How to defend the doctrine of the Holy Trinity

[Absolutely]

Any trinity scholar beholden to truth will state that the concept of trinity is not in the bible. So the axiom that permits trinity to be interpreted is extra biblical. That should be argument enough against trinity. Do not add to the Scriptures. Do not take away from the Scriptures. Punishment will be harsh according to the Bible.

Everyone;

Just do the opposite.

Truth will reign

 

[Absolutely]

I am a Trinity scholar beholden to the truth and I have given biblical substantiation for the doctrine of the Trinity in the following thread:

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/understanding-the-trinity-as-a-doctrine.201406/

Your false doctrine:
"""There is one God (Ephesians 4:6); the Father (1 Corinthians 8:6, James 3:9 (kjv), Romans 15:6, Ephesians 4:6), the Son (Hebrews 1:8-9; John 8:58, Exodus 3:14; John 8:59, John 10:31-33), and the Holy Ghost (Acts 5:3-4, Romans 8:26-27)."""
So now the son is God and co equal?

 

[CS1]

Is it correct to assert that the concept of the Holy Trinity might have been invented by the Roman Catholic Church after all?
First let's define what this concept means,
The Holy Trinity is a doctrine that states that God has three personas namely:
a)The Father
b) The Son
c) The Holy Spirit
The doctrine goes further to state that each of these is God and they are one hence the Three in One and One in Three doctrine.
My challenge to this doctrine is if the doctrine holds then that makes Jesus and The Father equal which is false because
Jesus himself said this in John 14:28
"The Father is Greater than I".
The other challenge is that Jesus never emphasized the doctrine when he introduced the Lord's Prayer in Mathew 6:9-13.
The Holy Spirit is not digged into a lot, the picture of the Holy Spirit in the works of salvation comes in after Jesus ascends into the Father. The only verse that supports this doctrine is Mathew 28:19
"...baptise them in the name of the Father, The son and of The Holy Spirit".
I think this could be a big misinterpretation of why Jesus said this, there is no indication that from this Jesus is God or The Holy Spirit is also God, what are your thoughts and interpretation of the doctrine of the Holy Trinity?

No sir,

The Holy Trinity is NOT a doctrine that states that God has three personas namely:

it is teaching that came from the very word of God of 1. God revealed as The Father the Son and The Holy Spirit is known as the Eternal Godhead.
The idea that it is false to say Jesus is equal with the Father is very much an unlearned statement. The Spirit of Christ is eternal. Jesus when HE said "The Father is Greater than I" Is Jesus the man speaking of what is known as the doctrine of Kenosis. The emptying of oneself which Jesus willfully did to come as the God-man for the salvation of the world. The Body of Jesus is limited but God is not.

Jesus also said IF you have seen me you have seen the Father also you can't use the text out of context to support your bias.

The Holy Spirit of God is known as the Spirit of the Living God which is GOD, Hello, somebody! The Holy Spirit is at work from the Beginning to say otherwise is not Biblical. The Spirit of God is mentioned in the creation account in Genesis chapter 1.

 

[CS1]

My concern is this contradiction that poses itself in the arguments you have put across.Truly if jesus said the Father is greater than I, then that means God is higher and this makes them unequal because God can command Jesus, and He did this by ordering the Son to Create, we see that from the book of John, everything was made possible through the word who is Jesus.
You have to understand that Jesus was already receiving orders from God and executing them even before the world was made. So justifying that the Son was less than God in human form is ruled out. God had an idea, and that idea was "Let us make man in our own image", this idea needs someone to execute, who is that? Jesus Christ. It is as simple as God drawing the plan and Jesus executing it.
Jesus denies being labeled as good
Jesus when they called him Good Teacher, rejected this glory and replied to them saying.... "I am not good, no one is good except my Father who is in heaven ".
I think when Jesus denied this glory, it made him less of a deity, that only The Father is capable of such benovelence that he deserves the title "good", hence God.

Title God goes to the God head being worshipped
When John after being shown what will happen before the end of the age, fell to the feet of the angel who shew him these things and wanted to worship him but the angel ordered him not to worship Jesus or the Spirit, He ordered him to worship the Father(God).

The Holy Spirit knows things the son does not know
The doctrine of the Holy Trinity makes God the highest followed by the Son and lastly the Spirit in position, this is very false because it is written that the Holy Spirit knows the depths of God, depths the Son does not know of for example the end of the world, this he replied when the disciples asked him when he will return and he said unto them "No one knows of that day, not me, not the angels but my Father who is in heaven". But the Holy Spirit is said to be able to search the depths of God, even secrets such as these, He is the witness of God on earth and He will be the prosecutor in that court that will determine the eternal fate of the souls of men.
The Holy Spirit is not a form that God chooses to reveal himself with on earth but he is a different person just like you and me, also the Father and the Son both personified during the transfiguration, Jesus apparel is seen being turned into snow white and the Father's terrifying voice is heard saying
"This is my beloved son with whom i am pleased with, listen to him".
Only God deserves the worship, it was all his plan to redeem mankind by sending his one and only begotten son. Jesus was executing God's plan as he has always done, be blessed.

smh well Bye

 

[justbyfaith]

Your false doctrine:
"""There is one God (Ephesians 4:6); the Father (1 Corinthians 8:6, James 3:9 (kjv), Romans 15:6, Ephesians 4:6), the Son (Hebrews 1:8-9; John 8:58, Exodus 3:14; John 8:59, John 10:31-33), and the Holy Ghost (Acts 5:3-4, Romans 8:26-27)."""
So now the son is God and co equal?

Of course the Son is God and co-equal.

That is sound doctrine.

 

[justbyfaith]

James 2:19 also states that we do well to believe in one God (I guess that I failed to reference that verse in my exposition).

 

[TheLearner]

Read to here: Best way to discuss the Trinity is first understand where others are coming from.

Will each person state their understanding of the Trinity.

I understand the Trinity to be One God who is spirit with three persons within the godhead.

 

[CS1]

Read to here: Best way to discuss the Trinity is first understand where others are coming from.

Will each person state their understanding of the Trinity.

I understand the Trinity to be One God who is the spirit with three persons within the godhead.

1. we cannot fully understand the Divine nature of God. We are limited. Yet, the scriptures speak of God as the Father and The Son and the Holy Spirit. We must be very reverent and come with humility as we seek to know more of Him. Our ability to know Him fully will not happen on this side of heaven.

 

[wattie]

Is it correct to assert that the concept of the Holy Trinity might have been invented by the Roman Catholic Church after all?
First let's define what this concept means,
The Holy Trinity is a doctrine that states that God has three personas namely:
a)The Father
b) The Son
c) The Holy Spirit
The doctrine goes further to state that each of these is God and they are one hence the Three in One and One in Three doctrine.
My challenge to this doctrine is if the doctrine holds then that makes Jesus and The Father equal which is false because
Jesus himself said this in John 14:28
"The Father is Greater than I".
The other challenge is that Jesus never emphasized the doctrine when he introduced the Lord's Prayer in Mathew 6:9-13.
The Holy Spirit is not digged into a lot, the picture of the Holy Spirit in the works of salvation comes in after Jesus ascends into the Father. The only verse that supports this doctrine is Mathew 28:19
"...baptise them in the name of the Father, The son and of The Holy Spirit".
I think this could be a big misinterpretation of why Jesus said this, there is no indication that from this Jesus is God or The Holy Spirit is also God, what are your thoughts and interpretation of the doctrine of the Holy Trinity?

Weeeeell... If you look at the context of Jesus saying the Father is greater....

He ascends to one with the Father, equal, shortly after speaking with the disciples.

So... The Father was greater in POSITION, not essence!

The president is greater than me... Is he ontogically superior? Nope. He is in a greater office.

 

[shittim]

ok ok... I looked it up... still don't think I can use it with the proper meaning! lol!
Thanks for stretching my brain...
ontological

ŏn′tə-lŏj′ĭ-kəl
adjective

1. Of or relating to ontology.
2. Of or relating to essence or the nature of being.
3. Of or relating to the argument for the existence of God holding that the existence of the concept of God entails the existence of God.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition.

More at Wordnik

 

[bluto]

Was God referring to the Holy Trinity in creation when He said these words "Let us make ", the us refers to the Son and the Holy Ghost? If that is the case then the doctrine holds but scholars shouldn't dig too much into the doctrine, it could cause confusions.

In a word, "Yes." You may ask, "How do I know?" It says at Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. I want you to notice something. At vs3, "Then God said." At vs 4, "And God saw etc." At vs5, "And God called the light day etc." At vs6, "And God said etc." At vs7, And God made the expanse etc. Vs8, And God called etc. Vs9, And God said etc."

Notice I did not include Genesis 1:2, why? It says, "And the earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God, was moving over the surface of the waters." Here we are introduced to God the Holy Spirit. Tell me why vs2 did not just say, "and God was moving over the surface of the waters." You have two persons identified here.

So what about Jesus Christ, the Son of God? Where does He fit in to the "Us" at Genesis 1:26? John 1 in the New Testament has the answer. At John 1:1 it says, "In the beginning was the Word/Logos, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:2-3, "He was in the beginning with God." Vs3, "ALL things came into being by Him, and apart (or without Him) NOTHING came into being that has come into being."

So what's the point? Both Genesis 1:1 and John 1:1 start out with the same three words. Now watch this Timothy! The main thought of "In the beginning" at Genesis 1:1 is on WHAT HAPPENED "in the beginning." And the main thought of "in the beginning" at John 1:1 is WHO EXISTED "in the beginning.

So the reality is the fact that John's beginning "antecedes" the Genesis "beginning." Or to put it another way, Jesus Christ pre-existed His incarnation. Does that make sense to you? One more thing I want to address. You stated if Jesus is God how come He did not know the day and hour of His coming?

Please read Philippians 2:5-8. This is where Jesus Christ, who was always God took on another form of that of a bond-servant/man. As a man He was fully was committed to His Father in every single area of His life, just like we are suppose to live in harmony with God. Jesus was our example which Philippians 2:5 states. "Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus." So again, does this make sense to you?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[Aaron56]

Humility and submission are part of God.

The Father chose to appear within a man.
The Son only does what He sees His Father doing.
The Spirit does not speak His own thoughts, only what He hears.

The Father will never ask us to be something He is not.

 

[justbyfaith]

1. we cannot fully understand the Divine nature of God. We are limited. Yet, the scriptures speak of God as the Father and The Son and the Holy Spirit. We must be very reverent and come with humility as we seek to know more of Him. Our ability to know Him fully will not happen on this side of heaven.

I believe that it is indeed possible to know what the doctrine entails in its entirety while we are still on the earth and that we have a responsibility to seek to understand it.

Eph 3:3, How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
Eph 3:4, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/understanding-the-trinity-as-a-doctrine.201406/

 

[Nehemiah6]

The Father chose to appear within a man.

That is incorrect. No man has seen God the Father at any time. It was the Son (who is the Word) who took the form of a Man, yet thought it not robbery to be equal with God the Father. Indeed God the Father addressed Jesus the Son as GOD (THEOS).

 

[justbyfaith]

That is incorrect. No man has seen God the Father at any time. It was the Son (who is the Word) who took the form of a Man, yet thought it not robbery to be equal with God the Father. Indeed God the Father addressed Jesus the Son as GOD (THEOS).

Consider that John 1:18 says that the only begotten Son has declared the Father.

Jhn 14:7, If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Jhn 14:8, Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Jhn 14:9, Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Jhn 14:10, Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Jhn 14:11, Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

 

[TheLearner]

1. we cannot fully understand the Divine nature of God. We are limited. Yet, the scriptures speak of God as the Father and The Son and the Holy Spirit. We must be very reverent and come with humility as we seek to know more of Him. Our ability to know Him fully will not happen on this side of heaven.

I understand the basics of definition.

 

[TheLearner]

 

[LactoseIntolerant]

I am a Trinity scholar beholden to the truth and I have given biblical substantiation for the doctrine of the Trinity in the following thread:

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/understanding-the-trinity-as-a-doctrine.201406/

Hello justbyfaith, like I said last on that thread, we have different standards of truth. Conjectures not consistent with the Scriptures are rejected.

 

[LactoseIntolerant]

Everyone;

Just do the opposite.

Truth will reign

Did you just called the truth a lie? Did you just teach all to ignore the Scriptures? Matt 12:32.
You are quite fearless.

 

[CS1]

I believe that it is indeed possible to know what the doctrine entails in its entirety while we are still on the earth and that we have a responsibility to seek to understand it.

Eph 3:3, How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
Eph 3:4, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/understanding-the-trinity-as-a-doctrine.201406/

Actual, the Scriptures say the Godhead is a mystery.

What we can know by revelation is :

• General revelation by Creation read Romans chapter 1
• Special revelation The word of God
• Illumination from the relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit.

because we are limited and God is not limited, we are unable to fully know about the Divine NATURE OF GOD.
We from His creation and word and salvation receive enough for righteous living and appropriate worship.
TO sat we can know all is very much untrue.