Saved by Water

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Jan 31, 2021
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Are the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, the same God in your opinion?

I have a background in the "Jesus only" Movement; but I also believe that Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are distinct (the Trinity).
I acknowledge the Trinity as 3 distinct Personalities.

The 3 distinct Personalities of the Trinity all have the same attributes. The plural wording in Gen 1 shows that they are distinct from each other, but all share the exact same attributes.
 
Jan 31, 2021
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So, the original question was as to whether God prays to Himself.

The Father is the one God (James 2:19) and the Holy Ghost is the one God (James 2:19).

The Holy Ghost prays to the Father (Romans 8:26-27).

Therefore God prays to Himself.
Why would God pray to Himself? Your statements show that you think the Trinity is just One Person. I don't.
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
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I acknowledge the Trinity as 3 distinct Personalities.

The 3 distinct Personalities of the Trinity all have the same attributes. The plural wording in Gen 1 shows that they are distinct from each other, but all share the exact same attributes.
That is also how I perceive it.

While, I consider that we may have different definitions for the word "distinct"
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
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Why would God pray to Himself? Your statements show that you think the Trinity is just One Person. I don't.
We have one God (James 2:19). yes, He is three distinct Persons.

It does not change the fact that when the Holy Ghost makes intercession within us to the Father (Romans 8:26-27), that it is the one God praying to the one God (see James 2:19).
 
May 22, 2020
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God, Christ and The Holy Spirit are one.
God can be in many forms, in many places at many times as the same person. We are talking spirit world here not human world.
God can change who He is but no other can change Him.
 
Jan 31, 2021
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That is also how I perceive it.

While, I consider that we may have different definitions for the word "distinct"
Probably. It seems you view the Trinity as one Person with 3 personalities.

I view the Trinity as 3 distinct Persons.
 
Jan 31, 2021
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We have one God (James 2:19). yes, He is three distinct Persons.

It does not change the fact that when the Holy Ghost makes intercession within us to the Father (Romans 8:26-27), that it is the one God praying to the one God (see James 2:19).
Nope. That would be weird. People who talk to themselves have mental problems.
 

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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1 Peter 3:20-21
“...God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:”


I believe the water mentioned in 1 Peter 3:20-21 pertains to water baptism for the following reasons:

1.The water was the means God used to carry Noah and his family to safety. The sin of the world was washed away in the flood waters. The like figure or antitype is the NT water baptism. (Acts 2:38, 22:16)

2. Notice verse 21 makes specific mention of the process having nothing to do with the removal of filth from the flesh. (This is a reference to bath water) Thus, the comment points to a spiritual transaction taking place.

3. The scripture mentions that baptism is the answer of a good conscience toward God. Our own behavior, and in this particular case getting baptized, is what prompts a good conscience. The result is to be free of guilt. God is the giver of the Holy Ghost and we have no control over that other than asking for Him to give it.

4. Lastly, the scripture specifies this is only made possible by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
yes being baptized in water is an act of faith. We do it because we believe the e promise of the result we’re convinced of what God said

“To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:43‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭26:28‬ ‭

the gospel is completely about hearing and believing what you hear of the gospel baptism works like this if we have faith

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

..Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-39, 41‬ ‭KJV‬‬

they gladly received the word of the promise of remission of thier sins if they believed what Peter had been preaching of Jesus and were baptized in his name .

that’s faith. To hear what the gospel declares , believe it and act upon it , being baptized in water for remission of our sins should be the first act of faith we step in .

it’s a clear pledge by Gods word that if you get baptized in Jesus name buried in the water and raised up from the water he will remit your sins , it happens through Christs death and resurrection and the baptism of our faith into Christs gospel and promises

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-4, 6-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

to understand and believe the doctrine of baptism is immensely important because we’re saved by faith and walking by it in things like hearing the doctrine of remission of sins through baptism into Christs name , death , resurrection .

When we by faith are buried in the water , and lifted up from the water , we then by our act of faith are included in his death for our sins and they are remitted from our account forever and we are also freed from the law by this death through faith

Paul still helping explain the doctrines of baptism how we died with him in baptism and so ….

“Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? …..Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the blody of Christ;

that ye should be married to another, (the gospel ) even to him who is raised from the dead,( Jesus ) that we should bring forth fruit unto God.”( Matthew 13:18-23)
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:1, 4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭13:18‬ ‭-23

baptism is a simple thing we do it because we hear the gospel of repentance and remission of sins through Jesus Christ and we act upon the belief of Gods oath and it applies to all People

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

important it doesn’t say “ if you believe and aren’t baptized your damned “ but leaves a loophole for believers who aren’t able to or didn’t understand about baptisms importance

belief of the true gospel is enough but baptism is part of its doctrine meant to be heard and believed and acted upon like the entire word of God is meant for

this is his oath in scripture to anyone who steps forth because they believe it and act in faith of getting baptized. Knowing he promised remission of sins through belief and doing what the word says

We’re acting on a pledge from God when we get baptized ( or obey anything else of the gospel we’re taught ) we have Gods word repeatedly assuring us in scripture that we have now been cleansed of our past sins. And are given access to a cleansing flow of mercy and truth available for our current and even future mistakes and short comings through repentance , acknowledgement and then letting God forgive and forget our sins and also leaving them behind our self

none of this was possible under the law this new way of cleansing the sinner as they learn and repent and grow in faith this period of grace given To us letting sinners repent and get right and have thier sins cast away as if they never happened only baptism into Christ offers this belief leads to action
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
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Probably. It seems you view the Trinity as one Person with 3 personalities.

I view the Trinity as 3 distinct Persons.
I see Him as three distinct Persons also; though they are each the same Spirit / essence (even as is told us in the creeds).
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
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Nope. That would be weird. People who talk to themselves have mental problems.
What applies to human beings does not in effect apply to God.

I have proven my case scripturally; if you reject what I am saying then you are rejecting the teaching of holy scripture.

It doesn't mean that you aren't saved, or anything like that.
 
May 22, 2020
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Probably. It seems you view the Trinity as one Person with 3 personalities.

I view the Trinity as 3 distinct Persons.

If you are inferring ....separate.... as we would view humans......not so.
All of God's existence expressed... is the same person.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,887
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I see Him as three distinct Persons also; though they are each the same Spirit / essence (even as is told us in the creeds).
isn’t the idea father , son , and Holy Spirit meet in one the lord Jesus Christ ?

“Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:43‬ ‭

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:12‬ ‭

“When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭19:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I’ve always thought of Jesus as the one place we’re seeing God manifest in one father son and Holy Ghost made one person and shown to all through the gospel but sort of just my own way of thinking
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
83
isn’t the idea father , son , and Holy Spirit meet in one the lord Jesus Christ ?

“Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:43‬ ‭

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:12‬ ‭

“When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭19:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I’ve always thought of Jesus as the one place we’re seeing God manifest in one father son and Holy Ghost made one person and shown to all through the gospel but sort of just my own way of thinking
The members of the Trinity are distinct in that the Father is a Spirit without flesh and so is the Holy Spirit also. The Son being distinct from them in that He is come in the flesh; and the Holy Spirit being distinct from the Father in that He has lived a human life (Luke 23:46) and therefore experientially understands humanity; whereas the pre-incarnate Father, before He descended and ascended, does not have the experiential knowledge of being human (and thus does not know the fear of death).
 
Jan 31, 2021
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I see Him as three distinct Persons also; though they are each the same Spirit / essence (even as is told us in the creeds).
That doesn't make sense to me. If they are the same Spirit, they can't be 3 distinct Persons.
 
Jan 31, 2021
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What applies to human beings does not in effect apply to God.

I have proven my case scripturally; if you reject what I am saying then you are rejecting the teaching of holy scripture.

It doesn't mean that you aren't saved, or anything like that.
You can have it your way, but I refuse to believe that God talks to Himself. The Trinity talks among themselves. That's the only way it makes sense.

If Jesus is the same God as the Father that He prays to, He's just talking to Himself. No need for that. And in the garden of Gethsemane He prayed that His Father would remove His cup. It makes no sense for that prayer if Jesus is also the Father.

And Jesus ended His prayer with "not My will, but YOUR will be done".

Jesus doesn't wear 3 hats.