Understanding the Trinity as a doctrine.

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justbyfaith

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Sep 16, 2021
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Many in the bible are lord... sure.
No...the (one and only) Lord (capital "L").

John 17:3

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
The Greek word for "and" in that verse is "kai" which can indeed be translated "even".
 
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No...the (one and only) Lord (capital "L").



The Greek word for "and" in that verse is "kai" which can indeed be translated "even".

Lol... don't try to steer away from YOUR translation now. You accept it for its capital letters, but you don't accept it when it translates a word in way that doesn't fit your doctrine. Hilarious... you make it up as u go. When does your new religion start?
 

justbyfaith

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Lol... don't try to steer away from YOUR translation now. You accept it for its capital letters, but you don't accept it when it translates a word in way that doesn't fit your doctrine. Hilarious... you make it up as u go. When does your new religion start?
The Greek bears out that the word "and" can be translated as "even". That is a simple fact. I am not making it up as I go. It is sound teaching that I am proclaiming to you.
 

justbyfaith

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The Father is not the Son...

However, the Son is the Father (Isaiah 9:6).

For there is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4); and that is God (John 4:24); even the Father (John 4:23) who inhabiteth eternity (Isaiah 57:15).

That same Spirit incarnated and took on an added nature of human flesh; and it is the same Spirit who indwells flesh in the Person of Jesus Christ.

The Spirit of Jesus is the Father (John 4:23-24, John 14:7-11).

Therefore, the Son is the Father come in human flesh; and is a distinct Person from the Father as a Spirit without flesh.

For humanity alters the personality of God so that He is a different Person; while He is the same Spirit as the Father.
 

Rosemaryx

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There is no trinity. The holy spirit is not a person.... It is the energy/power from The Most High. The Holy spirit does not have a throne in heaven, and it is not mentioned in most verses with The Father and Son. The entire doctrine is built off of just a few misinterpreted scriptures, and lack of knowledge and/or willingness to look into the language the bible was translated from.
The Holy Spirit is addressed as HE...
 

justbyfaith

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The Holy Ghost is also the Spirit of the Son; as He was released from the Son (Luke 23:46) so that He could be poured out on the early church (Acts 2) and who indwells every believer in the church since the church began.

He is the Father (John 4:23-24) as He is the one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4) who dwells within us (Ephesians 4:6).

And it is clear that the Holy Ghost is the one Spirit who dwells within us (John 7:39, Ephesians 4:4, 2 Timothy 1:14).
 
Jul 23, 2018
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The Father is not the Son...

However, the Son is the Father (Isaiah 9:6).

For there is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4); and that is God (John 4:24); even the Father (John 4:23) who inhabiteth eternity (Isaiah 57:15).

That same Spirit incarnated and took on an added nature of human flesh; and it is the same Spirit who indwells flesh in the Person of Jesus Christ.

The Spirit of Jesus is the Father (John 4:23-24, John 14:7-11).

Therefore, the Son is the Father come in human flesh; and is a distinct Person from the Father as a Spirit without flesh.

For humanity alters the personality of God so that He is a different Person; while He is the same Spirit as the Father.
I had a feeling something was off.
That is penticostal oneness doctrine.

Easily debunked
 
Jul 23, 2018
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The Holy Ghost is also the Spirit of the Son; as He was released from the Son (Luke 23:46) so that He could be poured out on the early church (Acts 2) and who indwells every believer in the church since the church began.

He is the Father (John 4:23-24) as He is the one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4) who dwells within us (Ephesians 4:6).

And it is clear that the Holy Ghost is the one Spirit who dwells within us (John 7:39, Ephesians 4:4, 2 Timothy 1:14).
Every word of this is pure baloney.

They may bann you.

Not sure ......but you are a heretic
 

TheLearner

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If The Messiah does not know all things regarding dates and times, by definition he is not omniscient.
Acts 1:7
Easy-to-Read Version
7 Jesus said to them, “The Father is the only one who has the authority to decide dates and times. They are not for you to know.

Can you read? The text simply says The Father has the authority over that area. It is other people who does not have knowledge. The text clearly does not say the Son of God does not know. You purposely ignored the outline texts about God the Son being all knowing. Shame on you for your dishonestly.
 

TheLearner

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I had a feeling something was off.
That is penticostal oneness doctrine.

Easily debunked
His theology is closer to

Jesus was Not a Trinitarian
A Call to Return to the Creed of Jesus
By Anthony F. Buzzard

The One God, the Father, One Man Messiah Translation
New Testament with Commentary
By Anthony Buzzard

Sir Anthony Farquhar Buzzard, 3rd Baronet, ARCM (b. 28 June 1935), is a biblical scholar, unitarian Christian theologian, author and professor on the faculty of Atlanta Bible College.

https://web.archive.org/web/20120602173948/http://focusonthekingdom.org/articles.html
 
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The Holy Spirit is addressed as HE...

The Holy Spirit is addressed as a "He" for different reasons in different places in scripture:



Personification....


Genesis 4:10

And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.


Psalm 77:16

The waters saw thee, O God, the waters saw thee; they were afraid: the depths also were troubled.


Isaiah 24:23

Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the Lord of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.


Joel 1:10

The field is wasted, the land mourneth; for the corn is wasted: the new wine is dried up, the oil languisheth.


Proverbs 8:1

Doth not wisdom cry? and understanding put forth her voice?



Can blood cry? Can water be afraid? Can the sun be ashamed? Can land mourn? Is wisdom female with a voice?



Nobody can survive without spirit, its the lifeforce from The Most High... Therefore spirit is many times used interchangeably with the person controlling it:


Genesis 41:8

8 And it came to pass in the morning that his spirit was troubled; and he sent and called for all the magicians of Egypt, and all the wise men thereof: and Pharaoh told them his dream; but there was none that could interpret them unto Pharaoh.


Samuel 1:15

15 And Hannah answered and said, No, my lord, I am a woman of a sorrowful spirit: I have drunk neither wine nor strong drink, but have poured out my soul before the Lord.



1 Kings 21:4-5

4 And Ahab came into his house heavy and displeased because of the word which Naboth the Jezreelite had spoken to him: for he had said, I will not give thee the inheritance of my fathers. And he laid him down upon his bed, and turned away his face, and would eat no bread.
5 But Jezebel his wife came to him, and said unto him, Why is thy spirit so sad, that thou eatest no bread?



So if I say my spirit is sad, sorrowful, troubled, in grief, etc.... does that mean it is a separate person from me? Of course not. The spirit is part of what makes up a human being. Likewise with the Holy Spirit... which is The Most High's spirit.


Mankind can not see or hear The Most High. He communicates to us through His Spirit. Just like your spirit is not a separate person from you, His spirit is not a separate person from Him. He is the person controlling the spirit, and we experience Him through His Holy spirit.


The last reason The Holy Spirit is sometimes referred to a "He" is simply based on the translator's choice. Many pronouns are universal and could be translated as he, she, it, etc. I do think it makes the most sense to translate the pronouns dealing with the Holy Spirit as "He" though because The Father is the person behind His spirit.

We are never told to worship the Holy Spirit, The Holy Spirit does not have an actual name, no throne in heaven, not mentioned in any of the epistle greetings with the Father and Son, etc. We should be giving The Most High all the glory, rather than share it with His way of interacting with us.
 

TheLearner

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If you think that you have to accept the trinity doctrine to be saved you are completely lost... but based off of other things I've seen from you on this forum, I can't say I'm surprised that you would believe something like that. If you start learning how to use context in scripture, maybe you would be able to see more of the big picture. You have tunnel vision on specific verses that fit your doctrine, take those verses literal, and ignore the verses that use the exact same terminology and prove that the verses you are using are not to be taken literal. Multiple people in scripture are called "god"... multiple people called "lord"..... the word "one" is applied figuratively all over scripture. The words are spelled the same exact way by the writers of the original scriptures whether applied to The Father, the Messiah or mankind. Using these words to try to prove a trinity is illogical.
If one denies the Trinity then they have another Jesus, another God thus buy some fire resistant fabrics such as Nomex, Aramid or Kevla.
I doubt there will be AC in Hades or hell.
 
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Acts 1:7
Easy-to-Read Version
7 Jesus said to them, “The Father is the only one who has the authority to decide dates and times. They are not for you to know.

Can you read? The text simply says The Father has the authority over that area. It is other people who does not have knowledge. The text clearly does not say the Son of God does not know. You purposely ignored the outline texts about God the Son being all knowing. Shame on you for your dishonestly.


I did not ignore any texts, it is clear from the other verses you supplied that the Messiah knows all things dealing with the creation itself. That is what he was given the authority over.


Acts 1:7

And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.


The Messiah was not given the authority over times and seasons... hence why he does not know them:


Mark 13:32

But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
 
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If one denies the Trinity then they have another Jesus, another God thus buy some fire resistant fabrics such as Nomex, Aramid or Kevla.
I doubt there will be AC in Hades or hell.
Awww.. that's what we resort to when people don't accept your nonsensical doctrine.
 

TheLearner

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I care more about what the text looked like that the writers of the bible used than what modern English does. Jesus didn't care about capital letters, lol.

If you understand context, capital letters are unneeded.... and apparently cause confusion to some. You know which "god" or "lord" is being referred to because of the adjectives or other surrounding context. In 1co 8:6 you know which "god" is being referred to because it says "God the Father" and you know which "lord" is being referred to because it says "Lord Jesus Christ". Capital letters do not change the definitions of the words... and you can find the bible in many languages, most of which do not have capital letters.
2 Thessalonians 2:1-2
New Revised Standard Version

2 As to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we beg you, brothers and sisters,[a] 2 not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as though from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord is already here.

The Greek word for Lord is the same for both above. If one translates Lord for one from the context and grammar one must do the same with the other use of Lord.
 

TheLearner

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Umm no. That would not be a contradiction. Think about it.... if that was a contradiction, then all bible versions written in languages without capital letters would be contradicting themselves... including ancient Greek which was all "capitals". With or without the capital letter, "lord Jesus Christ" is a complete thought... you are reading it like there is ellipsis after the word "lord": "There is one lord.... Jesus Christ."

What is your understanding of the word Lord, lord as used about Jesus and about Son of God?



Sticking to your preferred translation... it actually doesn't say "even" before "the Father". Regardless, its your interpretation of this passage that is causing you personally to require these capital letters. It is not saying there is only one "god" in existence, it is saying there is only one "god The Father".... it is not saying there is only one "lord" in existence, it is saying there is only one "lord Jesus Christ". The Father is a unique god, Jesus Christ is a unique lord. One of a kind. The first three words in the verse let you know that that is the correct way to interpret it:


1 Corinthians 8:6

But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
 
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Too bad he avoids Bowman's outline of the Trinity I posted a few times now.

I think he is allergic to truth of God's Word.


The Messiah is the the expression of The Most High... The word made flesh (The physical representation of what the Father says)... an image of Him. Of course they are going to have tons of similarities, use some of the same lingo, etc. But they are still two distinct entities, with separate minds and differing levels of authority. The Messiah gets his power from The Most High... never the other way around.
 
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2 Thessalonians 2:1-2
New Revised Standard Version

2 As to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we beg you, brothers and sisters,[a] 2 not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as though from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord is already here.

The Greek word for Lord is the same for both above. If one translates Lord for one from the context and grammar one must do the same with the other use of Lord.

I'm not sure what your point is here. My position is that the title "lord" is not exclusive to The Father or The Messiah. So whether it is capitalized or not, it should not be used as evidence that the Father and Son are "one".