Gods Standard of Righteousness

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justbyfaith said:
I think that maybe you are not seeing the law as spiritual.

Jesus brought home to our hearts what adultery really is...lusting after a woman in our heart.

In the ten commandments, God the Father hinted at the spiritual nature of the law. Forst He told us not to steal; and a little bit later He told us not to covet.

He wanted us to meditate on the meaning of the law (Psalms 1).

Those who did, would understand the spiritual nature of the law...

That the outward requirements have a deeper meaning that apply to what is in the heart.

Such as, if you are angry with your brother without a cause; and say to him, "You idiot" or "You fool!" you are in all reality violating God's commandment of "Thou shalt not kill" and are in danger of the council or even of hell fire.

Now, when I speak of the law, I am speaking of every moral tenet in the Old and New Testaments.

In the New Testament, I believe that the law that governs us is exemplified in a set of vices that we are to avoid (Galatians 5:19-21) and virtues that we are to exemplify in opposition to those vices (Galatians 5:22-23). There is no law against such behaviour; so if we live according to these virtues and eschew the vices, we will be law-abiding citizens of the kingdom of heaven.

While it is the purpose of the law to show us that we are sinners in need of a Saviour, I don't think that it is its purpose to cause us to resign ourselves to the fact that we are sinners; and just give up on living a holy life. I believe that once we realize we are sinnerrs, that we need to repent of living a sinful lifestyle and begin to seek the Lord and His provision for living a holy life.

Mat 1:21, And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Tit 2:11, For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Tit 2:12, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
it 2:13, Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
TTit 2:14, Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
Tit 2:15, These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

Tit 3:3, For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
Tit 3:4, But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Tit 3:5, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Tit 3:6, Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Tit 3:7, That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
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I see the law for what it is
the schoolmaster that led me to Christ
 
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eternally-gratefull said:
The point your not getting is without the law we would not know we were cursed.
Your stuck on self righteousness. And have no capacity of understanding how sinful you really are
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Eliphaz said to Job,

Job 22:5, Is not thy wickedness great? and thine iniquities infinite?

yet this was God's testimony later,

Job 42:7, And it was so, that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.

Job's testimony:

Job 27:4, My lips shall not speak wickedness, nor my tongue utter deceit.
Job 27:5, God forbid that I should justify you: till I die I will not remove mine integrity from me.
Job 27:6
My righteousness I hold fast, and will not let it go: my heart shall not reproach me so long as I live.
Job 27:7, Let mine enemy be as the wicked, and he that riseth up against me as the unrighteous.
Job 27:8, For what is the hope of the hypocrite, though he hath gained, when God taketh away his soul?
 
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eternally-gratefull said:
Yes
UNTIL we look to the law
the. The truth if our sinfulness and unrighteousness flows
keep denying you are I righteous according to the law to your own detriment
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Of course I am righteous according to the law inasmuch as I walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit (Romans 8:4).
 
eternally-gratefull said:
I see the law for what it is
the schoolmaster that led me to Christ
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Are you certain that you have been led to Christ (see 2 Corinthians 13:5)?

Are you born of God according to the definition for that, that is given in 1 John 3:9, Proverbs 4:18?

Mat 1:21, And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Tit 2:14, Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Tit 3:3, For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
 
justbyfaith said:
Are you certain that you have been led to Christ (see 2 Corinthians 13:5)?

Are you born of God according to the definition for that, that is given in 1 John 3:9, Proverbs 4:18?

Mat 1:21, And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Tit 2:14, Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Tit 3:3, For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
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I know I have eternal life. Not conditional life

My faith is based on Christ his work and his promise
My hope is based on the fact I have eternal life
again you have nothing to offer me so I will bid you good day. God will break your pride one day I know it. I just pray in this lifetime
 
eternally-gratefull said:
Yes
UNTIL we look to the law
the. The truth if our sinfulness and unrighteousness

.....
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we don't have to look at the Law to know, our conscience can condemn us daily... or not.

imagine if you will that there was no Bible... what would a person do to know right from wrong?

they could be taught it by their family, tribe, society -- things learned over time -- some societies, tribes, families better, more righteous than others others. and/ or.... probably both --

he could learn right from wrong -- from his conscience.
 
Charlie24 said:
Gods standard of righteousness is and always has been the moral Law, the Ten Commandments. The problem for fallen man is that he can't keep that Law of his own ability. Jesus told the Jews in John 7:19,

"Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?"

Man can't save himself by keeping the Laws of God on his own, he needs a Saviour!

At first thought it would seem unreasonable for God to demand that man keep His Law when man can't of his own accord. If man is honest with himself he will admit and know he cannot keep the Law on his own. This brings us to God's plan for man, justification by faith in Jesus Christ.

There are three parts of the Law of Moses, the moral Law -- the Ten Commandments, the civil Law, and the sacrificial Law. The apostle Paul tells us "the Law was our schoolmaster that points us to Christ."

Gal. 3:24-25,

"Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster."

The sacrificial system of the Law is what pointed to Christ, the great sacrifice for mans sins that he can be justified by faith in the sight of God. Those under the Law of Moses were saved NOT by their ability to keep the Law, but by faith in the coming Messiah through the sacrifice of an animal that represented Christ.

This sacrifice began in the Garden of Eden when Adam and Eve fell and was present throughout the entirety of the Old Testament. With Christ hidden in type and shadows in the Old Testament through this sacrifice, He is revealed to us by the Apostles in the New Covenant through the Holy Spirit.

John the Baptist told us, "Behold the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world." John is speaking here of the Great Sacrifice that Christ made for man to be justified by faith in Christ's death and resurrection, not by his own merits in keeping the Law, which man cannot do anyway but by faith in Christ.

This brings us to how man keeps the Law in the sight of God! Jesus told us in Matt. 5:17,

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."

Christ kept the Law in every aspect for us, He fulfilled the Law which we could not do on our own. Paul tells us why Christ did this for us.

Rom. 8:3-4,

"For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

Man cannot keep the righteousness of the Law on his own, so Christ fulfilled the Law for us, in that, by faith in His sacrifice the Holy Spirit will fulfill the righteousness of the Law in us. This is done by faith in Christ and denying the ability of our flesh to do it ourselves.
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So then after saying all this I have a question for you.
God's standard of righteousness, Jesus the Christ, stated that you are to pick up your own cross and deny yourself and follow Him.
What is the purpose of your own cross and what is it that you are to deny yourself from in order to follow the righteousness of God?
 
justbyfaith said:
That is because you are rejecting the righteousness that I offer to you from the Lord as free gift (Romans 5:15-17).
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"w a k e u p s l e e p e r, o p e n y o u r e y e s "

we can be very asleep to why exactly we believe things... to roadblocks in our thinking and spiritual progress. we can stop progressing... accept things the way they are... the way we /think/ we should be (lieve)... preventing ourselves from learning more.
 
Blik said:
From the day Adam and Eve fell God gave all people grace. There is no truth in any person being able to attain salvation under the law, not ever.

Read Lev. 17:11 that says God gave blood on the altar for the atonement of souls. They were given the sacrificial system telling them blood must be shed for their forgiveness. Just as it is today, if a gentile ever put himself under law for salvation, it failed. It failed then and it fails now.
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yeah I agree no one under the law can attain salvstion there’s no
Life in it I was responding to this

“For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:18-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus said this to Jews who were all under the law , and as he was preaching the kingdom to them but before he died and fulfilled the law which was the point

the law of Moses was Israel’s law it isn’t a law for Gentiles they were told that before the covenant was changed was my point and they were all beholden to it by circumcision

all was fulfilled after Jesus died and rose and the word was then Christs testimony alone

“And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:44-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

my point was that Moses law isn’t Christian doctrine but the gospel of the kingdom is Christian doctrine

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭

the law was fulfilled in Christ and he sent forth the gospel Jesus told Jews beholden already to the law about keeping it was my only
Point there Christians are told we’re dead to the law but alive in the gospel
 
eternally-gratefull said:
The tablets of stone are that law. They were stuck in the ark, along with arrons’s rod that budded and the manna.
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You are coming so much closer to explaining how God thinks of the law, but I think the ten commandments, if we see them in truth, are still active, they are to be looked at as a blessed guides not instruments of death.

Scripture tells us this is the way it is. When the law was written on our hearts the law was not changed. It was the same law the ten commandments gave, delivered to our hearts--or in other words given with the love that the commandments were based on except in stone that distorted them.

Christ explained the difference in the sermon on the mount--Christ told of the law in stone. Christ did not say that law was cancelled, Christ explained that law as it was in our hearts as the actual law.
 
justbyfaith said:
The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus is this: that if we walk according to the Spirit rather than the flesh, the righteousness of the law will be fulfilled in us (Romans 8:4).

If the law of sin and death were the ten commandments, then we would be walking in sin and death if we simply love one another.

Rom 13:8, Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9, For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10, Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
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Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

2 Corinthians 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:



The Law of sin and death. Written and engraven on stones. Which is the ten commandments.


I don't think it gets any clearer than that.
 
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eternally-gratefull said:
Yes by faith,

not by following the law like your buddy keeps preaching
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I don't think he's following the Law, e-g. I think he is discussing in detail the title of his thread, "our new relationship with the Law."

That relationship is in Christ being that the Law was kept through Him.
 
eternally-gratefull said:
Thats the whole point

The tablets of stone where the ministers of death.

When a dependent stands in front of a judge, the law is handed to him, The guilty party is the one who broke the law. And a sentence is passed down.

The tablets of stone are that law. They were stuck in the ark, along with arrons’s rod that budded and the manna.

They proved the guilt of the people. The cherub on both sides of the ark looked down on the things in the ark. And the judgment was guilty
When the priest took the blood and covered the opening to the ark. the cherub saw the blood. They did not see the ministers of death inside the ark. Hence it is said the sin of the people was “covered”

if peopel would actually sit down and do an indepth study of the law they would see how complex and deep it is and how every aspect of it should have led the people of Israel to see its messiah when he came

Sadly. Like so many today. We have so many that CLAIM they understand it. But are lost to what it really is, and they rejected their messiah, because they did not understand they law. They twisted it to their own proud version. Thinking they could keep it and in turn denied Christ and God
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This is the exact reason the Law should be discussed! I know everyone gets tired of it, I know I do.

Paul told us that we establish the Law, this is because of Christ fulfilling the Law and is fulfilled in us by faith, not by our own works.

Even being saved fallen man can't keep the Law, but by faith in Christ who did keep the Law, we are seen as perfect Law-keepers in His sight.

This should be discussed, it will help folks understand where the believer stands with the Law, imo.
 
peachyking said:
So then after saying all this I have a question for you.
God's standard of righteousness, Jesus the Christ, stated that you are to pick up your own cross and deny yourself and follow Him.
What is the purpose of your own cross and what is it that you are to deny yourself from in order to follow the righteousness of God?
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Matt. 16:24

"Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me."

This verse has confused many down through the centuries!

In order to follow Christ and be led of the Spirit as Paul told us we must do, you have to give up all your abilities of your own strength to obey God and allow Christ to live through you, then the Spirit will bring forth the fruits of the Spirit in your life. Living a Christian life is denying your abilities to follow Christ and yielding to Christ every single day.

This is what Jesus means by "deny himself." You are denying that you can do it and trusting that He will live righteousness through you.

"Taking up the Cross" is taking advantage of what Christ did for us on the Cross, it means to trust in Christ, believe that He died for your sins and brought you back into relationship with God. This is the faith we have that His righteousness will be fulfilled in us.
 
Charlie24 said:
Matt. 16:24

"Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me."

This verse has confused many down through the centuries!

In order to follow Christ and be led of the Spirit as Paul told us we must do,.
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No No No
I do not follow anyone but Jesus. I do what Jesus told me to do.

What did Jesus tell you to do?

That is what you are to do. Jesus is the way the truth and the life not anyone else.
 
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