The Falling Away - pre-trib rapture or ???

[DavidTree]

"Pre-trib rapture" IN NO WAY divides "the body of Christ"... (tho Abs does hold to the "partial rapture theory," which I would say such an idea does have such an effect).

I've constantly maintained that the "Rapture" pertains SOLELY TO (to/for/about) "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" (Eph1:20-23 WHEN [as to its existence]<--which fact you disagree with); that is ALL members of "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" [ALL those having come to faith "in this present age [singular]"] WILL GO in the "Rapture" (which occurs ONLY ONCE, at ONE POINT IN TIME)...

The "Rapture" does NOT pertain to all other saints of all OTHER time periods (not to OT saints, not to Trib saints, not to MK saints; and no, you cannot be an OT saint even if you cry and scream and say, "but I WANNABE!!" The fact is, you are not one. You did not come to faith in and during that time period, see... They did though... I mean, those that did, did )

Since pre-trib never came out of the mouth of God - it is falsehood and divides.

This post of yours #1040, right now, is a prime example.

Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar.

Why do yo find it so difficult to lay hold of the Eternal Commandment = Duet 4:1-2, Proverbs 30:5-6, Revelation 22:18-19

What you should do is constantly maintain what we are commanded = the word of the LORD = 1 Thess 1:10 , 4:13-18 , 2 Thess 2 , 1 John 2 , 1 Timothy 4:1 , Revelation ch6, 7, 14, 19, 20

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Re: my Post #958 -

TheDivineWatermark said:
To be clear to the readers (regarding my previous post): there is only ONE "RAPTURE"... but more than one "harvest"... they are NOT EQUATED!

... in case the readers assumed so, from my post.

[the "WHEAT" harvest is harvested by means of a "tribulum" (harvesting implement), for example... NOT SO regarding the EARLIER harvest which is harvested, instead, by means of "TOSSING UP INTO THE AIR, and BLOWING away the chaff"; We/"the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" are not the "WHEAT"]

...

where do you find that?
Where the barley is not trodden broken up prior to the winnowing?

I thought both were trodden first.
I really am not sure

Here's what I see:


B-D-B -

STRONGS H2219: [Ruth 3:2 "winnoweth" (barley)]

† [זָרָה] verb scatter, fan, winnow (Arabic ذَرا cause to fly, scatter (of wind), winnow; Aramaic דְּרָא, axRD; Ethiopic ዘረወ፡ —



H7371 - [1x; Isa30:24]

Strong's Concordance
rachath: winnowing shovel
Original Word: רַחַת
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: rachath
Phonetic Spelling: (rakh'-ath)
Definition: winnowing shovel



Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
shovel
From ruwach [H7306]; a winnowing-fork (as blowing the chaff away) -- shovel.
see HEBREW ruwach [H7306 (see below)]




[see] H7306 -
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
accept, smell, touch, make of quick understanding
A primitive root; properly, to blow, i.e. Breathe; only (literally) to smell or (by implication, perceive (figuratively, to anticipate, enjoy) -- accept, smell, X touch, make of quick understanding.


____________

So in another passage, Isaiah 28:25,27, about the "fitches" and "cummin"... it says, "the fitches are not threshed [TRODDEN - H1758] with a threshing-sledge [H2742 - sharp (of threshing implement) - https://biblehub.com/hebrew/2742.htm ]... " (which I'm pointing out the DISTINCTION between the harvesting / threshing implements... see that?)

 

[DavidTree]

Re: my Post #958 -



...



Here's what I see:


B-D-B -

STRONGS H2219: [Ruth 3:2 "winnoweth" (barley)]

† [זָרָה] verb scatter, fan, winnow (Arabic ذَرا cause to fly, scatter (of wind), winnow; Aramaic דְּרָא, axRD; Ethiopic ዘረወ፡ —



H7371 - [1x; Isa30:24]

Strong's Concordance
rachath: winnowing shovel
Original Word: רַחַת
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: rachath
Phonetic Spelling: (rakh'-ath)
Definition: winnowing shovel



Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
shovel
From ruwach [H7306]; a winnowing-fork (as blowing the chaff away) -- shovel.
see HEBREW ruwach [H7306 (see below)]




[see] H7306 -
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
accept, smell, touch, make of quick understanding
A primitive root; properly, to blow, i.e. Breathe; only (literally) to smell or (by implication, perceive (figuratively, to anticipate, enjoy) -- accept, smell, X touch, make of quick understanding.


____________

So in another passage, Isaiah 28:25,27, about the "fitches" and "cummin"... it says, "the fitches are not threshed [TRODDEN - H1758] with a threshing-sledge [H2742 - sharp (of threshing implement) - https://biblehub.com/hebrew/2742.htm ]... " (which I'm pointing out the DISTINCTION between the harvesting / threshing implements... see that?)

And this is where you slip up and go down the wrong path.

Stay with this = JOHN 4

Jesus explained, “My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me and to finish His work.
Do you not say, ‘There are still four months until the harvest’? I tell you, lift up your eyes and look at the fields, for they are ripe for harvest.

Already the reaper draws his wages and gathers a crop for eternal life, so that the sower and the reaper may rejoice together. For in this case the saying ‘One sows and another reaps’ is true. I sent you to reap what you have not worked for; others have done the hard work, and now you have taken up their labor.”

Since the LORD said "Do not say" - don't attempt to maneuver around His command.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ In John 4, Jesus is covering the Subject of "the Samaritans" (see v.4 and v.9 and v.23 and v.28 and vv.36,38 and v.39, for example).

Completely distinct Subject (not covering the Subject we are discussing here ; ) ).



[Jesus was talking with His disciples about "the Samaritans" and making a point thusly (about their then-present-day things... "white already to harvest").]

 

[FreeGrace2]

"Pre-trib rapture" IN NO WAY divides "the body of Christ"... (tho Abs does hold to the "partial rapture theory," which I would say such an idea does have such an effect).

I've constantly maintained that the "Rapture" pertains SOLELY TO (to/for/about) "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" (Eph1:20-23 WHEN [as to its existence]<--which fact you disagree with); that is ALL members of "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" [ALL those having come to faith "in this present age [singular]"] WILL GO in the "Rapture" (which occurs ONLY ONCE, at ONE POINT IN TIME)...

Explain who belongs to Him and who doesn't belong to Him in 1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

@DavidTree ,

^ In John 4, Jesus is covering the Subject of "the Samaritans" (see v.4 and v.9 and v.23 and v.28 and vv.36,38 and v.39, for example).
Completely distinct Subject (not covering the Subject we are discussing here ; ) ).

[Jesus was talking with His disciples about "the Samaritans" and making a point thusly (about their then-present-day things... "white already to harvest").]

One of the CONTEXTS covering the "eschatological" Subjects we are presenty discussing in this thread, is the following passage (notice some of the differences between this passage and the Subject being covered in John 4):


Mat 13:39
The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world [/the end of the AGE]; and the reapers are the angels.


Mat 13:40
As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this ['this' SPECIFIC one being referred to here] world [/AGE].


Mat 13:41
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall *gather [G4816] out of [ek] his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

[* G4816 - "to collect in order to carry off"]


Mat 13:42
And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. [<--same point in the chronology that all other "weeping and gnashing of teeth" passages are also speaking to... which is basically this: their NON-entrance into the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom age--aka "the AGE [SINGULAR] to come" Matt12:32 that Jesus had already just spoken about prior to this Matt13 context / setting]





[and my point has been... WE / "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" are NOT the "WHEAT" harvest of this Matthew 13 passage / wider context]

 

[DavidTree]

@DavidTree ,



One of the CONTEXTS covering the "eschatological" Subjects we are presenty discussing in this thread, is the following passage (notice some of the differences between this passage and the Subject being covered in John 4):


Mat 13:39
The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world [/the end of the AGE]; and the reapers are the angels.


Mat 13:40
As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this ['this' SPECIFIC one being referred to here] world [/AGE].


Mat 13:41
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall *gather [G4816] out of [ek] his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

[* G4816 - "to collect in order to carry off"]


Mat 13:42
And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. [<--same point in the chronology that all other "weeping and gnashing of teeth" passages are also speaking to... which is basically this: their NON-entrance into the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom age--aka "the AGE [SINGULAR] to come" Matt12:32 that Jesus had already just spoken about prior to this Matt13 context / setting]





[and my point has been... WE / "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" are NOT the "WHEAT" harvest of this Matthew 13 passage / wider context]

You need to listen to Scripture which does not lie.

Stay with this = JOHN 4

Jesus explained, “My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me and to finish His work.
Do you not say, ‘There are still four months until the harvest’? I tell you, lift up your eyes and look at the fields, for they are ripe for harvest.

Already the reaper draws his wages and gathers a crop for eternal life, so that the sower and the reaper may rejoice together. For in this case the saying ‘One sows and another reaps’ is true. I sent you to reap what you have not worked for; others have done the hard work, and now you have taken up their labor.”

Since the LORD said "Do not say" - don't attempt to maneuver around His command.

You will never be able to bring forth a pre-trib rapture by seeking to changing the words, meanings and clear instruction from CHRIST.

This is a great sin friend.

The Saints are God's Harvest and the Tares are the wicked -
No one escapes or are left behind. No secret Gentile rapture. No restoration of Israel until His Second Coming.

There are no seperate Harvests which is why you desperately seek one for your pre-trib error.

Do you not say, ‘There are still four months until the harvest’?
I tell you, lift up your eyes and look at the fields, for they are ripe for harvest.

 

[peldom10]

Since pre-trib never came out of the mouth of God - it is falsehood and divides.

This post of yours #1040, right now, is a prime example.

Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar.

Why do yo find it so difficult to lay hold of the Eternal Commandment = Duet 4:1-2, Proverbs 30:5-6, Revelation 22:18-19

What you should do is constantly maintain what we are commanded = the word of the LORD = 1 Thess 1:10 , 4:13-18 , 2 Thess 2 , 1 John 2 , 1 Timothy 4:1 , Revelation ch6, 7, 14, 19, 20

Study scriptures...God tells us there is a pre-trib. rapture.

 

[walknlight]

HI!

Since the LORD said "Do not say" - don't attempt to maneuver around His command.

John 4:35 Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest. KJV

New Living Translation
You know the saying, ‘Four months between planting and harvest.’ But I say, wake up and look around. The fields are already ripe for harvest.

 

[DavidTree]

HI!


John 4:35 Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest. KJV

New Living Translation
You know the saying, ‘Four months between planting and harvest.’ But I say, wake up and look around. The fields are already ripe for harvest.

NIV is incorrect. "Do not say" and "Say not ye" are the SAME - PEACE

 

[DavidTree]

Study scriptures...God tells us there is a pre-trib. rapture.

Study Scirpture and bring one forth - otherwise you err, now PROVE IT

 

[walknlight]

Hey!

NIV is incorrect.

Who uses NIV?

"Do not say" and "Say not ye" are the SAME - PEACE

Either way doesnt equal to what You said :
"Since the LORD said "Do not say" - don't attempt to maneuver around His command. "

 

[DavidTree]

Hey!

Who uses NIV?

Either way doesnt equal to what You said :
"Since the LORD said "Do not say" - don't attempt to maneuver around His command. "

It equals what is written which is - DO NOT SAY

in case you haven't noticed, DO NOT SAY, is a direct quote from Scripture.

Stop with the maneuvering around His Command of DO NOT SAY there are still four months to harvest

And he who reaps receives wages, and gathers fruit for eternal life, that both he who sows and he who reaps may rejoice together. 37For in this the saying is true: ‘One sows and another reaps.’ 38I sent you to reap that for which you have not labored; others have labored, and you have entered into their labors.”

There is One Harvest, there is One Second Coming - there is One Bride of Christ - He has One Body - there is One Gospel

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ I am not seeing the "imperative" [/command] in the first part of this verse under present discussion (as you are suggesting of it) -

https://biblehub.com/text/john/4-35.htm - John 4:35

 

[cv5]

^ In John 4, Jesus is covering the Subject of "the Samaritans" (see v.4 and v.9 and v.23 and v.28 and vv.36,38 and v.39, for example).

Completely distinct Subject (not covering the Subject we are discussing here ; ) ).



[Jesus was talking with His disciples about "the Samaritans" and making a point thusly (about their then-present-day things... "white already to harvest").]

Clearly. In all likelihood, this verse was uttered as Jesus was observing groups of Samaritans (dressed in typical white garb) coming to Him as a result of the testimony of the woman at the well.

Nothing more complicated than that.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Study scriptures...God tells us there is a pre-trib. rapture.

Then please direct us to the verse that shows Jesus taking raptured believers to heaven.

 

[Absolutely]

Then please direct us to the verse that shows Jesus taking raptured believers to heaven.

I already did that.

Just keep pretending we have no verses.

La la land eschatology.

 

[walknlight]

Hi
?

It equals what is written which is - DO NOT SAY

Stop with the maneuvering around His Command of DO NOT SAY there are still four months to harvest

Not true.....
KJV

King James Bible
Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.

"Say not you ?" or "You say, don't you ? " , other than what you are saying, no pun intended
How in the world do you get a commandment from Christ from this?

Follow your own rule... Dont add or take away....

God Bless

 

[walknlight]

Hey!

I already did that.

Just keep pretending we have no verses.

La la land eschatology.

World living in "peace"...restrainer taken "out of way", man of sin revealed, dead rise, those who are alive change, caught up together,
chaos, strong delusion....

Do you think we've seen him, man of sin?

God Bless

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Then please direct us to the verse that shows Jesus taking raptured believers to heaven.

I already did that.

You know how to tell when someone is lying? It's rather easy.

They KEEP SAYING they did something when they NEVER did it.

Just keep pretending we have no verses.

Why do you pretend to have a verse showing Jesus taking raptured believers to heaven?

We don't have to pretend that you have no verses. It's a clear fact. You have no verses. Just your fantasies.

La la land eschatology.

Describes your theology pretty well.

Here's the thing. If you really did have a verse that shows Jesus taking raptured believers to heaven, you would be quoting it in EVERY post of yours. But you don't. In fact, because there are no such verses, all you can do is fantasize and claim that you have.