A Double Standard in Christianity?

[Edify]

Aren't we all one in Christ Jesus(Galatians 3:28)?
Aren't we all to be kings & priests(or a kingdom of priests) unto God(Revelation 5:10)?
Didn't Acts 2 plainly state that on sons & daughters, servants & handmaidens the Holy Spirit would be poured out on them, and they would prophesy(speak for God)?
Aren't we all the sons of God(Romans 8:14, 9:26, 1Jn 3:1)?
Aren't we all right now joint heirs in Christ with equal privileges with God(Romans 8:17, 1 Peter 3:7)?
Does God discriminate? How many scriptures say that God is no respector of persons?

If women are be able to do these things listed according to scripture, why then is it so hard to accept that women can minister with the same Spirit in all things just as the men?
I don't believe for one moment that God called women into a limited second-class ministry.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I think it’s a matter of when we come to this point

“Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:16-21‬ ‭

I think with maturity a lot of the flesh identity becomes insignificant in the church

 

[Aaron56]

Second class? No. But always with covering because of the angels.

 

[Evmur]

Aren't we all one in Christ Jesus(Galatians 3:28)?
Aren't we all to be kings & priests(or a kingdom of priests) unto God(Revelation 5:10)?
Didn't Acts 2 plainly state that on sons & daughters, servants & handmaidens the Holy Spirit would be poured out on them, and they would prophesy(speak for God)?
Aren't we all the sons of God(Romans 8:14, 9:26, 1Jn 3:1)?
Aren't we all right now joint heirs in Christ with equal privileges with God(Romans 8:17, 1 Peter 3:7)?
Does God discriminate? How many scriptures say that God is no respector of persons?

If women are be able to do these things listed according to scripture, why then is it so hard to accept that women can minister with the same Spirit in all things just as the men?
I don't believe for one moment that God called women into a limited second-class ministry.

They can preach and pray publicly, they should wear a covering to do so.

what more can anybody, man or woman want?

 

[Nehemiah6]

I don't believe for one moment that God called women into a limited second-class ministry.

The truth of the matter is that God has indeed given men and women distinct roles and positions in the home and in the church. It is you who have imposed the pejorative term "limited second-class ministry". But that is not the case. So this sounds like another feminist attempt to subvert Scripture.

 

[Blik]

We are flesh and live in a world of the flesh that scripture calls the nations. All nations have laws, just as the kingdom of heaven that Christ told us to belong to has laws. Christ asks us to accept His ways within us, to give up the laws of the kingdoms of the world has if they oppose His laws. That is not easy to do, the world's propaganda pounds the ways of the world into our minds constantly. Many people are not even aware pf this as they follow the world.

The world says to fight for your rights, Christ says to love your enemies and do them good. The world says women should be allowed to lead, God says women have equal importance to men but they need to work with men as a team with men taking the lead. The world says families can be created by man, the Lord says families are created when a man and woman unite. The Lord says not to judge people, but judge what is and isn't sin. The world says to accept sin but judge people by their possessions and appearance.

 

[SteveEpperson]

why then is it so hard to accept that women can minister with the same Spirit in all things just as the men?

Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. 1 Tim. 2:11-12.

It's right there in black and white. This scripture also proves just how far we've gotten from the will of God.

On a parallel subject, women are not to run the household. But many still do.

The fact that men in western society are marginalized shows just how close to the end times we are.

 

[Nehemiah6]

We are flesh and live in a world of the flesh that scripture calls the nations.

If this is a reference to Christians it is totally false. We are human but not in bondage to "the flesh" (the sin nature). Because every believer receives the gift of the Holy Spirit and is indwelt by the Spirit, "sin SHALL NOT have dominion over you".

Getting back to the title of this thread, the only double-standard is in the minds of those that are carnal. God has given women a very high calling to be the best wives and mothers they can possibly be. The Proverbs 30 woman exemplifies this. The positive influence of godly mothers and wives cannot be over-emphasized.

But God has called men to be the spiritual leaders in the home and in the church. And God has forbidden women to (1) preach in the assembly (2) teach in the assembly, and (3) usurp authority within the assembly. And this is because of Eve.

However, because this order has been perverted, we are now seeing all kinds of issues. The husband is indeed the head of the wife, just as Christ is the Head of the Church (see Ephesians 5). And as a result, women are to cover their heads during worship, with the head covering as a symbol of the authority of both Christ and her husband (see 1 Corinthians 11).

 

[justbyfaith]

Aren't we all one in Christ Jesus(Galatians 3:28)?
Aren't we all to be kings & priests(or a kingdom of priests) unto God(Revelation 5:10)?
Didn't Acts 2 plainly state that on sons & daughters, servants & handmaidens the Holy Spirit would be poured out on them, and they would prophesy(speak for God)?
Aren't we all the sons of God(Romans 8:14, 9:26, 1Jn 3:1)?
Aren't we all right now joint heirs in Christ with equal privileges with God(Romans 8:17, 1 Peter 3:7)?
Does God discriminate? How many scriptures say that God is no respector of persons?

If women are be able to do these things listed according to scripture, why then is it so hard to accept that women can minister with the same Spirit in all things just as the men?
I don't believe for one moment that God called women into a limited second-class ministry.

As concerning position in salvation, men and women are equal.

However, there are passages that teach us that women are not to teach or usurp authority over a man, in scripture.

1Ti 2:9, In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
1Ti 2:10, But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
1Ti 2:11, Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1Ti 2:12, But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
1Ti 2:13, For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
1Ti 2:14, And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
1Ti 2:15, Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

1Co 14:33, For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
1Co 14:34, Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
1Co 14:35, And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
1Co 14:36, What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
1Co 14:37, If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
1Co 14:38, But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

 

[Edify]

Please be merciful to me not responding because I have been sick & not able to answer. I'm not much better now. But I felt I needed to be on here to answer any questions or disagreements.

 

[Edify]

The world says women should be allowed to lead, God says women have equal importance to men but they need to work with men as a team with men taking the lead.

Even in the OT there were female prophets who ministered without teams or husbands right beside them.
These OT prophets all basically did the same things, some more than others. Teaching, preaching, saw visions, dreams, & answered kings with wise counsel.
Plus, we can find Biblical evidence of female prophets, OT & NT.

 

[Edify]

Since God didn't mandate female prophets be working under men in the OT, I see no need to do so without scripture evidence in the NT.
Acts 2 plainly says daughters & handmaidens would minister prophecy by the Holy Spirit, so we need to understand that ANY prophetic utterance that's Spirit led is allowable, including teaching & preaching.
Many can say women shouldn't preach, but they can't use absolute, correct scripture to back their claims.
The best anyone can do is abuse the scriptures about husband/wife relationships to negate them. This is a very sorry excuse when some of our best scripture handlers on CC will flimsily squeeze out a single verse out of context to prove their point.
Using terrible TV preachers as examples when most of them are men hardly proves the point either.

 

[Dino246]

Using terrible TV preachers as examples when most of them are men hardly proves the point either.

Sadly, it is common for complementarians to point to the most egregious examples of female preachers for evidence. I have even seen arguments on this board to that effect. Meanwhile, the shameful shenanigans of certain male preachers are not used as evidence that males shouldn't preach. It's certainly a double standard.

 

[Dino246]

As concerning position in salvation, men and women are equal.

However, there are passages that teach us that women are not to teach or usurp authority over a man, in scripture.

1Ti 2:9, In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
1Ti 2:10, But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
1Ti 2:11, Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1Ti 2:12, But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
1Ti 2:13, For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
1Ti 2:14, And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
1Ti 2:15, Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

1Co 14:33, For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
1Co 14:34, Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
1Co 14:35, And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
1Co 14:36, What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
1Co 14:37, If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
1Co 14:38, But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

"Usurp authority" is an unfortunate selection for authentein. It has only the weakest support in contemporary literature. A much more likely translation is seduce. It fits both the cultural context and the textual context. In a culture where women were typically not taught the Scriptures, Paul's words were allowing more participation than the norm, not less. Further, he put a restriction only on "a woman", not "women".

1 Corinthians 11 specifically permits women to speak. If you are claiming that Paul reverses his earlier statement in chapter 14, you need to make sense of it. Also, why does he say, "What? Came the word of God out from you? Or came it unto you only?" Why does he say these particular words in this particular place in his letter? You cannot simply draw a few words out from their context and claim they are a complete truth in themselves, when in their context, they don't make sense.

 

[JohnDB]

Men are hardwired to lead. They, when in their right mind capable and able to lead better than women.

Not that women are incapable or incompetent at it. But men are better than women at it.

However....every time in scripture that women were leaders it wasn't the woman's fault...it was solely the poor spiritual state of the men and people in general that caused God to raise up a woman as their leader.
And the people did well to follow her until such a time as they matured enough for a man to rise up and lead.

 

[Dino246]

Men are hardwired to lead. They, when in their right mind capable and able to lead better than women.

SOME men are hardwired to lead, and that says nothing about their ability to lead well. Some women are hardwired to lead as well. Neither is inherently "better" at it than the other.

I will grant that a greater percentage of men than women aspire to leadership. However, that's not what you said.

Not that women are incapable or incompetent at it. But men are better than women at it.

That's unadulterated sexism. SOME men are better at leadership than other people. SOME WOMEN are better at leadership than other people. Many female leaders are better at leadership than many male leaders.

However....every time in scripture that women were leaders it wasn't the woman's fault...it was solely the poor spiritual state of the men and people in general that caused God to raise up a woman as their leader.
And the people did well to follow her until such a time as they matured enough for a man to rise up and lead.

That is simply not true. There is no hint in Scripture that Deborah was a judge because of a dearth of available and capable men. There is no hint in Scripture that Prisca was a teacher because of a dearth of available and capable men. There is no hint in Scripture that Huldah was a prophet because of a dearth of available and capable men. There is no hint in Scripture that Chloe was a deacon because of a dearth of available and capable men.

I challenge you to provide even one example to support your claim.

Sadly, all you have done is repeat the unscriptural arguments of closed-minded complementarians. I would encourage you to take another look at the relevant Scripture with unbiased eyes.

 

[SteveEpperson]

I have been sick & not able to answer

Then, I will pray for you.

 

[Edify]

It has been true throughout the ages that people can say the same thing over & over until everybody believes it. Lately we have discovered that many of these are false.
To some of you, it might be in your by-laws somewhere that women can't minister, but that's not my fault.

 

[Edify]

Then, I will pray for you.

Thank you. Much appreciated.

 

[TMS]

Aren't we all one in Christ Jesus(Galatians 3:28)?
Aren't we all to be kings & priests(or a kingdom of priests) unto God(Revelation 5:10)?
Didn't Acts 2 plainly state that on sons & daughters, servants & handmaidens the Holy Spirit would be poured out on them, and they would prophesy(speak for God)?
Aren't we all the sons of God(Romans 8:14, 9:26, 1Jn 3:1)?
Aren't we all right now joint heirs in Christ with equal privileges with God(Romans 8:17, 1 Peter 3:7)?
Does God discriminate? How many scriptures say that God is no respector of persons?

If women are be able to do these things listed according to scripture, why then is it so hard to accept that women can minister with the same Spirit in all things just as the men?
I don't believe for one moment that God called women into a limited second-class ministry.

God loves us all.
It is clear that God created males and females differently, Physically and emotionally we are different, We are all loved the same, but we need to accept that there are differences. God chooses the role God gives the gifts, God owns all. Acceptance is the key. If you let this issue eat you away it can be dangerous. Blessed are the meek. Women have done things that men have failed at and women are used by God to do many great and wonderful things. Focus on letting God use you.