Cessation of Gifts

[DavidTree]

Jesus is the Word. When He speaks through me or anyone else, it is the Word.
Do you disagree?

God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; 3who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He hadby Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
Hebrews 1:1-4

The Lord Jesus i know would have you seek His answer from His Word.

 

[TheChurchOfRepentance]

God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; 3who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He hadby Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
Hebrews 1:1-4

The Lord Jesus i know would have you seek His answer from His Word.

Listen up, you name it, I will call upon my God and then you call upon your God and we shall see
who's God will show up. Just like Elijah did it. Do you understand? I will lay it all on the line
my God will show up for me. I walk it .

 

[DavidTree]

OK - i already called it - See Post #1 at the beginning of this thread - the TRUTH CHALLENGE is detailed there.

 

[Aaron56]

"..till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ..."

This is the completion of the Body of Christ to a perfection measured against the fullness of Christ. Until then, the gifts are necessary for the building up and the edifying of the Body.

 

[Aaron56]

I had a discussion with a character from a Church of Christ group. They believe that the gifts have ceased. I asked if he had a pastor, he said yes. I then ask "By what authority does he preach?" He explained that he went to seminary, etc. etc. "So, he preaches by the authority of the seminary?" I asked. He saw the trap and babbled on about lying signs and wonders, etc.

My point: either one is given the doma gift of the pastor, empowered by God to be a shepherd, or he is acting on someone or something else's authority.

 

[Gardenias]

I believe that the gifts were manifested by God for a reason and God alone decides when, where how and why. It has been degraded by some as being little more than a trick to tickle the ears or stir up a spirit. That dosn't mean always. God alone decides how and why that it comes to suit his purpose. He is sovereign. Theirs no formula, clock or calendar. The Holy Spirit is sent by Christ to accomplish his purpose. It's real & not a show.

Isaiah 10 As the rain and the snow
come down from heaven,
and do not return to it
without watering the earth
and making it bud and flourish,
so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater,
11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
It will not return to me empty,
but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.

 

[JTB]

Tongues is the only gift Paul wished we all would partake of (1 Cor 14:5). 1 Corinthians 14:9 - Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.



Seems pretty clear right there.



That being said, I believe the intent of 1 Cor 14 was to address the abuse that goes on in a lot of Pentecostal/charismatic churches these days. There ARE rules about proper time and place.

And I believe that even tho Paul wanted us all to practice it, he would rather we did not do it, than do it wrong.

 

[Gardenias]

In fact, the scripture does say they are temporary. The question is when do/did they cease???

God gave us BOTH the Authority and Authenticity of the Gifts and HE gave us the exact time when they cease = in His Word.

Only when HE who let's ......will the gifts cease with the finished work of the Holy Ghost after his removal from earth!

 

[DavidTree]

Only when HE who let's ......will the gifts cease with the finished work of the Holy Ghost after his removal from earth!

Your close but no prize (yet) = but you are close

The Holy Spirit will not be removed from the earth - only step aside and permit the revealing of the wicked one.

The Holy Spirit never leaves the Temple of God, who we are in CHRIST, unless we reject Him

The answer is there in 1 Cor

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 1 Cor 13:8

Does this say, beyond any doubt that the Gifts have already ceased???

No it does not. IMO Those things will no longer be necessary after the resurrection.
But we will still need love. That's what Paul is telling us.

We are told in verse 10 when the ceasing of spiritual gifts it will be.

NIV
but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears.
NET
but when what is perfect comes, the partial will be set aside.
KJV
But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

And verse 12: " For now we see as through a glass, dimly, but then, face to face."

All together:
8 Love never fails. But if there are prophecies, they shall fail; if there are tongues, they shall cease;
and if there is knowledge, it shall vanish.

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect comes, then that which is imperfect shall pass away.

11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, and I thought as a child.
But when I became a man, I put away childish things.

12 For now we see as through a glass, dimly, but then, face to face.
Now I know in part, but then I shall know, even as I also am known.

Unless we believe that perfection (completeness) arrived and we began to know God face to face
when the apostles died, we can't use 1 Corinthians 13:8 as evidence for the cessation of gifts
after the time of the apostles.

 

[DavidTree]

No it does not. IMO Those things will no longer be necessary after the resurrection.
But we will still need love. That's what Paul is telling us.

We are told in verse 10 when the ceasing of spiritual gifts it will be.

NIV
but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears.
NET
but when what is perfect comes, the partial will be set aside.
KJV
But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

And verse 12: " For now we see as through a glass, dimly, but then, face to face."

All together:
8 Love never fails. But if there are prophecies, they shall fail; if there are tongues, they shall cease;
and if there is knowledge, it shall vanish.

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect comes, then that which is imperfect shall pass away.

11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, and I thought as a child.
But when I became a man, I put away childish things.

12 For now we see as through a glass, dimly, but then, face to face.
Now I know in part, but then I shall know, even as I also am known.

Unless we believe that perfection (completeness) arrived and we began to know God face to face
when the Apostles died, we can't use 1 Corinthians 13:8 as evidence for the cessation of gifts.

Dear Lucy - this is not your IMHO - You are the WINNER for you found the TRUTH = clear as Day

When we are Face to Face with our LORD - the Gifts come off = WHY?

When is a man and woman Face to Face?

When they are enter into their Marriage Chamber.

For while we are on earth we are longing for Him and the Resurrection - to fully put on Christ

 

[tourist]

Listen up, you name it, I will call upon my God and then you call upon your God and we shall see
who's God will show up. Just like Elijah did it. Do you understand? I will lay it all on the line
my God will show up for me. I walk it .

Apparently you walked the talk into Bansville.

 

[DavidTree]

No it does not. IMO Those things will no longer be necessary after the resurrection.
But we will still need love. That's what Paul is telling us.

We are told in verse 10 when the ceasing of spiritual gifts it will be.

NIV
but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears.
NET
but when what is perfect comes, the partial will be set aside.
KJV
But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

And verse 12: " For now we see as through a glass, dimly, but then, face to face."

All together:
8 Love never fails. But if there are prophecies, they shall fail; if there are tongues, they shall cease;
and if there is knowledge, it shall vanish.

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect comes, then that which is imperfect shall pass away.

11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, and I thought as a child.
But when I became a man, I put away childish things.

12 For now we see as through a glass, dimly, but then, face to face.
Now I know in part, but then I shall know, even as I also am known.

Unless we believe that perfection (completeness) arrived and we began to know God face to face
when the apostles died, we can't use 1 Corinthians 13:8 as evidence for the cessation of gifts
after the time of the apostles.

Also, while we, who are His, are on this earth, His Gifts are Marriage Gifts to His Bride to show to the world and to satan we Belong to HIM.
We, His Bride are betrothed to CHRIST and not to another.

 

[tourist]

Beautiful and true words - however, our God is not the author of confusion.

.

Of course, except for the time where God confused the language of the people at the tower of Babel.

 

[DavidTree]

Apparently you walked the talk into Bansville.

Did you see his/her post where he/she said: " When I speak it is the Word of God."

 

[DavidTree]

Of course, except for the time where God confused the language of the people at the tower of Babel.

And when and where did God undo that confusion

 

[Nehemiah6]

The Holy Spirit will not be removed from the earth - only step aside and permit the revealing of the wicked one. The Holy Spirit never leaves the Temple of God, who we are in CHRIST, unless we reject Him

You, my friend, are rather confused about two different topics. If indeed the Holy Spirit merely "steps aside" while Satan and the Antichrist take TOTAL CONTROL of this world, where exactly does He step aside? And if the Church (the Temple of God) is in Heaven at that time, where do you think the Holy Spirit will be? And those who are in Christ cannot and will not reject the Holy Spirit.

But that does not mean that they will not reject modern tongues, which are not even biblical tongues. There are millions of Christians who do not speak in tongues, and have no interest in modern tongues.

 

[DavidTree]

You, my friend, are rather confused about two different topics. If indeed the Holy Spirit merely "steps aside" while Satan and the Antichrist take TOTAL CONTROL of this world, where exactly does He step aside? And if the Church (the Temple of God) is in Heaven at that time, where do you think the Holy Spirit will be? And those who are in Christ cannot and will not reject the Holy Spirit.

But that does not mean that they will not reject modern tongues, which are not even biblical tongues. There are millions of Christians who do not speak in tongues, and have no interest in modern tongues.

So, by your post we can see the real confusion Brother.

#1.) The Saints are on earth, filled with the Holy Spirit, during the Great Tribulation = Revelation chs6, 7, 13, 14

And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months. 6Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. 7It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every [d]tribe, tongue, and nation. 8All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

9If anyone has an ear, let him hear. 10He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

#2.) Just as a Bouncer at the Door refuses to let people in except when He decides, so also is the Holy Spirit (HS7).
HS7 is the BOUNCER that prevents the wicked one until the Time Appointed by the FATHER.
HS7 doesn't run and hide from satan and does not leave this earth and stays with Christ's Bride until His Coming.

#3.) Tongues are a Gift of the Holy Spirit - do not blaspheme as John McArthur and others do = Judgment is upon them and waiting

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Of course, except for the time where God confused the language of the people at the tower of Babel.

I agree, he will confuse his enemies and the unrighteous but he will not be a source of confusion to his children.

 

[tourist]

And when and where did God undo that confusion

Not entirely sure but the first chapter of John possibly offers some clarity -

John 1:1-5
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him, and without him was not any thing made that was made In him was life and the life was the light of men. And the light shined in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

I would surmise that the confusion was undone by John the Baptist who bore witness to the light - Jesus Christ.