What are you thoughts on Annihilation?
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Satan and his angels, yes. But somehow, you forgot fallen unredeemed men. How could that possibly be Magenta? I mean you have been's commenting on this thread for quite some time now...right?
Remember Matthew 25:41? It is been posted numerous times as a confirmation and link between the lake of fire, fallen angels, Satan and unredeemed men. This utterance by Jesus clearly states that all three parties end up at the same place.
A lot of people wish that verse wasn't there.
I know all about that particular Greek term in John 3:16. Far from not touching it, I fully understand it.....
you have sidestepped the fact that there is no pain in eternity. Are you just going to ignore that?
Yep, you did side step it again. That's just more evidence eternal torture is wrong because they can't accept that scripture says no pain exists in the eternity. Their doctrine teaches pain exists forever, which is not true. False doctrines always contradict scripture.
You must live on a different planet.
John 3:19
"And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil."
John 7:7
"The world cannot hate you, but it hates Me, because I testify that its works are evil."
Romans 3: 10 -12
As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one. There is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one.”…
If people were so attracted to love, how come they crucified the epitome of love? There were 120 people in the Upper Room. Jesus appeared to 500 at one place. Israel's population was around 4.5 million. Not much of a reward for 3-1/2 years of ministry.
The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. Yes, Christians need a revelation of God's love. But it is also a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God. What good parent would refuse to discipline their children? I know this generation refuses to do much about kid's wrong behaviour. It's why two teenage girls attempted to murder a schoolteacher a few days ago here in Australia. There is little respect for authority. That means little respect for God. People need to know that there are consequences for rebellion. Otherwise they will stay in their wicked ways.
Yes, there is the death penalty at the extreme end of punishment for the worst behaviors, and surely that is a deterrent to at least some who may otherwise consider trying to get away with some dastardly deed, but we still have people saying death is nothing to fear when that flies in the face of what Scripture says in Hebrews 2:15, where the fear of death is the root of man's slavery (to sin). That means all humanity.
You sound like a very angry person, so perhaps that why you prefer a God people would be terrified of--I was speaking of what would be the reason one would be drawn to salvation--no one is drawn to salvation by fear. Your argument has nothing at all to do with what I posted. And your analogy of a parent disciplining their child is extremely weak---would you TORTURE your Child endlessly with fire as punishment?
Do you not believe Jesus paid the penalty in FULL by His DEATH on the Cross?
Your reasoning is Precisely why the Roman Catholic church adopted this diabolical myth from the pagans--ultimately they were puppets in the hand of Satan--
"But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves."--2Peter 2:1
The fear of God--is NOT TERROR---it is for those who already KNOW Him--it is a reverence for who He is.
Yeah......I'm pretty sure that God made the Israelites purposefully terrified during the events of Exodus 19 and 20. Same goes for the incident of the golden calf and the Korah rebellion.
And people are and have been saved through sheer white knuckled terror of the Lord all the time lady. And same goes during the time of Jesus time of ministry on the earth too.
Are you some kind of a psychiatrist or something? Good luck with that. Tool of the devil if you ask me.
This is what the LORD says: “The people who survived the sword found favor in the wilderness when Israel went to find rest.” Again I will build you, and you will be rebuilt, O Virgin Israel. Again you will take up your tambourines and go out in joyful dancing.
Deuteronomy 4:37
Because He loved your fathers, He chose their descendants after them
and brought you out of Egypt by His presence and great power,
Deuteronomy 7:8
But because the LORD loved you and kept the oath He swore to your fathers, He brought you out with
a mighty hand and redeemed you from the house of slavery, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
Psalm 25:6
Remember, O LORD, Your compassion and loving devotion, for they are from age to age.
Hosea 11:4
I led them with cords of kindness, with ropes of love; I lifted
the yoke from their necks and bent down to feed them.
The enemies of God were not tortured, but destroyed.
Deuteronomy 4:37
Because He loved your fathers, He chose their descendants after them
and brought you out of Egypt by His presence and great power,
Deuteronomy 7:8
But because the LORD loved you and kept the oath He swore to your fathers, He brought you out with
a mighty hand and redeemed you from the house of slavery, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
Psalm 25:6
Remember, O LORD, Your compassion and loving devotion, for they are from age to age.
Hosea 11:4
I led them with cords of kindness, with ropes of love; I lifted
the yoke from their necks and bent down to feed them.
The enemies of God were not tortured, but destroyed.
Well I'm delighted that I was convicted of my sin and that I would face a perfect, holy and righteous God as a sinner. I'd never read the Bible, but my response was exactly the same as the crowd on the day of Pentecost. I was cut to the heart. And I asked, "What must I do?"
You plainly do not know what death is. When did Adam die? When he disobeyed God. Physical death came nearly a thousand years later. I've been saved 50 years and I've heard the annihilation and universal salvation arguments before. And rejected them as I do now.
All mankind is born dead in trespass and sin. They still exist. Your gospel is flawed and unbiblical. It does not account for the wickedness of mankind and rejects the word when it contradicts you. That's a recipe for false doctrine and gives false hope to the wicked.
What must one do? Confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. Do you know what death is? Plainly it is a cessation of being. Do not call this living death we were born into the same as physical death nor equate it with the second death. You have zero basis for doing so. Affirming what Scripture states from beginning to end, that the wages of sin is death, is not a false gospel. How or why you come to that conclusion is indicative of a willingness to slander those you disagree with. Believing in the destruction of the wicked does not affect any other doctrine concerning Who Jesus is and why He incarnated. On the other hand, believing the wicked have an immortal soul flies in the face of what Scripture explicitly states.
"All mankind is born dead in trespass and sin."
not born that way maybe... but later on maybe. effects of the world... and becoming -- not as a Child (alive, present, innocent, unknowing).
first we are very very young... babies. the Bible tells us we must become as a Child in order to enter the Kingdom. maybe this a Mystery..................... how exactly is a Child?
That is something people say, while Scripture states that we are born enemies of God and hostile to Him.
All of us also lived among them at one time, fulfilling the cravings of our flesh and
indulging its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature children of wrath.
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
"You must be born again."
Physical death has never been the punishment for sin--it is the second death at the resurrection and judgment that is the punishment--which is listed 4 times in Revelation.
You say [annihilation] doesn't account for the wickedness of mankind ? Yes it does--the scripture says "the wicked will be DESTROYED."
If someone lives 25 years and sins a sum total of one year out of those 25 and another lives 50 and sins a sum total of 5 years--do you seriously think it is a just sentence to burn them and have them be agony for all eternity? Are you kidding?
Being so called 'saved' 50 years is irrelevant--you have spent those 50 years believing a lie--a pagan myth that says God is Evil and Jesus didn't pay the penalty for our sins by dying on the cross--that is if you believe Eternal Conscious Torment is the actual penalty--we are at the 1400 mark on these posts--please go back and read the hundreds of posts and RATIONAL arguments on the Annhilationist side--then compare to the ETC'ers--filled with opinions, rudeness, multiple cut and paste from the Strongs Concordance AND the same handful of verses. e.g. 'tormented day and night forever and ever--sheesh. That is in REVELATIONS which is filled with figurative language and imagery--the LITERAL verses say over and over an over again DEATH and DESTRUCTION is the unbelievers end. We have posted a MOUNTAIN of scriptures that support this in comparison of the ETC'ers ant hill of FIGURATIVE verses. In fact when asked if they believed the literal verses they would not respond. When asked to give LITERAL verses they did not respond. Why? Because there aren't any.
Actually you are the one that believes and supports a lie--the doctrine of demons the scripture speaks of --it also say not to "turn aside to myths. As I've said before and I'll say again--it's as if you ETC'ers have NO access to the Holy Scriptures--the ignorance and blindness to the truth is astounding.
Dead means DEAD. Nowhere does God say to Adam--you wil die SPIRITUALLY--on the day he ate of the tree of knowledge and good and evil he received a DEATH SENTENCE--it's the same as the expression "Dead Man Walking"--a person could be on death row 50 years--they received the death sentence when the Judge decreed it.
You guys are completely brainwashed by your denominational beliefs and don't even take 5 minutes to critically review what is right their in front of you.
"Jesus said, “If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains."--John 9:41
-Cast into outer darkness
-Cast into the lake of fire
-Cast into Gehenna fire
-Eternal punishment
-Tortured with fire and brimstone in the presence of the angels and of the lamb (Rev 14:10)
-The smoke of their torment rises up for ever and ever and they have no rest day or night (Rev 14:11)
-Their is not quenched and their worm dies not
-Weeping and gnashing of teeth
Sounds very painful and very busy. Nothing like the quiet, comforting repose a peaceful annihilationist death would bring. And that is an awful lot of ironclad Scripture that needs to be ignored. Are we as Christians to ignore these Scriptures when preaching? You be the judge.
A strange idea.
There is no eternal suffering for those who have been saved from it, obviously.
That blessing doesn't extend to the realm prepared for the devil.
Then you understand those who believe in God's Son will have eternal life and those who don't believe in God's Son will perish and not have eternal life.
When someone you are preaching to asks, "Hey, what does perish mean?" Do you show them this definition?
G622 apollumi
apollumi: to destroy, destroy utterly
Original Word: ἀπόλλυμι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: apollumi
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-ol'-loo-mee)
Definition: to destroy, destroy utterly
Usage: (a) I kill, destroy, (b) I lose, mid: I am perishing (the resultant death being viewed as certain).
Or do you insist they do not perish, but instead live forever in hell? I think I know the answer. We have a solemn duty to be honest in our preaching of the word. As a preacher, I know for a fact God is watching.
Friend....did you care to read this which I earlier posted? I would like your response to these Greek terms that do not support a quiet...or not so quiet BODILY death.
-Cast into outer darkness
-Cast into the lake of fire
-Cast into Gehenna fire
-Eternal fire
-Eternal punishment
-"torture us before the appointed time"
-Tortured with fire and brimstone in the presence of the angels and of the lamb (Rev 14:10)
-The smoke of their torture rises up for ever and ever and they have no rest day or night (Rev 14:11)
-Their is not quenched and their worm dies not
-Weeping and gnashing of teeth
Lucy,
"There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away." ...."Behold, I am making everything new!"--Revelation 21:4
The old order will pass away--it says plainly NO MORE! EVERYTHING is made new.
There is no separate realm for Satan, that is merely symbolic language--he is a spiritual being therefore would never be able to burn eternally--God will speak Him out of existence--just as He spoke the world into existence. All of Revelation is a VISION john sees, some of which the Angel interprets. Do you still not understand figurative language even though Revelation states 4 times the Lake of Fire IS the SECOND DEATH?
Do you not have a copy of the Holy Scriptures? If you do, then you might consider reading it--and taking off your doctrinal lens before doing so--you will be shocked and dismayed to see how the truth was there all the time, but you hadn't bothered to look for it.