Our new relationship to the law.

[justbyfaith]

I am looking for specific wording in the references you posted, please. I believe I know your point, just verifying.

You can look up the verses just fine.

 

[peldom10]

You can look up the verses just fine.

But, what part of the verses apply to your thinking in making the point you tried to make. Because I don't see the confirmation of your original statement. If you choose not to then we understand.

 

[Grandpa]

No, I told you by that statement that I am not bound to the oldness of the letter.

And, the newness of the spirit is spoken of in Romans 7:6.

I understand scripture just fine.

But you appear to be willing to omit scripture.

Yes. You said that.

Then you CONTRADICTED that statement. By saying you are free to "obey what is written".

You are stuck in a circle. You think you have been delivered from condemnation. But if you place yourself under the law then you place yourself under condemnation.

The only way to be delivered from the condemnation of the law is to NO LONGER FOLLOW IT.

Galatians 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

That's pretty clear.

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.


That's pretty clear as well.


Not sure how you can even keep going on with your silly philosophy.

2 simple scriptures decimate it. And I have many many more that you will HAVE to use your silly circular philosophy on as well. If you say you read the bible then you should already know them.

 

[justbyfaith]

The only way to be delivered from the condemnation of the law is to NO LONGER FOLLOW IT.

So, in order to not be condemned by the law, I should:

commit adultery with my neighbor's wife?

kill my neighbor?

steal from my neighbor?

bear false witness against my neighbor?

Covet what belongs to my neighbor?

And break every other law that concerns my neighbor?

I would make the point that if we truly love our neighbor as ourselves, we will not be disobedient to the law as it concerns our neighbor (Romans 13:8-10).

 

[justbyfaith]

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

This is as concerning those who are seeking to be justified through law-keeping (see also Galatians 5:1-4).

For those who know that they know that they know that they are justified through faith in the blood of Jesus Christ, they are able to move onward and forward to "obedience to the faith" (Romans 1:5) and "the obedience of faith" (Romans 16:26).

Compare Galatians 3:10 to James 1:25.

Jas 1:25, But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

One says that we are cursed by the law and the other says that we are blessed by it.

A contradiction?

Not if you take into account the teaching that I have given to you above.

 

[justbyfaith]

But, what part of the verses apply to your thinking in making the point you tried to make. Because I don't see the confirmation of your original statement. If you choose not to then we understand.

Rom 5:5, And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

Rom 13:8, Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9, For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10, Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

 

[justbyfaith]

Yes. You said that.

Then you CONTRADICTED that statement. By saying you are free to "obey what is written".

You are stuck in a circle. You think you have been delivered from condemnation. But if you place yourself under the law then you place yourself under condemnation.

I said that I am not longer bound by the letter.

But that I am set free to obey the spirit of what is written.

(see Romans 7:6).

This has to do with the fact that if I have the Holy Spirit, I will bear the fruit of the Spirit; against which there is no law (Galatians 5:22-23). Now, that passage is saying that if I bear the fruit of the Spirit, there is no law that will condemn me in my behaviour in the practical sense. Therefore, if I bear the fruit of the Spirit, I become a law-abiding citizen of the kingdom of heaven.

This is not done through the oldness of the letter...through attempting to obey a set of do's and don'ts.

It is accomplished when I receive the Holy Spirit by faith (Galatians 3:14, Ephesians 1:13-14) and then walk according to the Spirit by faith (see also Romans 8:4, if you will).

 

[justbyfaith]

bump

 

[BroTan]

You put grace under the law. That is a recipe for confusion. Your righteousness is based on your behaviour. Mine is superior because it has nothing to do with me. Christ is my righteousness now. He leads me and guides me. He empowers me to live in a way that pleases God. I live by the Law of the Spirit of Life in Him, which sets me free from the law of sin and death.

Grace is nothing more than a free gift. And that free gift is our access back to the tree of life (Jesus) which Adam caused us to lose by disobeying God. Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (Romans 5: 12) But to maintain your grace you must keep the law. (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts.

Paul said in "1 Corinthians 6:9" Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Paul said in Ephesians 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; 5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Paul said in 1 Thessalonians 4:7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.
Now lets understand and reason together, Paul just gave us a run down on condition of sins. People who are behaving in such manner will not inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God, even those who are unclean. Being unclean does not mean a person doesn’t wash up, we are not talking about soap and water. We are talking about defiling the body, with unholiness or unGodliness.

 

[justbyfaith]

But to maintain your grace you must keep the law. (1John 3:4)

Our salvation is by faith in Jesus Christ at the beginning, at the end, and all the way through.

Rom 1:17, For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Gal 3:1, O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
Gal 3:2, This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal 3:3, Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Col 2:6, As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord (by faith), so walk ye in him:

Now lets understand and reason together, Paul just gave us a run down on condition of sins. People who are behaving in such manner will not inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God, even those who are unclean.

The reality is that if anyone is truly born again, the result will be a life of holiness.

However, if someone who is truly a believer blows it or fails to live up the standard of God's law, he is not condemned.

For a righteous man falls seven times and then gets back up again (Proverbs 24:16).

If someone who is righteous by faith in Jesus Christ, and does something ungodly, he still retains his identity, that he is righteous (Romans 4:5).

 

[peldom10]

I said that I am not longer bound by the letter.

But that I am set free to obey the spirit of what is written.

(see Romans 7:6).

This has to do with the fact that if I have the Holy Spirit, I will bear the fruit of the Spirit; against which there is no law (Galatians 5:22-23). Now, that passage is saying that if I bear the fruit of the Spirit, there is no law that will condemn me in my behaviour in the practical sense. Therefore, if I bear the fruit of the Spirit, I become a law-abiding citizen of the kingdom of heaven.

This is not done through the oldness of the letter...through attempting to obey a set of do's and don'ts.

It is accomplished when I receive the Holy Spirit by faith (Galatians 3:14, Ephesians 1:13-14) and then walk according to the Spirit by faith (see also Romans 8:4, if you will).

WOW.....we are earthlings, how can anyone place themselves in Heaven when in fact God has not determined eligibility and won't until judgement.
I doubt God appreciates being usurped in His authority to review and judge.

 

[justbyfaith]

WOW.....we are earthlings, how can anyone place themselves in Heaven when in fact God has not determined eligibility and won't until judgement.
I doubt God appreciates being usurped in His authority to review and judge.

It is not true that God does not determine eligibility for heaven until judgment.

John 5:24 tells us that everlasting life is given to us at the moment of first faith. When we hear Jesus' words and believe on Him who sent Him, we have passed from death into everlasting life and shall not come into condemnation.

 

[BroTan]

Our salvation is by faith in Jesus Christ at the beginning, at the end, and all the way through.

Rom 1:17, For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Gal 3:1, O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
Gal 3:2, This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal 3:3, Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Col 2:6, As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord (by faith), so walk ye in him:




The reality is that if anyone is truly born again, the result will be a life of holiness.

However, if someone who is truly a believer blows it or fails to live up the standard of God's law, he is not condemned.

For a righteous man falls seven times and then gets back up again (Proverbs 24:16).

If someone who is righteous by faith in Jesus Christ, and does something ungodly, he still retains his identity, that he is righteous (Romans 4:5).

Let's take a look what Paul is saying in (Gal. 3:1, 13, 16-17, 19, 24) (v.1) O FOOLISH Ga-la’-tians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? (v.13) Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, CURSED IS EVERYONE THAT HANGETH ON A TREE: What law is this talking about? Let the bible speak for itself.

(v.16) Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, and to seeds, as of many; but as of One, AND TO THY SEED, which is Christ. (v.17) And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Now pay attention, the law that is being spoken of here came four hundred and thirty years after this covenant. But God’s holy commandments have been around forever even before man was created. Remember that Satan was kicked out of heaven because iniquity (sin) was found in him. And what is sin? The transgression of the law (commandments). Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts. (1John 3:4)

(v.19) Wherefore then serveth the law? A question is being asked here. Then why should we serve this law? It was added because of transgression, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; the law that we are talking about here was added because of sin. But we now know that sin is the transgression of the law.

How do you add a law if sin is the transgression of the law? Because there are two sets of laws, you have God’s holy commandments which abided forever, and you had the animal sacrificial law which was added because of sin, but it was only good until the seed should come to whom the promise was made, and that seed was Jesus.

(v.24) Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. This animal sacrificial law was only a schoolmaster.

And this schoolmaster taught you that when you sinned in ignorance blood had to be shed (an animal sacrificed). But Christ being the ultimate sacrifice shed his precious blood once and for all, and by doing this putting an end to the animal sacrificial law. Paul says in Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. So when you quoted all the places in the Bible that do away with this animal sacrificial law, not understanding that Paul talks about two sets of law. The Royal law (Ten Commandments) and the animal sacrificial law sometimes in the same verse you bring destruction to yourselves.

The reality is that if anyone is truly born again, the result will be a life of holiness.

According to the Bible born again is a change in the body not the mind.

 

[justbyfaith]

According to the Bible born again is a change in the body not the mind.

By all means give chapter and verse.

 

[justbyfaith]

Let's take a look what Paul is saying in (Gal. 3:1, 13, 16-17, 19, 24) (v.1) O FOOLISH Ga-la’-tians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? (v.13) Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, CURSED IS EVERYONE THAT HANGETH ON A TREE: What law is this talking about? Let the bible speak for itself.

(v.16) Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, and to seeds, as of many; but as of One, AND TO THY SEED, which is Christ. (v.17) And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Now pay attention, the law that is being spoken of here came four hundred and thirty years after this covenant. But God’s holy commandments have been around forever even before man was created. Remember that Satan was kicked out of heaven because iniquity (sin) was found in him. And what is sin? The transgression of the law (commandments). Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts. (1John 3:4)

(v.19) Wherefore then serveth the law? A question is being asked here. Then why should we serve this law? It was added because of transgression, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; the law that we are talking about here was added because of sin. But we now know that sin is the transgression of the law.

How do you add a law if sin is the transgression of the law? Because there are two sets of laws, you have God’s holy commandments which abided forever, and you had the animal sacrificial law which was added because of sin, but it was only good until the seed should come to whom the promise was made, and that seed was Jesus.

(v.24) Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. This animal sacrificial law was only a schoolmaster.

And this schoolmaster taught you that when you sinned in ignorance blood had to be shed (an animal sacrificed). But Christ being the ultimate sacrifice shed his precious blood once and for all, and by doing this putting an end to the animal sacrificial law. Paul says in Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. So when you quoted all the places in the Bible that do away with this animal sacrificial law, not understanding that Paul talks about two sets of law. The Royal law (Ten Commandments) and the animal sacrificial law sometimes in the same verse you bring destruction to yourselves.

There is truly a law that is eternal in the heart of God; and it is the ten commandments; and it is the royal law according to scripture, that we love our neighbor as ourself.

This law was not given to the people until the time of Moses; while it existed in the heart of the Lord.

The moral law was given to people in the time of Moses: the ten commandments and the royal law were not given as a revelation before God wrote them on the tablets.

So, when it says that Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, it is referring to the whole law of Moses.

It is not talking only about the law of sacrifices but of the ten commandments and also the 613 that accompanied them.

Act 13:37, But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.
Act 13:38, Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:
Act 13:39, And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

 

[BroTan]

There is truly a law that is eternal in the heart of God; and it is the ten commandments; and it is the royal law according to scripture, that we love our neighbor as ourself.

This law was not given to the people until the time of Moses; while it existed in the heart of the Lord.

The moral law was given to people in the time of Moses: the ten commandments and the royal law were not given as a revelation before God wrote them on the tablets.

So, when it says that Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, it is referring to the whole law of Moses.

It is not talking only about the law of sacrifices but of the ten commandments and also the 613 that accompanied them.

Act 13:37, But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.
Act 13:38, Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:
Act 13:39, And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Nope, that's not what Gal 3 is saying

 

[justbyfaith]

Nope, that's not what Gal 3 is saying

We will have to agree to disagree.

 

[BroTan]

By all means give chapter and verse.

Let’s jump right in a conversation that Jesus was having with a man name Nicodemus. John 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: 2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Notice verse 3, except a man is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. We have just learned something here. If you are not born again you can not see the kingdom of God. As we go further you will understand this. Remember there is a time for everything.

Nicodemus asked a very good question. Take a look at the next set of verses.

John 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

In verse 5, born of the water in this case is the Word of God. Notice the Lord mentions the kingdom of God again, but He adds a little more information. He says "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. When he mentions spirit He means exactly that. Watch how the Lord gives something physical to describe exactly what He means.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Notice He made a difference between flesh and spirit. Ask yourself that question, was you born flesh or spirit?

John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Notice He compared the wind to a spirit. Can you see the wind? No! We have seen things being blown around by the wind, but we have never seen the wind. If you are born of the spirit you are like the wind. This is when you are truly born again, when you are born of the spirit.

Notice what Jesus does in these next few verses. Remember, this is after His resurrection.

John 20:26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. 27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Note two very important things within these verses. 1. Jesus appeared in the midst of them and the doors were shut. 2. Thomas called Him God. When Jesus came out of the grave he was born into the God family.

 

[BroTan]

We will have to agree to disagree.

I don't believe in that when comes to the word of God, it's one way or the other. Learn those different laws in Paul writing and you see and understand.

 

[justbyfaith]

Let’s jump right in a conversation that Jesus was having with a man name Nicodemus. John 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: 2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Notice verse 3, except a man is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. We have just learned something here. If you are not born again you can not see the kingdom of God. As we go further you will understand this. Remember there is a time for everything.

Nicodemus asked a very good question. Take a look at the next set of verses.

John 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

In verse 5, born of the water in this case is the Word of God. Notice the Lord mentions the kingdom of God again, but He adds a little more information. He says "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. When he mentions spirit He means exactly that. Watch how the Lord gives something physical to describe exactly what He means.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Notice He made a difference between flesh and spirit. Ask yourself that question, was you born flesh or spirit?

John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Notice He compared the wind to a spirit. Can you see the wind? No! We have seen things being blown around by the wind, but we have never seen the wind. If you are born of the spirit you are like the wind. This is when you are truly born again, when you are born of the spirit.

Notice what Jesus does in these next few verses. Remember, this is after His resurrection.

John 20:26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. 27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Note two very important things within these verses. 1. Jesus appeared in the midst of them and the doors were shut. 2. Thomas called Him God. When Jesus came out of the grave he was born into the God family.

Mankind is composed of body, soul, and spirit (1 Thessalonians 5:23).