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PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,572
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#61
“God with us” does not automatically mean Yahweh or Jehovah. The term is “theos with us” which implies deity. Same with elohim. When you read Genesis you often see “Lord God”. When you translate it, the words are Jehovah (Self existent) elohim. Elohim means gods or theos in Greek. It differentiates Jehovah from the other heavenly beings (elohim, theos). Christ is theos, devine but not Jehovah. Jehovah is His Father our God. Christ is His Son, our Lord. It is obvious throughout Scripture. Read what the Bible says not what people tell you it says. Yes, I include me. Don’t just blindly accept (because you won’t anyways), look for yourself.
BTW.

Preaching that Jesus is NOT God is a bannable offense I believe.

Because it is such a pernicious, satanic lie, that most cults preach.
 
Nov 26, 2012
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#62
BTW.

Preaching that Jesus is NOT God is a bannable offense I believe.

Because it is such a pernicious, satanic lie, that most cults preach.
Preaching that Jesus is not Jehovah is something Christ did Himself. If He’s not welcome here, please have me banned.
 
Nov 26, 2012
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#64
Sorry to inform you, but you are NOT saved if you don't confess and believe that Jesus Christ IS LORD.



Whenever we fail to grasp essential truths like Jesus IS God, the Pharisees of all people bail us out.


John 8:58

New King James Version

58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”


The Pharisees were so outraged that He called Himself God, they wanted to kill them right there.


John 8:59

New King James Version

59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going[a] through the midst of them, and so passed by.
Before you cast your stones, perhaps you should educate yourself a bit. Look at the original. John himself clarifies. The text is written, “In the beginning was the Word (Logos). The Word (Logos) was with God (Theon- chief of theos) and the Word was God (theos- a god). The translation was biased to enforce monotheism. Call me a heretic if you must. Remember it was misinformed, religious leaders who were Christ’s greatest critics. So drop your stones and pick up the Bible and read it. Read it in Hebrew. Read it in Greek. Read it in the Spirit. It says what it says, regardless of what you say and think. All of the red “X”s you click won’t change that. If I was going to get banned, it would have happened by now.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,572
9,091
113
#65
Before you cast your stones, perhaps you should educate yourself a bit. Look at the original. John himself clarifies. The text is written, “In the beginning was the Word (Logos). The Word (Logos) was with God (Theon- chief of theos) and the Word was God (theos- a god). The translation was biased to enforce monotheism. Call me a heretic if you must. Remember it was misinformed, religious leaders who were Christ’s greatest critics. So drop your stones and pick up the Bible and read it. Read it in Hebrew. Read it in Greek. Read it in the Spirit. It says what it says, regardless of what you say and think. All of the red “X”s you click won’t change that. If I was going to get banned, it would have happened by now.
Funny how you didn’t bother addressing Jesus Himself saying He is the I AM. And the Pharisees reaction to that.

Whenever we fail to grasp essential truths like Jesus IS God, the Pharisees of all people bail us out.


John 8:58

New King James Version

58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”


The Pharisees were so outraged that He called Himself God, they wanted to kill HIM right there.


John 8:59

New King James Version

59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going[a] through the midst of them, and so passed by.
 
Nov 26, 2012
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#66
Funny how you didn’t bother addressing Jesus Himself saying He is the I AM. And the Pharisees reaction to that.

Whenever we fail to grasp essential truths like Jesus IS God, the Pharisees of all people bail us out.


John 8:58

New King James Version

58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”


The Pharisees were so outraged that He called Himself God, they wanted to kill HIM right there.


John 8:59

New King James Version

59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going[a] through the midst of them, and so passed by.
Even funnier is how you fail to address Christ referring to Jehovah as His Father, how not even the Son but only the Father knows the dates regarding end times. Also how He will sit at the right hand of the Father, until the Father gives all to Him. Nobody is denying Christ is deity. That is clear. Even in John 8: 58 it is your confirmation bias that makes you think He called Himself the Great I Am. Directly translated He said, “Truly, truly I tell you, before Abraham was born, I exist (am).” The word that better defines the name given to Moses is more often translated “become”. I Am that I Am is He is what He is, Seft-Existent. Son by definition is brought forth from another. If He is what He is and He is the Father and the Son then by definition, you might be correct. As for Jehovah returning at the end of the age for His Bride and to rule then you would be incorrect. That would be Christ, Son of the Self-Existent, God of elohim (theos; devine beings; beings from the heavens; gods).

That is without preconception what is written. What it may mean is up for debate. The Bible doesn’t even say the Pharisees thought He called Himself God. That is what preachers taught. He definitely called Himself devine.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#67
The Bible doesn’t even say the Pharisees thought He called Himself God.
“We are not stoning You for any good work,” said the Jews, “but for blasphemy,
because You, who are a man, declare Yourself to be God.” John 10:33
 
Nov 26, 2012
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#68
“We are not stoning You for any good work,” said the Jews, “but for blasphemy,
because You, who are a man, declare Yourself to be God.” John 10:33
That was a different time. I think anyone trying to prove Christ is Jehovah and not the Son of Jehovah, would steer clear of that conversation of John 10. Do you lean to the side that Christ was wrong, and that Jehovah wasn’t His Father? Does it make sense that Jehovah lied to people saying He was a Son of God instead of the Self Existent God of gods Himself?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,771
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#69
Even funnier is how you fail to address Christ referring to Jehovah as His Father, how not even the Son but only the Father knows the dates regarding end times.
This is one of those lame JW arguments. Of course Jesus addressed the Father as "Father". But the Father addressed the Son as "God" -- not once but twice, so that people like you would not have a leg to stand on. As for not knowing the day nor the hour, that was prior to the resurrection of Christ. After His resurrection ALL POWER AND AUTHORITY has been given to Him by the Father.
 
Nov 26, 2012
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#70
This is one of those lame JW arguments. Of course Jesus addressed the Father as "Father". But the Father addressed the Son as "God" -- not once but twice, so that people like you would not have a leg to stand on. As for not knowing the day nor the hour, that was prior to the resurrection of Christ. After His resurrection ALL POWER AND AUTHORITY has been given to Him by the Father.
Where does The Father call Christ Yahweh?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,815
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#71
That was a different time. I think anyone trying to prove Christ is Jehovah and not the Son of Jehovah, would steer clear of that conversation of John 10. Do you lean to the side that Christ was wrong, and that Jehovah wasn’t His Father? Does it make sense that Jehovah lied to people saying He was a Son of God instead of the Self Existent God of gods Himself?
What do you mean to say a different time? It was while Jesus was walking this world two thousand years ago, prior to His crucifixion, which the Jewish leaders sought due to their belief that Jesus was a blasphemer. At this, the high priest tore his clothes and declared, “He has blasphemed! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy. What do you think?” “He deserves to die,” they answered.…Matthew 26:65-66a That was during Jesus' trial before He was crucified. Jesus was both the Son of Man and the Son of God but He predated His incarnation, in fact, all things were created by Him and for Him, and we were chosen in Him before the foundation of the world. That is in no way leaning toward saying Christ was wrong. He spoke in a way the Jewish people understood which you reject.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,003
4,315
113
#72
That was a different time. I think anyone trying to prove Christ is Jehovah and not the Son of Jehovah, would steer clear of that conversation of John 10. Do you lean to the side that Christ was wrong, and that Jehovah wasn’t His Father? Does it make sense that Jehovah lied to people saying He was a Son of God instead of the Self Existent God of gods Himself?
Jesus is the Son of God which means HE, as God, is Eternal. He has all the attributes of the Father :)
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,726
13,522
113
#73
That was a different time. I think anyone trying to prove Christ is Jehovah and not the Son of Jehovah, would steer clear of that conversation of John 10. Do you lean to the side that Christ was wrong, and that Jehovah wasn’t His Father? Does it make sense that Jehovah lied to people saying He was a Son of God instead of the Self Existent God of gods Himself?
don't confuse triunity for polytheism.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,003
4,315
113
#74
Even funnier is how you fail to address Christ referring to Jehovah as His Father, how not even the Son but only the Father knows the dates regarding end times. Also how He will sit at the right hand of the Father, until the Father gives all to Him. Nobody is denying Christ is deity. That is clear. Even in John 8: 58 it is your confirmation bias that makes you think He called Himself the Great I Am. Directly translated He said, “Truly, truly I tell you, before Abraham was born, I exist (am).” The word that better defines the name given to Moses is more often translated “become”. I Am that I Am is He is what He is, Seft-Existent. Son by definition is brought forth from another. If He is what He is and He is the Father and the Son then by definition, you might be correct. As for Jehovah returning at the end of the age for His Bride and to rule then you would be incorrect. That would be Christ, Son of the Self-Existent, God of elohim (theos; devine beings; beings from the heavens; gods).

That is without preconception what is written. What it may mean is up for debate. The Bible doesn’t even say the Pharisees thought He called Himself God. That is what preachers taught. He definitely called Himself devine.

That is because you don't understand The Jewish Wedding :) and the Role of the Father and the Son.
 
Nov 26, 2012
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#75
What do you mean to say a different time? It was while Jesus was walking this world two thousand years ago, prior to His crucifixion, which the Jewish leaders sought due to their belief that Jesus was a blasphemer. At this, the high priest tore his clothes and declared, “He has blasphemed! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy. Matthew 26:65 That was during Jesus' trial before He was crucified. Jesus was both the Son of Man and the Son of God but He predated His incarnation, in fact, all things were created by Him and for Him, and we were chosen in Him before the foundation of the world. That is in no way leaning toward saying Christ was wrong. He spoke in a way the Jewish people understood which you reject.
Teach me. What other evidence in all of Scripture do we read that you are both with that person and are that person? Who refers to themselves as their father? Which father says they are pleased with themselves as their son? I’m not sure why everyone seems to take issue with reading Scripture as it is written. To tell the Greeks that Christ is the Logos following the Stoic movement is saying something that most wouldn’t understand because they never studied Stoicism. To call Christ devine is accurate. That’s what theos means, devine. Magenta is your name but everything magenta is not you. I think there is more evidence that Yahweh and Yeshua are both devine with Yahweh being Self Existent. Why does Yeshua being His Son make Him less a Saviour?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,815
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#77
To call Christ devine is accurate
devine
ADJECTIVE, NOUN, VERB
a frequent misspelling of divine.


Why does Yeshua being His Son make Him less a Saviour?
Eh? Why does being called the Son of God make Him less than what Scripture proclaims in the 1st ch. of John?

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us.
 
Nov 26, 2012
3,095
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#78
This is one of those lame JW arguments. Of course Jesus addressed the Father as "Father". But the Father addressed the Son as "God" -- not once but twice, so that people like you would not have a leg to stand on. As for not knowing the day nor the hour, that was prior to the resurrection of Christ. After His resurrection ALL POWER AND AUTHORITY has been given to Him by the Father.
For the record, who are people like me? Also for the record, who gave Christ the power and authority? If it was His Father who gave it to Him then you agree they are separate. You argue for the sake of arguing. You can’t even make a point without proving mine.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,815
29,193
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#79
Teach me. What other evidence in all of Scripture do we read that you are both
with that person and are that person? Who refers to themselves as their father?
Which father says they are pleased with themselves as their son? I’m not sure
why everyone seems to take issue with reading Scripture as it is written.
Who is not reading Scripture as it is written? You? You have denied what is explicitly written.

Please also check out this thread (<= link :))
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,815
29,193
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#80


From Isaiah 9:6-7a :)