Our new relationship to the law.

[eternally-gratefull]

I suppose that if I commit adultery with my neighbor's wife, kill my neighbor, steal from my neighbor, bear false witness against my neighbor, and/or covet my neighbor's belongings, that the end thereof is the way of life.

Do you see how ridiculous your position is?

Paul teaches us that we are not justified by the law and that if anyone thinks that they are justified by the law, they have fallen from grace.

However, if I know that I know that I know that I am justified through faith in the blood of Jesus Christ, I can move forward and onward towards "obedience to the faith" (Romans 1:5) and "the obedience of faith" (Romans 16:26).

If you read 1 John 3:4,9, I think that you might see that those who are born of God are law-abiding citizens of the kingdom of heaven. These are not the only verses that substantiate this.

What you need to realize is that if we love Jesus, we will obey His commandments (John 14:15, John 15:10). And Jesus is the God also of the Old Testament impaho.

The motivation is not to save yourself through works. It is out of gratitude because He has saved you.

I believe it is a false teaching to discourage believers from being obedient to the moral tenets of the law.

Would you exhort Christians to become murderers?

The love of God in the Christian's heart means that he will never violate that law in the ten commandments; or any other law (Romans 13:8-10)

Are you sinless my friend?

If not. Why are you attacking other people who sin?

Your legalism is showing so strongly. I am dumbfounded as t why you can not see it

My goal is to love others and God as he loved me. Not looking at my life 24/7 trying to stop sin. If thats all I do in my life. I am to busy serving self. And have no time to serve Gpd

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Those who are born of God "do not" and "cannot" commit sin (1 John 3:9).

We are not obligated to walk according to the flesh (Romans 8:12 (NLT)).

If we walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit, then the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us (Romans 8:4).

Yet if we stumble in one point of the law, we are breaking all of it.

Therefore, if we stumble at one point, how is the righteousness of the law fulfilled in us?

We are told in holy scripture that we do not have to fall (Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, 1 john 2:10, Romans 8:12).

Of course no one can be perfectly obedient to the letter of the law (Galatians 6:13).

However, we are no longer bound by the oldness of the letter but are free to obey the newness of the spirit of what is written (Romans 7:6).

Again, are you sinless?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

They are dead to the law as concerning condemnation and the wet paint principle;

They are not dead to it as concerning obedience.

If anyone is born again, they do not violate any of the laws that are spoken of in Romans 13:8-10 as being the fulfillment of "love thy neighbor as thyself".

If they are not dead concerning obedience, they are bound to live according to the law. WHich means the are not saved from the curse of the law

because who ever is not perfect is guilty of the law.

You can;t have it both ways my friend

 

[justbyfaith]

Are you sinless my friend?

If not. Why are you attacking other people who sin?

Your legalism is showing so strongly. I am dumbfounded as t why you can not see it

My goal is to love others and God as he loved me. Not looking at my life 24/7 trying to stop sin. If thats all I do in my life. I am to busy serving self. And have no time to serve Gpd

The law is a schoolmaster to lead men to Christ (Galatians 3:24, Romans 3:20, Psalms 19:7 (kjv)).

Those who work iniquity will be cast into the furnace of fire (Matthew 13:41-42, 13:49-50, 7:21-23, 25:41).

I don't want people to be cast there; so I warn them about the consequences of sinning against the Lord.

I am not sinless (1 John 1:8); although I may be perfect (Hebrews 10:14 (kjv), 1 Corinthians 4:4).

I certainly do not believe that anyone is justified through law-keeping; so I don't find that I am legalistic.

However, I do believe that if anyone is truly born again, they will be a law-abiding citizen of the kingdom of heaven (1 John 3:4,9; Galatians 5:22-23; Romans 8:4).

In Titus 3:3-7, we find that if anyone is regenerated and renewed by the Holy Ghost, that their life will change and their very disposition will be changed away from sin and towards holiness.

Since sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4), I consider that this also means that they will become law-abiding citizens of the kingdom of heaven because they have been regenerated and renewed.

And I also believe in your methods.

If you are truly seeking to love the Lord your God with all of your heart, mind, soul, and strength; and your neighbor as yourself; then I believe that you will not be violating any law.

The law is the specifics of the love of God for those who have the love of the Lord in their hearts. You can know more specifically how to love God and neighbor if you look into the perfect law of liberty and continue in it (see James 1:22-25).

 

[justbyfaith]

Again, are you sinless?

1Jo 1:8, If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Heb 10:14, For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

1Co 4:3, But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
1Co 4:4, For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.

Job 9:21, Though I were perfect, yet would I not know my soul: I would despise my life.

 

[justbyfaith]

If they are not dead concerning obedience, they are bound to live according to the law. WHich means the are not saved from the curse of the law

because who ever is not perfect is guilty of the law.

You can;t have it both ways my friend

There is no condemnation if we fail to obey the law perfectly;

However, for the believer, the love of the Lord is shed abroad in the heart (Romans 5:5);

And this love is the fulfilling of the law (Romans 13:8-10, Romans 8:4).

 

[BroTan]

I would only point out what it says in Romans 7:6, @BroTan.

Rom 7:6, But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

I agree but that's the animal sacrificial laws we are deliver from you quoting from Paul in (Rom 7:6), not the Ten Commandments laws, Statues and Judgements.


Let's take look at some Ten Commandment laws in these verses from Paul...
For example Paul said in "1 Corinthians 6:9" Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Let continue with Paul. Let go into Galatians 5: Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Now Paul said in Ephesians 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; 5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Paul said in 1 Thessalonians 4:7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness. Paul told you to; (2Tim. 2:15) Study to shew thyself approved unto God, (not man) a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. You must rightfully divide the word of God, you must find out where every thing fits because fit it does. When Paul talks about being saved, he’s speaking of the creation being save from hell fire. The Death that Adam cause the creation was the second death, not the first, there would not have been a white throne judgement if we didn't have grace.

 

[justbyfaith]

If anyone consistently commits the sins that you have mentioned, then they are not born again and therefore they are not forgiven.

But there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ; who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit (Romans 8:1).

If I am truly born again (and therefore have a basic walk according to the Spirit), then I have an unshakable identity in Christ...that I am righteous...even if I blow it (Romans 4:5).

The exhortation is, that, now that you have this unshakable identity...that you are righteous...go and live like it (1 John 3:7, Romans 5:19, Matthew 5:6).

 

[justbyfaith]

And Romans 7:6 is speaking of all the law...not just the laws about animal sacrifices.

Because we are forgiven of past, present, and future sins...

God the Father looks down on the born again believer and sees the blood and righteousness of His Son.

 

[CorrectiveLens]

I agree that it is all motivated by love. Our righteousness is completely found in what Jesus did for us. It is a gift that we can not gain but our own works. To pursue obeying the law because the Spirit leads us or convicts us to is not the same as obeying it to achieve salvation. If i obey the law because i love Jesus i am not doing anything wrong. Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Joh_15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
1Jn_5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn_5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
The commandments are not the enemy, it is the motivation for keeping them.
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

The problem is that most people don't know the difference between the Spirit of the law and the letter of the law.

Romans 15: 10 "If you keep my commandments, you shall abide in my love, even as I have kept my Father's commandments , and abide in His love"
This is not an if -then statement. It should be interpreted as " If you keep my commandments, it's because you are abiding in my love."

Romans 15: 12 "This is my commandment, that you love one another, as I have loved you."

Matt 22: 36-40 " Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord, thy God, with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

Notice that we are created in God's image becaause we have a heart, mind, and spirit.
Matt 7: 12 " Therefore, all things whatever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them; for this is the law and the prophets."

2 John 1: 5-6 "And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another. And this is love, that we walk after His commandments. This is the commandment, that, as ye have heard from the beginning ( that we love one another), ye should walk in it. "

In other words , if you do everything with love in your heart, you are obeying God's commandments. Read 1 Cor 13: 1-8, 13 . If you obey the letter of the law and have not love, it won't do you any good.

1 Tim 1: 5 "Now the end of the commandments is love out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned, "

1 Thess 4 : 9 " But, as touching brotherly love, ye need not that I write unto you; for ye yourselves are taught of (by) God to love one another."

Col 3: 14 "And above all these things put on love, which is the bond of perfectness."

Eph 1: 4 " According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him, in love.

We naturally do not posses this love.

Before the world was, Jesus was full of the Father's Spirit.

John 17: 5 "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with Thee before the world was.

When you are baptized in the name of the Father, you are given the repentance necessary to turn to Him for forgiveness of sins through belief in His plan through Jesus Christ. When you believe and put your trust in Jesus for the forgivenes of sins , that the Father owes Him life because being perfect, He wasn't supposed to die , then you are baptized in the name of Jesus. You then receive the Father's Spirit which was given to Jesus and you become one with the Father and Son because you become part of the spiritual body of Christ. You are baptized in the name of the Holy Spirit when the Father's Spirit through Jesus Christ fills your heart with the love necessary to be perfected and accepted.

If you would like scripture for the statements above, let me know and I would be happy to give them to you.

 

[justbyfaith]

Romans 15: 10 "If you keep my commandments, you shall abide in my love, even as I have kept my Father's commandments , and abide in His love"
This is not an if -then statement.

It appears to be an if-then statement. We do not want to change the scriptures to fit our theology; rather we want to read from the holy scriptures what the text actually says. The former is eisegesis; the latter exegesis.

So I believe that Jesus is actually saying that if we obey His commandments we will be practically living out His love.

If someone is obedient then that is the love of God, is what Jesus is saying.

In other words , if you do everything with love in your heart, you are obeying God's commandments. Read 1 Cor 13: 1-8, 13 . If you obey the letter of the law and have not love, it won't do you any good.

I can say that I feel lovey-dovey towards people and yet if I do not obey the commandments, I am not loving them in practicality.

Someone who is high on liquor may feel like they love everyone in the world; but because they are not walking practically according to God's commandments, there is no reality to the love that they profess.

1Jo 5:2, By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jo 5:3, For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

2Jo 1:6, And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

Rom 13:8, Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9, For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10, Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

If you would like scripture for the statements above, let me know and I would be happy to give them to you.

Yes, concerning this statement:

that the Father owes Him life

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The law is a schoolmaster to lead men to Christ (Galatians 3:24, Romans 3:20, Psalms 19:7 (kjv)).

Those who work iniquity will be cast into the furnace of fire (Matthew 13:41-42, 13:49-50, 7:21-23, 25:41).

I don't want people to be cast there; so I warn them about the consequences of sinning against the Lord.

I am not sinless (1 John 1:8); although I may be perfect (Hebrews 10:14 (kjv), 1 Corinthians 4:4).

I certainly do not believe that anyone is justified through law-keeping; so I don't find that I am legalistic.

However, I do believe that if anyone is truly born again, they will be a law-abiding citizen of the kingdom of heaven (1 John 3:4,9; Galatians 5:22-23; Romans 8:4).

In Titus 3:3-7, we find that if anyone is regenerated and renewed by the Holy Ghost, that their life will change and their very disposition will be changed away from sin and towards holiness.

Since sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4), I consider that this also means that they will become law-abiding citizens of the kingdom of heaven because they have been regenerated and renewed.

And I also believe in your methods.

If you are truly seeking to love the Lord your God with all of your heart, mind, soul, and strength; and your neighbor as yourself; then I believe that you will not be violating any law.

The law is the specifics of the love of God for those who have the love of the Lord in their hearts. You can know more specifically how to love God and neighbor if you look into the perfect law of liberty and continue in it (see James 1:22-25).

If you don;t want people to be cast to the fire GIVE THEM THE GOSPEL

Stoping sin has never saved anyone.

Your legalism is there for all to see.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

1Jo 1:8, If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Heb 10:14, For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

1Co 4:3, But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
1Co 4:4, For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.

Job 9:21, Though I were perfect, yet would I not know my soul: I would despise my life.

So I guess you need to judge yourself then. Because your just as guilty as those you judge.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

There is no condemnation if we fail to obey the law perfectly;

However, for the believer, the love of the Lord is shed abroad in the heart (Romans 5:5);

And this love is the fulfilling of the law (Romans 13:8-10, Romans 8:4).

YOU CAN”T KEEP THE LAW

Wake up my friend.

Look to Christ. Not to Moses

 

[CorrectiveLens]

It appears to be an if-then statement. We do not want to change the scriptures to fit our theology; rather we want to read from the holy scriptures what the text actually says. The former is eisegesis; the latter exegesis.

So I believe that Jesus is actually saying that if we obey His commandments we will be practically living out His love.

If someone is obedient then that is the love of God, is what Jesus is saying.



I can say that I feel lovey-dovey towards people and yet if I do not obey the commandments, I am not loving them in practicality.

Someone who is high on liquor may feel like they love everyone in the world; but because they are not walking practically according to God's commandments, there is no reality to the love that they profess.

1Jo 5:2, By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jo 5:3, For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

2Jo 1:6, And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

Rom 13:8, Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9, For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10, Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.



Yes, concerning this statement:

Feeling lovey-dovey and being high on liquor is not the same kind of love that the Father and Son bestows through the Holy Spirit. I guess you have to have it in order to understand it. When you have it , your desire is to do the Father's will and to know God through His Word. This love is not just a feeling. It is the motive for all action and it is directed first to God and then to all who you affect.
Concerning the scripture that you asked for, why else would Jesus' death give eternal life?

 

[justbyfaith]

If you don;t want people to be cast to the fire GIVE THEM THE GOSPEL

Stoping sin has never saved anyone.

Your legalism is there for all to see.

Those who work iniquity will be cast into the furnace of fire (Matthew 13:41-42; Matthew 7:21-23; Matthew 25:41).

Jesus came to save His people from their sins (Matthew 1:21) and to redeem them from all iniquity (Titus 2:13-15).

 

[justbyfaith]

So I guess you need to judge yourself then. Because your just as guilty as those you judge.

Who have I judged?

Declaring the judgments of the Lord is not the same thing as judging anyone.

I have not pointed the finger at anyone.

Use the quote feature and bring to the forefront any post where I have done so.

 

[justbyfaith]

YOU CAN”T KEEP THE LAW

Wake up my friend.

Look to Christ. Not to Moses

I agree that the letter of the law cannot be kept (Galatians 6:13).

However, if anyone is in Christ, and walks not after the flesh but after the Spirit, the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in them (Romans 8:4).

Not in the oldness of the letter but in the newness of the spirit (Romans 7:6).

See also 1 John 3:4-9 in light of what is spoken above.

 

[justbyfaith]

I guess you have to have it in order to understand it.

I have it.

Concerning the scripture that you asked for, why else would Jesus' death give eternal life?

So this means that the Father owes His life to Jesus?

 

[CorrectiveLens]

I have it.



So this means that the Father owes His life to Jesus?

???????