Our new relationship to the law.

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justbyfaith said:
According to scripture, we are not under the law (Romans 6:14) are dead to the law (Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19) and have been delivered from the law (Romans 7:6) as concerning condemnation.

For we have been forgiven through the blood of Christ; and therefore when the Father looks down on us, He sees, not our sins, but the blood and righteousness of His Son Jesus Christ.

And therefore, in the Father's sight, the law does not any longer point the finger at us and call us sinners.

While from the perspective of the Holy Ghost, whose job it is to convict of sin and also to sanctify the believer, He has a relationship with us where He deals with us according to our sins according to the law (1 Corinthians 9:22, Romans 3:20).

As concerning obedience, we are under the law to Christ (again, 1 Corinthians 9:22).

The law is written on our hearts and minds through the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 13:8-10; Romans 5:5).

And again, we are not under the law (Romans 6:14), are dead to the law (Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19) and are delivered from the law (Romans 7:6) as concerning condemnation;

while as concerning obedience we become obedient to the moral tenets of the law;

Not through attempting to obey a set of do's and don'ts (the letter); but through walking not after the flesh but after the Spirit (the spirit of what is written, Romans 7:6, 8:4).

As we bear the fruit of the Spirit, there is no law that will condemn us in our behaviour (Galatians 5:22-23). Thus, when we bear the fruit of the Spirit, we become law-abiding citizens of the kingdom of heaven (see Ezekiel 36:25-27).

This is a righteousness apart from the law that is nevertheless attested to be the law and the prophets (Romans 3:21) that it is indeed righteousness.

Because, this righteousness is not obtained by attempting to obey a set of do's and don'ts.

Rather, we obtain the Holy Spirit through faith in Jesus Christ (Galatians 3:14, Ephesians 1:13-14); and as we walk according to the Spirit, the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us (Romans 8:4, Galatians 5:22-23).

That being said, it is written that if anyone turns his ear away from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be an abomination (Proverbs 28:9).

It is indeed faithful and true that those who are of the law are under a curse (Galatians 3:10, James 2:10, Matthew 5:48). However, this is as concerning those who are attempting to be justified by the law (Galatians 5:1-4).

For those who know that they are justified by the blood of Jesus Christ and not by their obedience / works / law-keeping, it becomes a blessing to look into the perfect law of liberty and to walk according to it (James 1:22-25).
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When I am young my pastor was teach, salvation not by do the law but by grace, he say it doesn't matter what you do, murder, robing the bank etc still go to heaven as long as you believe Jesus as god. Good work only deterrent the reward.
After I learn my bible, I am not agree with his teaching. Jesus say if you abide in him/you have faith you will bear the fruit.
If you have Jesus in your hearth you will bear fruit of loving work.
It is true salvation not by work, in the sense as son as you accept Jesus and die in the next second before you have time helping the poor you go to heaven because salvation not by work. But if you still live for the next 10 years, your genuine faith will bear fruit of loving work.
Salvation not by work but salvation bear or produce loving work because Jesus in you will bear loving fruit.
 
BroTan said:
You responding to quick and not taking time understand what you reading.
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I understood it just fine.

You were saying that we are not born again until after we receive our glorified bodies...because it is only then that we are born "of the spirit".
 
Jackson123 said:
When I am young my pastor was teach, salvation not by do the law but by grace, he say it doesn't matter what you do, murder, robing the bank etc still go to heaven as long as you believe Jesus as god. Good work only deterrent the reward.
After I learn my bible, I am not agree with his teaching. Jesus say if you abide in him/you have faith you will bear the fruit.
If you have Jesus in your hearth you will bear fruit of loving work.
It is true salvation not by work, in the sense as son as you accept Jesus and die in the next second before you have time helping the poor you go to heaven because salvation not by work. But if you still live for the next 10 years, your genuine faith will bear fruit of loving work.
Salvation not by work but salvation bear or produce loving work because Jesus in you will bear loving fruit.
Click to expand...
I agree.
 
justbyfaith said:
So, we know that we love God and our neighbor when we love God and our neighbor?

Isn't that redundant?
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You can’t love GOD and your neighbor perfectly In your own strength GOD has to first save you justifying the Spirit of a just man making his Spirit perfect and then a person will seek to purify themselves. (
the outward man/flesh) even as they are pure.

Ephesians 2:8-10
King James Version

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
 
seed_time_harvest said:
You can’t love GOD and your neighbor perfectly In your own strength GOD has to first save you justifying the Spirit of a just man making his Spirit perfect and then a person will seek to purify themselves. (
the outward man/flesh) even as they are pure.

Ephesians 2:8-10
King James Version

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
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That is not an answer to the question but is a mere deflection.
 
seed_time_harvest said:
I’ll ask you then,How DO you love GOD and your neighbor by loving GOD and your neighbor?
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I'm saying that you are being redundant.

The commandments that are being spoken of, in 1 John 5:2, are the ten commandments alongside of any other moral tenet that can be found in holy scripture (Romans 13:8-10).
 
seed_time_harvest said:
I’ll ask you then,How DO you love GOD and your neighbor by loving GOD and your neighbor?
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we love others by learning what love is -- by learning to love ourselves... or when maybe growing up -- we were taught love by example of many toward us to varying degree.

but how do we love ourselves one might ask when part of ourselves are carnal and part good... do we stay with our parents for all time? and will we love everything about ourselves and give ourselves whatever we feel like... or are there principles to be learned -- as in childhood -- our parents teach us the right ways?

ways which need to be learned in order to 'grow up' into the fullness of Christ -- more -- as a Child -- correcting ourselves as we go until...

one would come unto perfection -- be completely led unto -- grown up in Christ.
 
Ogom said:
we love others by learning what love is -- by learning to love ourselves... or when maybe growing up -- we were taught love by example of many toward us to varying degree.

but how do we love ourselves one might ask when part of ourselves are carnal and part good... do we stay with our parents for all time? and will we love everything about ourselves and give ourselves whatever we feel like... or are there principles to be learned -- as in childhood -- our parents teach us the right ways?

ways which need to be learned in order to 'grow up' into the fullness of Christ -- more -- as a Child -- correcting ourselves as we go until...

one would come unto perfection -- be completely led unto -- grown up in Christ.
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But does GOD have to put the fruit of the SPIRIT In the person Before they can love GOD and their neighbor or do they have to love GOD and their neighbor Before GOD accepts them?
 
seed_time_harvest said:
But does GOD have to put the fruit of the SPIRIT In the person Before they can love GOD and their neighbor or do they have to love GOD and their neighbor Before GOD accepts them?
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We receive the love of the Lord as the result of being justified.

seed_time_harvest said:
I quoted Ephesians 2:8-11 why are you responding to what I posted with the book of John.
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I did not respond to anything with the book of John.
 
justbyfaith said:
I understood it just fine.

You were saying that we are not born again until after we receive our glorified bodies...because it is only then that we are born "of the spirit".
Click to expand...


That's right, but the thing is you read it, I didn't say it. But Paul understood this as well in 1 Corinthians 15: 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Notice Paul says we borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. See Paul understood this. But that Kingdom is talking about the Father Kingdom, but that lesson for another time. This is called the first resurrection when this happen.
 
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Jackson123 said:
When I am young my pastor was teach, salvation not by do the law but by grace, he say it doesn't matter what you do, murder, robing the bank etc still go to heaven as long as you believe Jesus as god. Good work only deterrent the reward.
After I learn my bible, I am not agree with his teaching. Jesus say if you abide in him/you have faith you will bear the fruit.
If you have Jesus in your hearth you will bear fruit of loving work.
It is true salvation not by work, in the sense as son as you accept Jesus and die in the next second before you have time helping the poor you go to heaven because salvation not by work. But if you still live for the next 10 years, your genuine faith will bear fruit of loving work.
Salvation not by work but salvation bear or produce loving work because Jesus in you will bear loving fruit.
Click to expand...

When u say Salvation not by work. What work are you referring to?
 
BroTan said:
That's right, but the thing is you read it, I didn't say it. But Paul understood this as well in 1 Corinthians 15: 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Notice Paul says we borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. See Paul understood this. But that Kingdom is talking about the Father Kingdom, but that lesson for another time. This is called the first resurrection when this happen.
Click to expand...

A man is born again at the moment of first faith (John 5:24); while he is still walking around on the earth.
 
We are comprised of body, soul, and spirit (1 Thessalonians 5:23).

Therefore, when we are born the first time, we are born of the flesh and are born flesh;

And when we are born the second time, we are born of the Spirit and our spirit is made alive unto God.

We do not shed away the flesh when we are born of the Spirit. That comes at the moment of physical death.

If someone has already died physically, it is too late for them to be born of the Spirit.
 
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