The Falling Away - pre-trib rapture or ???
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AGREE - which is the reason for my post - thank you
Here is a heresy being promoted on this forum =
https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...-intentionally-describing-the-rapture.201570/
Here is a heresy being promoted on this forum =
https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...-intentionally-describing-the-rapture.201570/
Hi!
Again another great point.....
Just by this, (although there have been other resurrection's in scripture)
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.
This MUST MEAN SOMETHING different than
Matt 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
Matt 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
Matt 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
Matt 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
No?
God Bless!!!
Again another great point.....
Just by this, (although there have been other resurrection's in scripture)
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.
This MUST MEAN SOMETHING different than
Matt 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
Matt 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
Matt 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
Matt 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
No?
God Bless!!!
Firstfruits ALWAYS points to main harvest.
First resurrection has firstfruits , main, corners, gleaners
Yeah
After the pretrib rapture those left behind are martyred.
So yes they enter through much tribulation.
But so do thousands of saints in the past ...so no, your assumption is wrong on several fronts
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And a third angel followed them, calling out in a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image, and receives its mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10he too will drink the wine of God’s anger, poured undiluted into the cup of His wrath. And he will be tormented in fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11And the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever. Day and night there is no rest for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”
12Here is a call for the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
13And I heard a voice from heaven telling me to write, “Blessed are the dead—those who die in the Lord from this moment on.”
“Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labors, for their deeds will follow them.”
14And I looked and saw a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was One like the Son of Man,c with a golden crown on His head and a sharp sickle in His hand.
Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death,c so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. 14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.
15By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.
You do err and do not know Scripture - the Sickle in thehand of Christ is not for rapture - it is an instrument of reaping = cutting down = death = the souls of those who are being put to death for their Witness and Faith in Christ.
You also do not know who the 144,000 are = this is symbolic for a Glorious Truth/Revelation
neither will i share the understanding of the Holy Spirit to those who twist Scripture and "add to and take away from God's words".
12Here is a call for the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
13And I heard a voice from heaven telling me to write, “Blessed are the dead—those who die in the Lord from this moment on.”
“Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labors, for their deeds will follow them.”
14And I looked and saw a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was One like the Son of Man,c with a golden crown on His head and a sharp sickle in His hand.
Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death,c so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. 14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.
15By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.
You do err and do not know Scripture - the Sickle in thehand of Christ is not for rapture - it is an instrument of reaping = cutting down = death = the souls of those who are being put to death for their Witness and Faith in Christ.
You also do not know who the 144,000 are = this is symbolic for a Glorious Truth/Revelation
neither will i share the understanding of the Holy Spirit to those who twist Scripture and "add to and take away from God's words".
Absolutely said:
Except i alread showed you it says " and they lived and reigned..."
It is your niv that reframed it.
And you went with it.
He is just trying SO HARD to miss the OBVIOUS point of Rev 20:5, that MARTYRED believers will "live and reign with Him".
What he won't address is how physically dead MARTYRED people can "live and reign".
Except i alread showed you it says " and they lived and reigned..."
It is your niv that reframed it.
And you went with it.
He is just trying SO HARD to miss the OBVIOUS point of Rev 20:5, that MARTYRED believers will "live and reign with Him".
What he won't address is how physically dead MARTYRED people can "live and reign".
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No it doesn't. I've shown you the exact words from Rev 19 that show the wedding supper is about to begin:
7 Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory! For the wedding of the Lamb has come, and his bride has made herself ready.
8 Fine linen, bright and clean, was given her to wear.” (Fine linen stands for the righteous acts of God’s holy people.)
9 Then the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!” And he added, “These are the true words of God.”
Since this passage is immediately followed by the armies of heaven (dead saints) accompanying Jesus to earth at the Second Advent, and the pretrib view of the wedding supper occurs when the saints are raptured, if that were true, the wedding supper OCCURRED 7 years before Rev 19.
So, instead of "has come" and "has made herself ready" in v.7, John would have written "came" and "made herself ready". No need for "has".
And in v.9 why even mention those who WERE invited, if the wedding occurs 7 years prior. No, the wedding is about to commence, once Jesus returns to earth to set up His Millennial kingdom. The wedding is the kick-off event.
This agrees with the FACT that there is only a SINGLE resurrection for the saved, per Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.
iow, one resurrection each. One for the saved, and one for the unsaved. There is NO verse about the saved resurrection occurring in stages.
This statement is without any evidence. The clear wording in Rev 19 refutes you.
Nope. Every saved person from Adam on will be resurrected at the Second Advent, when Jesus returns to earth.
1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
So, Acts 24:15 says there is A resurrection. 1 Cor 15:23 says that when Jesus comes (returns to earth) ALL believers will be resurrected.
Or, please tell me what "those who belong to Him" refers to.
You haven't provided a rational explanation of the combination of Acts 24:15 and 1 Cor 15:23 and 2 Thess 2:1-3.
7 Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory! For the wedding of the Lamb has come, and his bride has made herself ready.
8 Fine linen, bright and clean, was given her to wear.” (Fine linen stands for the righteous acts of God’s holy people.)
9 Then the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!” And he added, “These are the true words of God.”
Since this passage is immediately followed by the armies of heaven (dead saints) accompanying Jesus to earth at the Second Advent, and the pretrib view of the wedding supper occurs when the saints are raptured, if that were true, the wedding supper OCCURRED 7 years before Rev 19.
So, instead of "has come" and "has made herself ready" in v.7, John would have written "came" and "made herself ready". No need for "has".
And in v.9 why even mention those who WERE invited, if the wedding occurs 7 years prior. No, the wedding is about to commence, once Jesus returns to earth to set up His Millennial kingdom. The wedding is the kick-off event.
This agrees with the FACT that there is only a SINGLE resurrection for the saved, per Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.
iow, one resurrection each. One for the saved, and one for the unsaved. There is NO verse about the saved resurrection occurring in stages.
This statement is without any evidence. The clear wording in Rev 19 refutes you.
Nope. Every saved person from Adam on will be resurrected at the Second Advent, when Jesus returns to earth.
1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
So, Acts 24:15 says there is A resurrection. 1 Cor 15:23 says that when Jesus comes (returns to earth) ALL believers will be resurrected.
Or, please tell me what "those who belong to Him" refers to.
You haven't provided a rational explanation of the combination of Acts 24:15 and 1 Cor 15:23 and 2 Thess 2:1-3.
Bingo!! 1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
The context of 1 Cor 15 is the resurrection of believers.
So, Christ is the very first one, and that is called "the firstfruits". THEN, we find that all "those who belong to Him" will be resurrected.
When is that? WHEN HE COMES. This is the second Advent. Not some secret sneaky rapture scenario.
Quit denying 1 Cor 15:23. Jesus Christ IS the "firstfruits" of resurrection.
You still have NO verses showing Jesus taking any resurrected or raptured believers to heaven.
The context of 1 Cor 15 is the resurrection of believers.
So, Christ is the very first one, and that is called "the firstfruits". THEN, we find that all "those who belong to Him" will be resurrected.
When is that? WHEN HE COMES. This is the second Advent. Not some secret sneaky rapture scenario.
Quit denying 1 Cor 15:23. Jesus Christ IS the "firstfruits" of resurrection.
You still have NO verses showing Jesus taking any resurrected or raptured believers to heaven.
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FreeGrace2 said:
Absolutely said:
Except i alread showed you it says " and they lived and reigned..."
It is your niv that reframed it.
And you went with it.
He is just trying SO HARD to miss the OBVIOUS point of Rev 20:5, that MARTYRED believers will "live and reign with Him".
What he won't address is how physically dead MARTYRED people can "live and reign".
Some people only read what they WANT to read. Forget the actual words in the verses.
Absolutely said:
Except i alread showed you it says " and they lived and reigned..."
It is your niv that reframed it.
And you went with it.
He is just trying SO HARD to miss the OBVIOUS point of Rev 20:5, that MARTYRED believers will "live and reign with Him".
What he won't address is how physically dead MARTYRED people can "live and reign".
Some people only read what they WANT to read. Forget the actual words in the verses.
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nope...only the dead in Christ. at the pretrib rapture
at the GWTJ the rest of the righteous are raised.
The patriarchs are already there. Jesus preached the gospel to those in prison. He took captivity captive and the patriarchs raised from the dead were seen walking the streets
that is sold pretrib doctrine. tested and pure
You left out in your marriage supper interpretation that;
a) the bride has become the wife,in heaven . and;
b) that Jesus placed the feast in heaven at the last supper dialogue.
so,
We all know Christ is the First Fruits of them that sleep (have died in Him) = CLEAR
There will be no Resurrection until HIS COMING = 1 Thess 1:10 , 4:13-18 , Acts 1:9-11 , Matt 24: 29-31 , James 5:7-11
pre-trib is a false gospel - salvation through escaping tribulation - which Christ and the Apostle denied.
pre-trib leads you to believe that there are multiple resurrections - apart from the First Resurrection in Revelation 20
pre-trib does this in order to establish a pre-trib rapture in Revelation before chapter 20.
pre-trib overrides 1 Thess ch4 where the Resurrection occurs at His Coming by falsely claiming more then One Return
pre-trib changes 2 Thess ch2 to say that the "falling away" is the "departure = rapture".
The Holy Spirit rebukes this lie as the Apostle Paul stated twice that the "falling away" is a departure from truth.
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, - 1 Timothy 4:1
The Holy Spirit rebukes this lie a third time by speaking thru the Apostle John in 1 John 2:18-19
pre-trib falsely claims there is another gospel preached to "tribulation saints who are Left Behind"
Christ said He will not leave behind His Saints/His Elect/His Body - He is Coming = only One Second Coming
We all know Christ is the First Fruits of them that sleep (have died in Him) = CLEAR
There will be no Resurrection until HIS COMING = 1 Thess 1:10 , 4:13-18 , Acts 1:9-11 , Matt 24: 29-31 , James 5:7-11
pre-trib is a false gospel - salvation through escaping tribulation - which Christ and the Apostle denied.
pre-trib leads you to believe that there are multiple resurrections - apart from the First Resurrection in Revelation 20
pre-trib does this in order to establish a pre-trib rapture in Revelation before chapter 20.
pre-trib overrides 1 Thess ch4 where the Resurrection occurs at His Coming by falsely claiming more then One Return
pre-trib changes 2 Thess ch2 to say that the "falling away" is the "departure = rapture".
The Holy Spirit rebukes this lie as the Apostle Paul stated twice that the "falling away" is a departure from truth.
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, - 1 Timothy 4:1
The Holy Spirit rebukes this lie a third time by speaking thru the Apostle John in 1 John 2:18-19
pre-trib falsely claims there is another gospel preached to "tribulation saints who are Left Behind"
Christ said He will not leave behind His Saints/His Elect/His Body - He is Coming = only One Second Coming
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