Why Are Women Expected to be the Gatekeepers of Virginity?

[tourist]

actually I really like beets...the greens when cooked are better than spinach

I love vegetables

So do I but not too fond of beets. I tolerate fresh cooked beet but Aunt Nellie's beets in a jar make me gag.

 

[Lynx]

So do I but not too fond of beets. I tolerate fresh cooked beet but Aunt Nellie's beets in a jar make me gag.

Did she use a lot of vinegar and sugar, aka pickled beets?

 

[JohnDB]

Did she use a lot of vinegar and sugar, aka pickled beets?

Pickled beets are ok...but the balance is difficult to hit right. Too many go too strong with both vinegar and then try to balance it with sugar.

Sometimes less is more.

Beets themselves have a very "earthy" flavor to begin with...lightening it up for pickling is needed. You can offset some of that with some spices or herbs is good.

 

[SophieT]

So do I but not too fond of beets. I tolerate fresh cooked beet but Aunt Nellie's beets in a jar make me gag.

never had those

thanks for the warning

 

[JesusLives]

Hey Everyone,

This thread was inspired by a conversation with a friend about church culture, as well as reading through some posts here in a thread about The Purity Culture (though I haven't had a chance to watch the video that was shared.)

I grew up in WELS Lutheran schools, and while I can't remember the pastors or teachers ever explicitly saying this (because sex was never talked about except not to have anything to do with it unless you were married,) but my home church had a very strongly implied culture that although abstinence was preached, women in particular were shouldered with the responsibility of making sure nothing improper happened.

I can't remember anyone specifically saying this, but you could definitely feel the air of "GOOD girls put up walls and surround them with barbed wire, electric fences; BAD girls are loose and do all those horrible things that a GOOD girl would NEVER do."

How was this so strongly imprinted without every being specifically stated?

I have often talked about how if a girl became pregnant at my Lutheran high school, the mothers were kept from coming back. In the one case that happened while I was there, the mother could not come back, but the father finished out his time at the school. The mother was heavily condemned amongst the gossiping circles, but I never heard anything about the father.


In a similar fashion, other kids talked about other girls who were supposedly "doing things" with their boyfriends (you always heard about how "bad" the girls were -- never the boys,) and by listening to how the adults talked about single and divorced mothers (which was something very strongly condemned in the underground currents of my home church.) Any girl or woman who was suspected of "immoral behavior" was openly whispered about (I realize this phrase is an oxymoron but it's extremely fitting,) and there was absolutely no mention or judgment of the men involved.

Now, let me be clear in that I am NOT in any way, shape, or form trying to knock the men here.

But as I've said in many other threads, the popular boys at my Lutheran high school were known for bragging about going to the local strip club every weekend, and one openly showed off the condoms he kept in his wallet. But no one seemed to pay any mind to that or ever say anything derogatory about them -- other kids saw them as the cool rebels whom others aspired to be like and be with.

I've always found it to be an intriguing, albeit disturbing phenomenon within even the church culture that women are always seen as the ones to say no, stop anything from going to far, and being responsible for holding the key to the gates of sexual morality. Now I realize that this attitude has a very long social history and culture outside the church as well.

But why is it still like this within the church?

* Why isn't there more emphasis on the equal role of both men and women to remain morally sound and keep things that way? Why does even the church hold on to old-fashioned beliefs that it's mostly the woman's fault if something happens?

Or maybe that's just the church culture I'VE been raised in. If yours has been different, please tell us about it! I would actually be very relieved to hear that I'm in the minority and that everyone else's churches hold both men and women equally responsible.

* In your experience, how much emphasis is put on boys saying "No," "Stop," and "I Won't Do That"?

* Why are women more seriously punished for sexual sins?

Again, I would love to hear examples that counter my own experiences. I grew up listening to church people wagging their tongues about, for example, a divorced mother whose daughter I went to school with, and the women I heard talking about her claimed that the mother had "a revolving door for men." (I was so young at the time that I thought this mean an actual revolving door that was installed into the side of their house.)

I have no idea if this was true or not about the woman's personal life or not, and I'm not sure that the people who talked about her really knew, either.

But I can't recall that I have ever heard anyone in my church environments talk about a single father having a revolving door for women, whether or not it was true.

* Why is this, and what have your experiences been?

* Did God really intend for sexual morality to rest more heavily upon women's shoulders?

* This is NOT meant to be a He Vs. She thread at all -- to me, it's not so much about gender, but rather, what we're taught about the different genders, is it Biblically sound, and how can this be changed if needed?

Aside from the sex thing being a woman's responsibility in my experience of life as a woman... there are many more areas they expect more out of us. Or women as a whole are treated as second class citizens.

I remember as a teen going to the bank with my first husband Mike to try and get a loan for a house we had found the bank would not count my salary toward the loan. I asked why not? Because I was told you might get pregnant... I said so what? Well you won't work and I said that is ridiculous because I would go back to work after the baby is born. The bank refused to give us the loan and I said to the person....your bank will never see a dime of my money and we left.

I am not sure the why of why women have to prove more, be more, do more than the rest of the population and no it isn't fair the expectations that are placed on us. But I have found in my own life these obstacles placed in my path have made me stronger, more determined to get things done and also to try and be fair toward others along the way.

We did buy a house at 18 and 19 years of age my first husband and I, but we had to assume a mortgage to do it. As they say there are more ways to skinning a cat than choking it to death on butter... ( please don't be offended as I love cats and there are three in the house.) just an old saying...very old...kind of like me...

Men are just as accountable for a girl getting pregnant, but generally not held to the same ridicule that the women get. But this one thing I do know is that God holds each equally accountable and doesn't play favorites and I can live with that knowledge knowing if they don't get the same treatment here they will still have to stand and answer at the end. As we all will have to do.

Thanks be to Jesus that He has paid the price for our sins and we have Him as our way out of the messes we get ourselves into. God is fair and just and we can all rest in Him and His promises to us. He is who I look to for fairness and justice.

 

[tourist]

Did she use a lot of vinegar and sugar, aka pickled beets?

Who, Aunt Nellie? Not sure what's in 'em. My wife just boiled sliced fresh beets in water. No pickling.

 

[Lynx]

Not sure what this has to do with beets.

Oh come on! We let... uh, certain people... go on long tangents about how unfair society is toward men. Surely we can allow this mild digression.

Sure it's not about beets, but it didn't last long. We got back on the proper beet thread topic quickly.

 

[17Bees]

actually I really like beets...the greens when cooked are better than spinach

I love vegetables

Yeah, the beets can be cooked with the greens, add whatever seasonings suit you and cook it all in chicken stock under medium heat for about two hours, then throw it all out and eat the pan.

 

[Lynx]

Yeah, the beets can be cooked with the greens, add whatever seasonings suit you and cook it all in chicken stock under medium heat for about two hours, then throw it all out and eat the pan.

Sounds like a recipe I heard about for roadrunner chili. It has ingredients like tomato sauce, beans, various spices, two roadrunners and three cases of beer.

You drink one case of beer while the chili is cooking. Then you feed the chili to the roadrunners, sit back and enjoy the rest of the beer.

 

[tourist]

actually I really like beets...the greens when cooked are better than spinach

I love vegetables

I've had beet greens and enjoyed them. Love spinach. I squeeze lemon or a dash of malt vinegar on top.

 

[SomeDisciple]

People make generalizations. Men are blamed more often blamed for domestic violence and other violent behavior... it is what it is.

When I was in the Navy, during a sexual assault training we were taught that if a woman was under the influence of alcohol then having sex with her was automatically rape because she cannot give consent when she is drinking- this applies whether or not you have also been drinking. Apparently the man's consent doesn't matter.

There was also a period of time where men had to stand all the overnight watches on my ship in a shipyard because women were at risk of sexual assault at night. But "women can do everything men can do, and they don't need special treatment"... Yep.

With respect to religious educational organizations- if you get pregnant... they're going to want you to actually raise your kids. Imagine that. If you're a man, they want you to stay so you can provide for your kids. Gender roles exist- particularly within marriage and family. Now, these days, my beloved country likes to pretend that's not the case, and that we can define our own reality... and to an extent, we can, but if you want to go against what naturally works and you fail, then don't blame God, blame yourself.

 

[Gojira]

Just to clarify, so you are saying (assuming) that women sleep with several men, and that they usually fall in love with one of the first ones they sleep with (again, assuming that women are sleeping with more than one man,) and then become hopelessly attached to one of the first ones they've slept with? But that "all the rest" just become a number?

I'm curious.

How do you believe it works for men who sleep with multiple women? Do they fall in love? Do the women become numbers to them?

I'm trying to figure out if you're saying that:

You believe women sleep around more than men, and women are prone to falling in love/becoming obsessed with one of these first few men (?)

You believe that men who sleep with around don't fall in love to the point or become attached to the extent that women do (?)

Are you saying that you believe women who sleep with several men become hopelessly attached, but men who sleep with several women are just capable (or "better") at getting up and walking away?

In that case, how is it that the women don't "just become a number" to them?

I personally think it's fairly equal for both men and women who are choosing to sleep around.

And this is just my experience, but often the girl the guys can't get over is the one who was the best-looking of the ones they've dated, and they're worried they won't ever find someone "that hot" again.

Ha... I learned some time ago how easy it is to step in poop in forums like this (and in real life) and have since learned to a) know my audience, and b) watch my words.

 

[Gojira]

People make generalizations. Men are blamed more often blamed for domestic violence and other violent behavior... it is what it is.

When I was in the Navy, during a sexual assault training we were taught that if a woman was under the influence of alcohol then having sex with her was automatically rape because she cannot give consent when she is drinking- this applies whether or not you have also been drinking. Apparently the man's consent doesn't matter.

There was also a period of time where men had to stand all the overnight watches on my ship in a shipyard because women were at risk of sexual assault at night. But "women can do everything men can do, and they don't need special treatment"... Yep.

With respect to religious educational organizations- if you get pregnant... they're going to want you to actually raise your kids. Imagine that. If you're a man, they want you to stay so you can provide for your kids. Gender roles exist- particularly within marriage and family. Now, these days, my beloved country likes to pretend that's not the case, and that we can define our own reality... and to an extent, we can, but if you want to go against what naturally works and you fail, then don't blame God, blame yourself.

Yeah... that nasty objective reality thing. Always getting in the way of my party.

 

[SophieT]

I've had beet greens and enjoyed them. Love spinach. I squeeze lemon or a dash of malt vinegar on top.

yup

 

[SophieT]

Yeah, the beets can be cooked with the greens, add whatever seasonings suit you and cook it all in chicken stock under medium heat for about two hours, then throw it all out and eat the pan.

well, if that's your taste in food....

 

[Gojira]

well, if that's your taste in food....

uh-greed..

Not a fan of the beet... in any form. I have though in my older years developed a taste for asparagus.

 

[SophieT]

uh-greed..

Not a fan of the beet... in any form. I have though in my older years developed a taste for asparagus.

I eat that too...but I prefer the little skinny ones and not the adults

don't care for those collard greens though. not really a southern girl

 

[Gojira]

I eat that too...but I prefer the little skinny ones and not the adults

don't care for those collard greens though. not really a southern girl

Too bitter.

 

[Lynx]

If'n they's too bittah, ya ain't picken 'em right er ya ain't cooken 'em right.

 

[tourist]

uh-greed..

Not a fan of the beet... in any form. I have though in my older years developed a taste for asparagus.

Absolutely asparagus.