What are you thoughts on Annihilation?

[SaltwaterGirl]

Ezekiel 28 is referring to the seed of the serpent. "You are a man and not a god"
Satan is indwelling a man. The one referred to as antichrist. His physical aspect will indeed be reduced to ashes.
Satan is a spirit.

Revelation 20 describes his release from prison and final sentence.
Vs 10 describes his fate. It doesn't say he will be no more.

And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet are too, and they will be tormented there day and night forever and ever.

Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more. - Ezekiel 28:18-19 (KJV)

This is all about Satan.

 

[SaltwaterGirl]

Ezekiel 28 is referring to the seed of the serpent. "You are a man and not a god"
Satan is indwelling a man. The one referred to as antichrist. His physical aspect will indeed be reduced to ashes.
Satan is a spirit.

Satan is the Antichrist.

 

[justbyfaith]

Satan is the Antichrist.

Actually, the Antichrist will be in the lake of fire for the 1,000 years that satan will be bound in the bottomless pit; according to the book of Revelation (20:2-3). The devil will then be cast into the lake of fire beside the Antichrist and the false prophet (Revelation 20:10).

And therefore the Antichrist cannot be satan.

A servant of his, most definitely.

 

[Radius]

Fully irrelevant. The rich man was NOT in lake of fire. He was in a place where the unsaved dead wait until the GWTJ. No one disputes where the rich man was was unpleasant.

Did I say the rich man was in hell? He was in hades. The torment side, while Lazarus was on the paradise side/Abraham's bosom

 

[BibleStudent60]

I believe in eternal torment, as probably most of us do here. But this guy lays out a pretty good argument for annihilation.

A simple question can be asked with a simple question: What is the opposite of life? Death.

So where does the view of being tortured in death come from? The penalty of sin is death, not the ongoing torture. Finally, can one be dead and be tortured? If you are tortured by eternal flames, then you must have some brain activity and the ability to feel, which would mean that you are not really dead? I scratch my head in understanding the logic...

 

[Kino]

Sorry, I just don't buy it. I do want to state that I still think people believing in an everlasting hell is a reasonable position. It's just not my position anymore. I'm not trying to pick fights.

My only point to jump in on this forum is that the annihilation position has some points to consider and people should be willing to consider it. You don't have to change your mind, but people are walking away from the church. I believe it's primarily because they have questions about the Bible and faith and they typically receive dogma and pithy statements. Those things don't always prove to get people through hard times.

Anyways... rant over. Have a lovely day.

 

[Runningman]

Because the Bible has patterns, and in NO OTHER parable did Jesus use actual names. It was always a woman, or a man, or a servant or bridesmaid.

"If a parable contains a name then it isn't a parable" is not sound reasoning. It's one of those "correlation implies causation" logical fallacies.

It is well known that Jesus spoke to those, who were not His 12 disciples, using parables:

Matthew 13:34-35
34All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:
35That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

In the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, Jesus was speaking to people who were not His disciples. Just look it up. There's no way Luke 16:19-31 is not a parable.

 

[ewq1938]

Did I say the rich man was in hell?

You are using it to support the eternal torture doctrine, so yes.

He was in hades. The torment side, while Lazarus was on the paradise side/Abraham's bosom

Hades and paradise are two separate places not two parts of one place. Paradise is way of speaking of heaven and heaven is not inside of hades.

 

[Radius]

You are using it to support the eternal torture doctrine, so yes.




Hades and paradise are two separate places not two parts of one place. Paradise is way of speaking of heaven and heaven is not inside of hades.

Please stop strawmanning me. I am not using anything to support eternal torture doctrine. A simple explanation is that once an unsaved soul goes to hades after death he stays there until the Judgment, at which time he is judged and then put to second death in hell. You are putting words in my mouth and I'm not sure why. I'm not arguing for or against eternal torture in this thread.

As for your second comment. Yes and No. Hades IS one place where TWO realities existed: the abode of the dead. I say existed in past tense because the paradise side is evacuated now since Christ's ascension. Hades is one place that was divided by a chasm. On one side there was torment, and on the other the saved souls waited for Christ in peace and comfort.

This is all found in your Bible.

 

[justbyfaith]

Sorry, I just don't buy it. I do want to state that I still think people believing in an everlasting hell is a reasonable position. It's just not my position anymore. I'm not trying to pick fights.

My only point to jump in on this forum is that the annihilation position has some points to consider and people should be willing to consider it. You don't have to change your mind, but people are walking away from the church. I believe it's primarily because they have questions about the Bible and faith and they typically receive dogma and pithy statements. Those things don't always prove to get people through hard times.

Anyways... rant over. Have a lovely day.

2Ti 4:1, I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2Ti 4:2, Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3, For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4, And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

 

[ewq1938]

As for your second comment. Yes and No. Hades IS one place where TWO realities existed: the abode of the dead. I say existed in past tense because the paradise side is evacuated now since Christ's ascension.

No, Hades was never one place with two parts. Hades is one place and always has been that way. Paradise was NEVER in Hades. Paraduise is heaven and heaven has never been elserwhere nor evacuated.

Hades.......................................................................................has always been far away from..................................................................................................Paradise/Heaven

 

[justbyfaith]

No, Hades was never one place with two parts. Hades is one place and always has been that way. Paradise was NEVER in Hades. Paraduise is heaven and heaven has never been elserwhere nor evacuated.

Hades.......................................................................................has always been far away from..................................................................................................Paradise/Heaven

When Jesus died on the Cross did He go to hell for three days and nights, or to heaven?

Because He said to the thief, Today you will be with me in paradise.

What does today mean, in your opinion?

 

[Radius]

No, Hades was never one place with two parts. Hades is one place and always has been that way. Paradise was NEVER in Hades. Paraduise is heaven and heaven has never been elserwhere nor evacuated.

Hades.......................................................................................has always been far away from..................................................................................................Paradise/Heaven

I don't know what to tell you except to reexamine Luke 16 where it clearly teaches that the paradise side was so close to the torment side of Sheol that they could communicate. Clearly they were in close proximity to each other.

 

[ewq1938]

I don't know what to tell you except to reexamine Luke 16 where it clearly teaches that the paradise side was so close to the torment side of Sheol that they could communicate. Clearly they were in close proximity to each other.

Hades is not split in two parts. Hades was separated from Paradise by a great gulf:

Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.


Luk 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

That means there are two different places for the dead. One Hades. The is Paradise. Paradise is not nor ever was in Hades.

 

[Christopher_bearer_of]

@Yashua 's Post #241 ,

To answer your question, I point you to what I'd said in my Posts #196 and more condensed (same) in Post #199, which I will C&P here:


[quoting excerpt from those posts]


...in other words, "hell/hades" (and "death") is what PRECEDES this point in the chronology [/GWTj point in time],

...and thus what FOLLOWS this point in the chronology is "death and hell/hades DELIVERED UP the DEAD that were in them" for this final carrying out of the sentence, so to speak, of which this passage states that it ('the lake of fire') is:

"for ever and ever"/"unto the ages [plural] of the ages [plural]" [<--which phrase ALWAYS has THE SAME MEANING in ALL 21x it is used!]







____________


IOW, there are not "TWO COMPARTMENTS" in the lake of fire (one for the three persons listed as "THEY" in v.10, and another for those referred to in v.15 who are said to ALSO be "cast in" at this point. NO.)



"And the devil, the one deceiving them, was cast into the lake of fire and of sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet also are; and they will be tormented day and night to/unto the ages of the ages." - Rev20:10

I know I'm just a noob and all on this forum but your posts are SO hard to read. You put all this formatting into them thinking they are emphasizing your point but they don't... Personally, my eye just skips past them all.
Why not just make your point and then back it up like everyone else does? I'm assuming that your goal is not to make everyone think you're smarter than everyone else, but is too educate.
In love....

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Welcome to CC @Christopher_bearer_of ,



Let me ask you this:

what do you believe Revelation 20:10 means when it says,

"And the devil, the one deceiving them, was cast into the lake of fire and of sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet also are; and they will be tormented day and night to / unto the ages of the ages." [i.e. "forever and ever"]





Hope to see you around the boards. = )

 

[ewq1938]

I know I'm just a noob and all on this forum but your posts are SO hard to read. You put all this formatting into them thinking they are emphasizing your point but they don't... Personally, my eye just skips past them all.
Why not just make your point and then back it up like everyone else does? I'm assuming that your goal is not to make everyone think you're smarter than everyone else, but is too educate.
In love....

A thousand ppl have said same things to them...hasn't changed how they post.

 

[Christopher_bearer_of]

Something as detestable as sacrificing children in the fire to Molech didn’t enter into the mind and heart of God (as written in Jeremiah); it is something that He hates (as written in Deuteronomy); it is something He told them not to do because it would profane His name. Burning people in a literal fire forever in a place called hell/Lake of Fire would make God a hypocrite, and contradict the statements made in Deuteronomy, for it’s something God hates, arouses His anger, and profanes His holy Name.

The difference here is that children have no choice. Someone is sacrificing them.
If someone goes to eternal punishment it is because they chose too.
Can any man have an excuse? All are given the choice whether or not it seems that way. Everything will be made crystal clear, including those choices

 

[Christopher_bearer_of]

Welcome to CC @Christopher_bearer_of ,



Let me ask you this:

what do you believe Revelation 20:10 means when it says,

"And the devil, the one deceiving them, was cast into the lake of fire and of sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet also are; and they will be tormented day and night to / unto the ages of the ages." [i.e. "forever and ever"]





Hope to see you around the boards. = )

I really don't know for sure.
This is pure fluff but I've always hoped eternal hell was not true, because it is horrible, but if it is true then the there is a good reason for it because God created it.
There are many things that are unknowable. We are stuck with these finite minds and we are trying to understand things beyond us.
If I had to say....I would say eternal punishment.
People say DEATH IS DEATH IS FINAL but the 1st death, which is seen as final by a large % of humanity, is not destruction, so who knows about the 2nd?
People say 'consumed therefore gone', but who we are to say what happens in reality? We live on a rock.

Fortunately, my salvation does not rest on my answer.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ @Christopher_bearer_of , you said, "I really don't know for sure."


You're not alone, in that,... many people don't.