The Falling Away - pre-trib rapture or ???
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FreeGrace2 said:
OK then. Show me the verses. (referring to Jesus taking resurrected believers to heaven.
This is not an answer, nor a verse.
Need some context here. What verse are you thinking about?
OK then. Show me the verses. (referring to Jesus taking resurrected believers to heaven.
This is not an answer, nor a verse.
Need some context here. What verse are you thinking about?
What verse are you thinking about?
Where do you get that He was "a mile into the heavens"?? You've got quite an imagination there.
He was IN a boat, floating on water that was ON earth. He never left earth, if you think that his boat had wings and flew above the flood.
Secondly, why do you call the flood a tribulation? Where does the Bible describe the flood as a tribulation?
OK. Very vivid dreams.
No tribulation with either men. And neither men were removed from earth. But there's those very vivid dreams of yours, huh.
Speaking of "tribulation", in Noah's case, the entire population of the earth were killed. Same for Lot; everyone in the 2 cities were killed.
But, in the Great Tribulation of Revelation, only about half the earth's population is killed. So, where do the rest of the population go when Jesus comes back?
Do you have any ideas?
What you CANNOT show from Scripture is Jesus coming to the sky above earth, and taking resurrected believers up to heaven.
And THAT is the core principle of the "pre-trib theory".
Where do you get that He was "a mile into the heavens"?? You've got quite an imagination there.
He was IN a boat, floating on water that was ON earth. He never left earth, if you think that his boat had wings and flew above the flood.
Secondly, why do you call the flood a tribulation? Where does the Bible describe the flood as a tribulation?
OK. Very vivid dreams.
No tribulation with either men. And neither men were removed from earth. But there's those very vivid dreams of yours, huh.
Speaking of "tribulation", in Noah's case, the entire population of the earth were killed. Same for Lot; everyone in the 2 cities were killed.
But, in the Great Tribulation of Revelation, only about half the earth's population is killed. So, where do the rest of the population go when Jesus comes back?
Do you have any ideas?
What you CANNOT show from Scripture is Jesus coming to the sky above earth, and taking resurrected believers up to heaven.
And THAT is the core principle of the "pre-trib theory".
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Hey!
Noah preached 500 years before the flood to unbelievers, and he was scoffed at , ridiculed, because it never rained, then the flood came....
Bring it current, there are surely those in the world who do not beleive the Gospel of Christ and scoff at the works of our Lord and Saviour......people are dying in contries because of the faith....so yes, seems things are coming to Head..... not to mention natural disasters, "unexplained" things in the heaven..etc....
Lot, was on levels, Lot fended off the sex offenders, Abraham beseeched Yahweh for him, with Abraham and Lot I think of what Jude said :
Jude 1:22 And of some have compassion , making a difference :
Jude 1:23 And others save with fear , pulling [them] out of the fire ; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh .
The angels led them to sure safety....
Those who are His should have no less expectation"S"
1 Corinthians 2:9 KJV: But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
The world as of right NOW are oblivious to whats coming, why?
they ARE eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage
the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
Those who are His are to not get wrap up with the abouve stuff, "cares of this world" :
Luke 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and [so] that day come upon you unawares.
Luke 21:35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
God Bless!!!!
Noah preached 500 years before the flood to unbelievers, and he was scoffed at , ridiculed, because it never rained, then the flood came....
Bring it current, there are surely those in the world who do not beleive the Gospel of Christ and scoff at the works of our Lord and Saviour......people are dying in contries because of the faith....so yes, seems things are coming to Head..... not to mention natural disasters, "unexplained" things in the heaven..etc....
Lot, was on levels, Lot fended off the sex offenders, Abraham beseeched Yahweh for him, with Abraham and Lot I think of what Jude said :
Jude 1:22 And of some have compassion , making a difference :
Jude 1:23 And others save with fear , pulling [them] out of the fire ; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh .
The angels led them to sure safety....
Those who are His should have no less expectation"S"
1 Corinthians 2:9 KJV: But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
The world as of right NOW are oblivious to whats coming, why?
they ARE eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage
the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
Those who are His are to not get wrap up with the abouve stuff, "cares of this world" :
Luke 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and [so] that day come upon you unawares.
Luke 21:35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
God Bless!!!!
Like manner from ;
acts 1
""""9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven."""
It devastates the non pretrib rapture positions
Jesus returns in like manner.
Want it changed?
Just add horses, destroyed planet, no believers present, all of earth with the mark of the beast. No buying/selling, Then change Jesus into a warrior killing his enemies.
Oh yeah....
With the correct reframing we all can become anti pretrib rapture
acts 1
""""9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven."""
It devastates the non pretrib rapture positions
Jesus returns in like manner.
Want it changed?
Just add horses, destroyed planet, no believers present, all of earth with the mark of the beast. No buying/selling, Then change Jesus into a warrior killing his enemies.
Oh yeah....
With the correct reframing we all can become anti pretrib rapture
FreeGrace2 said:
OK then. Show me the verses. (referring to Jesus taking resurrected believers to heaven.
lol. Where in Acts 1 did Jesus take resurrected believers to heaven with Him???
Actually, 2 Thess 2:1-3 devastates the pretrib theory.
Don't need to have anything changed. The Bible is quite clear enough. What a refresher?
Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.
This is clear; there is ONE resurrection for the saved and ONE resurrection for the unsaved.
1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
This verse is clear; regarding the resurrection of the saved, Jesus was resurrected as firstfruits, and then, "when He comes", obviously referring to the Second Advent, EVERY saved person, "those who belong to Him". This applies from Adam on.
So, there will be ONE resurrection of ALL the saved. It cannot occur before the Trib as you presume, because of the martyrs.
Rev 20-
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. Theyhad not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Since these are those who lost their heads IN the Trib, the words "came to life" is an obvious reference to the single resurrection of the saved.
5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.
This verse very clearly describes this SINGLE resurrection of the saved (Acts 24:15) as the FIRST ONE.
And, there cannot be a resurrection BEFORE the FIRST one.
It all occurs as the Bible says, not how you fantasize.
No. There is NO pretrib rapture.
But, why are you so anti-2 Thess 2:1-3?
OK then. Show me the verses. (referring to Jesus taking resurrected believers to heaven.
lol. Where in Acts 1 did Jesus take resurrected believers to heaven with Him???
Actually, 2 Thess 2:1-3 devastates the pretrib theory.
Don't need to have anything changed. The Bible is quite clear enough. What a refresher?
Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.
This is clear; there is ONE resurrection for the saved and ONE resurrection for the unsaved.
1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
This verse is clear; regarding the resurrection of the saved, Jesus was resurrected as firstfruits, and then, "when He comes", obviously referring to the Second Advent, EVERY saved person, "those who belong to Him". This applies from Adam on.
So, there will be ONE resurrection of ALL the saved. It cannot occur before the Trib as you presume, because of the martyrs.
Rev 20-
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. Theyhad not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Since these are those who lost their heads IN the Trib, the words "came to life" is an obvious reference to the single resurrection of the saved.
5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.
This verse very clearly describes this SINGLE resurrection of the saved (Acts 24:15) as the FIRST ONE.
And, there cannot be a resurrection BEFORE the FIRST one.
It all occurs as the Bible says, not how you fantasize.
No. There is NO pretrib rapture.
But, why are you so anti-2 Thess 2:1-3?
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I am from missouri.
Show me.
Remember, according to you, no gathering untill after a great trib ...and you said that is ALWAYS the case.
Great trib.....then judgement.
Then I Showed you that os not the case.
Your come back is " hmmm, i need to cancel him"
Not a honest come back.
Get a bible and lets go.
General dagger verses ?????
Nope. Not an answer.
Got bible????????
Show me.
Remember, according to you, no gathering untill after a great trib ...and you said that is ALWAYS the case.
Great trib.....then judgement.
Then I Showed you that os not the case.
Your come back is " hmmm, i need to cancel him"
Not a honest come back.
Get a bible and lets go.
General dagger verses ?????
Nope. Not an answer.
Got bible????????
""lol. Where in Acts 1 did Jesus take resurrected believers to heaven with Him???""
RETURN
LIKE MANNER.
You serious????? You would reframe it for your doctrine?
If you want to reframe it it is YOUR choice.
There is not a single parable that Completely COVERS EVERY DYNAMIC
EVERY one of them is pinpointed on a separate truth.
Under your model " where is this and that" ( things added to cancel the point the parable makes) none of the bible is harmonious.
RETURN
LIKE MANNER.
You serious????? You would reframe it for your doctrine?
If you want to reframe it it is YOUR choice.
There is not a single parable that Completely COVERS EVERY DYNAMIC
EVERY one of them is pinpointed on a separate truth.
Under your model " where is this and that" ( things added to cancel the point the parable makes) none of the bible is harmonious.
""lol. Where in Acts 1 did Jesus take resurrected believers to heaven with Him???""
RETURN
LIKE MANNER.
You serious????? You would reframe it for your doctrine
If you want to reframe it it is YOUR choice.
There is not a single parable that Completely COVERS EVERY DYNAMIC
EVERY one of them is pinpointed on a separate truth.
Under your model " where is this and that" ( things added to cancel the point the parable makes) none of the bible is harmonious.
RETURN
LIKE MANNER.
You serious????? You would reframe it for your doctrine
If you want to reframe it it is YOUR choice.
There is not a single parable that Completely COVERS EVERY DYNAMIC
EVERY one of them is pinpointed on a separate truth.
Under your model " where is this and that" ( things added to cancel the point the parable makes) none of the bible is harmonious.
""What you CANNOT show from Scripture is Jesus coming to the sky above earth, and taking resurrected believers up to heaven. And THAT is the core principle of the "pre-trib theory".""
Lol
1thes 4. Read it for the first time.
Take the workbook off the table
Clear your mind of some imaginary pretrib boogey man and read it.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
You are welcome
Lol
1thes 4. Read it for the first time.
Take the workbook off the table
Clear your mind of some imaginary pretrib boogey man and read it.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
You are welcome