await a future rapture that will translate them out of the midst of earth's Great Tribulation at the beginning of the Day of the Lord. To this generation of Lukewarm Laodiceans the Spirit speaks in certain tones of warning: "Woe unto you that desire the day of the Lord! to what end is it for you? the day of the Lord is darkness, and not light" (Amos 5:18).

https://historicist.info/articles2/rapturelie.htm

~~~~~~~

I encountered this. I tried to get friends to act against evil that was being thrust onto us and they refused to lift one finger because "the Bible said things will grow worse and they'll be magically "raptured" out." I don't believe that's what God expects of us. I read that the lie was promulgated to make Christians passive against encroaching evil.

I am no theologian - I have not even thoroughly studied the end times but I do question things. Having been in the church for years I've seen some pretty shocking things among 'God's chosen' - so I tend to question everything as I witnessed so much hypocrisy. I found a number of pastors and church leaders to be hypocrites and not at all godly. And these are the people I should trust? I think not.

I'm not saying I have answers - I'm grappling with trying to understand even where we are in the end times but I don't agree with Christians sitting passively back as the country descends into darkness. I believe we will be judged for what we did as well as WHAT WE DIDN'T DO.

And I think we should question everything as we were forewarned of end times deceptions.

2 Timothy 3:5

“Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.”

I'm reading this now:

https://www.mylife4jesus.co.za/index_files/Page559.htm

We were told:

"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." II Timothy 2:15

saintrose · Nov 9, 2021

surfer14 said:

That's what I read. These people are highly deceptive - they are of their father the devil and possess much cunning. I don't know everything and I'm stumbling through trying to learn about the last days. But I see too many who swallow zionism - while Israel flies the satanic flag - and there is no possible way God would have us worship or give to or bless Satan. So that concerns me.

Then I read that Scofield - who had quite a checkered past of divorcing his wife and abandoning his two daughters while he took off with another woman. He dumped her and married another. And this is who we should trust to give us 'biblical truth'?

ZNP · Nov 9, 2021

saintrose said:

Israel being reformed as a nation in a single day is a fulfillment of prophecy. The fig tree putting forth it's leaves is a very significant prophecy for the end times.

That said believers have a charge to witness concerning Jesus Christ, to tell others of this new life.

Israel being under the control of the Prince of the power of the air is no different from any other country. We are told very clearly in the NT that the entire world lies in the evil one. The fact that Israel, or the US, or Rome, or Russia, or China does is simply a confirmation of this word.

There is promise which is part of both the old and new covenant that those who bless God's people will be blessed.

We are also told that Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. There is no simple formula, that is why we need the Lord, we need the Spirit, we need the light of the word.

surfer14 · Nov 9, 2021

ZNP said:

And God's people are those who trust and worship Jesus.
Romans 9:8
"That is to say, not they that are the children of the flesh, are the children of God; but they, that are the children of the promise, are accounted for the seed."

surfer14 · Nov 9, 2021

saintrose said:

Reading about Scofield and who was funding him was a pretty big red pill for me. That was a part of how I opened my eyes to the jew and the infiltration of Christianity. But that isn't the biggest red pill... if you're ready for a super red pill, start watching this series. It's very, very thought provoking. I'd suggest starting at the beginning of the series.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLonegYXBrLbStENq_HPyOb4Qy9_qE3_2w

saintrose · Nov 10, 2021

ZNP said:

Where do you read in Scripture that 'Israel is reformed as a nation in a single day'? Perhaps I am missing something.

I have been watching the fig tree signs and it looks to me as if the end is close. My understanding of the end times is still foggy so I'm grappling with trying to discern where in the end times we're at.

You have a point: every country lies in the lap of the wicked one. However I knew that there was a concerted attempt by the illuminati - who likely communicate directly with Satan - to deceive believers. I read that they were the ones who implemented the 'nation' of 'Israel' so I am very wary of any teaching that has to do with it.

We were forewarned of end times deception and I have an uneasy feeling about any pastor who is an Israel worshipper. There is a lot I don't understand yet but this makes sense to me:

What’s Wrong With Christian Zionism? – A Simple Summary
February 15, 2020 by YNightingale
Here’s a brief and simple summary of what’s wrong with Christian Zionism.
By Brandee Gorsline
Dispensationalism and the Christian Zionists it has created is possibly the biggest and mostly widely spread deception facing Christians today. (thanks to the Scofield bible). I don’t know of a single church that hasn’t fallen prey to this dangerous interpretation and teaching of scripture that was contrived in the early 1900’s. (Darby and some other “Brethren” started it in the 1800’s then it became wide spread and popular with the release of the Scofield bible in 1909 and began to be taught at the seminaries and in churches because of all the free bibles that were distributed purposefully to spread this false doctrine.)
Believers in Jesus looking for a brick and mortar temple….THIS IS ANOTHER GOSPEL! The other gospel that Jesus and the Apostles warned us about in the Gospels and the Epistles. The same false gospel of the first century Jews who rejected Jesus as Messiah because they were looking for an earthly kingdom with a flesh and blood king where Jews would rule over the entire world.
They denied and hated Jesus because He offered them His kingdom which He said is NOT of this world and flesh and blood cannot enter into it…A SPIRITUAL KINGDOM! It was not what they expected or wanted in their carnal, fleshly bodies so they rejected Him completely to the point of crucifying Him.
Christians today are falling for the same false gospel which is being preached Sunday after Sunday in the fundamentalist churches. An earthly kingdom where Jews who reject the Gospel of Jesus Christ miraculously get saved by some gospel OTHER than the good news of Jesus Christ. Jesus’ kingdom, the kingdom of God is WITHIN us…not here on earth where it can be observed with our eyes.
1 Corinthians 3:16
“Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?”
The Body of Christ is the Temple of God with Jesus being the cornerstone!!
Luke 17:20-21
“And when he (Jesus) was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.”

saintrose · Nov 10, 2021

surfer14 said:

Yes - deception in the church pulpit is rampant. It's the same principle they're using with public schools: they captured the education system and are injecting lies into the minds of youth. They have dumbed us down over generations and only someone who really struggles to learn the truth (the narrow way) will find out we've been fed lies.

There is still a lot I don't know but I know their modus operandi and we have to stay on our toes.

Thanks for the links - it's a lot and will take me awhile to get through them but I'm always looking for new sources.

Mission21 · Nov 10, 2021

saintrose said:

Where do you read in Scripture that 'Israel is reformed as a nation in a single day'? Perhaps I am missing something.

I have been watching the fig tree signs and it looks to me as if the end is close. My understanding of the end times is still foggy so I'm grappling with trying to discern where in the end times we're at.

You have a point: every country lies in the lap of the wicked one. However I knew that there was a concerted attempt by the illuminati - who likely communicate directly with Satan - to deceive believers. I read that they were the ones who implemented the 'nation' of 'Israel' so I am very wary of any teaching that has to do with it.

We were forewarned of end times deception and I have an uneasy feeling about any pastor who is an Israel worshipper. There is a lot I don't understand yet but this makes sense to me:

What’s Wrong With Christian Zionism? – A Simple Summary
February 15, 2020 by YNightingale
Here’s a brief and simple summary of what’s wrong with Christian Zionism.
By Brandee Gorsline
Dispensationalism and the Christian Zionists it has created is possibly the biggest and mostly widely spread deception facing Christians today. (thanks to the Scofield bible). I don’t know of a single church that hasn’t fallen prey to this dangerous interpretation and teaching of scripture that was contrived in the early 1900’s. (Darby and some other “Brethren” started it in the 1800’s then it became wide spread and popular with the release of the Scofield bible in 1909 and began to be taught at the seminaries and in churches because of all the free bibles that were distributed purposefully to spread this false doctrine.)
Believers in Jesus looking for a brick and mortar temple….THIS IS ANOTHER GOSPEL! The other gospel that Jesus and the Apostles warned us about in the Gospels and the Epistles. The same false gospel of the first century Jews who rejected Jesus as Messiah because they were looking for an earthly kingdom with a flesh and blood king where Jews would rule over the entire world.
They denied and hated Jesus because He offered them His kingdom which He said is NOT of this world and flesh and blood cannot enter into it…A SPIRITUAL KINGDOM! It was not what they expected or wanted in their carnal, fleshly bodies so they rejected Him completely to the point of crucifying Him.
Christians today are falling for the same false gospel which is being preached Sunday after Sunday in the fundamentalist churches. An earthly kingdom where Jews who reject the Gospel of Jesus Christ miraculously get saved by some gospel OTHER than the good news of Jesus Christ. Jesus’ kingdom, the kingdom of God is WITHIN us…not here on earth where it can be observed with our eyes.
1 Corinthians 3:16
“Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?”
The Body of Christ is the Temple of God with Jesus being the cornerstone!!
Luke 17:20-21
“And when he (Jesus) was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.”

Good post.
---
I have been learning/studying about 'Zionism/Zionists'..
- For many years.

Omegatime · Nov 10, 2021

The word rapture just means the catching up of those alive at the time of the resurrection but the timing is debated forever it seems

ZNP · Nov 10, 2021

saintrose said:

Isaiah 66:8 8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

Jeremiah 30:3 3 The days are coming,’ declares the Lord, ‘when I will bring my people Israel and Judah back from captivity[a] and restore them to the land I gave their ancestors to possess,’ says the Lord.”

Isaiah 43:5-6“Fear not; for I am with thee. I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west. “I will say to the north, Give up; and to the south, Keep not back; bring my sons from far, and my daughters from the ends of the earth, even every one that is called by my name…”

Ezekiel 34:11-13 “Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out. “As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered, so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day. “And I will bring them out from the peoples, and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land…”

Deuteronomy 30:1-4 “And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, to which the Lord thy God hath driven thee, “And shalt return unto the Lord thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, “That then the Lord thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations where the Lord thy God hath scattered thee. “If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from there will the Lord thy God gather thee, and from there will he fetch thee.”

The valley of dry bones in Ezekiel 37

11 Then he said to me: “Son of man, these bones are the people of Israel. They say, ‘Our bones are dried up and our hope is gone; we are cut off.’ 12 Therefore prophesy and say to them: ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: My people, I am going to open your graves and bring you up from them; I will bring you back to the land of Israel. 13 Then you, my people, will know that I am the Lord, when I open your graves and bring you up from them. 14 I will put my Spirit in you and you will live, and I will settle you in your own land. Then you will know that I the Lord have spoken, and I have done it, declares the Lord.’”

kaylagrl · Nov 10, 2021

surfer14 said:

Reading about Scofield and who was funding him was a pretty big red pill for me. That was a part of how I opened my eyes to the jew and the infiltration of Christianity. But that isn't the biggest red pill... if you're ready for a super red pill, start watching this series. It's very, very thought provoking. I'd suggest starting at the beginning of the series.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLonegYXBrLbStENq_HPyOb4Qy9_qE3_2w

So you're "unbiased" source are Catholics?!

kaylagrl · Nov 10, 2021

saintrose said:

Where do you read in Scripture that 'Israel is reformed as a nation in a single day'? Perhaps I am missing something.

I have been watching the fig tree signs and it looks to me as if the end is close. My understanding of the end times is still foggy so I'm grappling with trying to discern where in the end times we're at.

You have a point: every country lies in the lap of the wicked one. However I knew that there was a concerted attempt by the illuminati - who likely communicate directly with Satan - to deceive believers. I read that they were the ones who implemented the 'nation' of 'Israel' so I am very wary of any teaching that has to do with it.

We were forewarned of end times deception and I have an uneasy feeling about any pastor who is an Israel worshipper. There is a lot I don't understand yet but this makes sense to me:

What’s Wrong With Christian Zionism? – A Simple Summary
February 15, 2020 by YNightingale
Here’s a brief and simple summary of what’s wrong with Christian Zionism.
By Brandee Gorsline
Dispensationalism and the Christian Zionists it has created is possibly the biggest and mostly widely spread deception facing Christians today. (thanks to the Scofield bible). I don’t know of a single church that hasn’t fallen prey to this dangerous interpretation and teaching of scripture that was contrived in the early 1900’s. (Darby and some other “Brethren” started it in the 1800’s then it became wide spread and popular with the release of the Scofield bible in 1909 and began to be taught at the seminaries and in churches because of all the free bibles that were distributed purposefully to spread this false doctrine.)
Believers in Jesus looking for a brick and mortar temple….THIS IS ANOTHER GOSPEL! The other gospel that Jesus and the Apostles warned us about in the Gospels and the Epistles. The same false gospel of the first century Jews who rejected Jesus as Messiah because they were looking for an earthly kingdom with a flesh and blood king where Jews would rule over the entire world.
They denied and hated Jesus because He offered them His kingdom which He said is NOT of this world and flesh and blood cannot enter into it…A SPIRITUAL KINGDOM! It was not what they expected or wanted in their carnal, fleshly bodies so they rejected Him completely to the point of crucifying Him.
Christians today are falling for the same false gospel which is being preached Sunday after Sunday in the fundamentalist churches. An earthly kingdom where Jews who reject the Gospel of Jesus Christ miraculously get saved by some gospel OTHER than the good news of Jesus Christ. Jesus’ kingdom, the kingdom of God is WITHIN us…not here on earth where it can be observed with our eyes.
1 Corinthians 3:16
“Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?”
The Body of Christ is the Temple of God with Jesus being the cornerstone!!
Luke 17:20-21
“And when he (Jesus) was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.”

And who is this person? What Biblical training do they have?

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