The Falling Away - pre-trib rapture or ???

[DavidTree]

He is using NIV.
Inthe greek it does NOT SAY "came to life"

Not at all.

Nothing to that effect.

It says they lived.....

NIV really skewed that verse badly.

Sad actually ,because there is no resurrection what so ever in rev 20

Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete.
This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection!
The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years
Revelation 20

Dear Brother who the Lord loves and who i appreciate and love in Christ, don't be willfully blind to hold unto the idol of pre-trib

 

[Absolutely]

i want to give you a gift, in the form of a clue, from HS7 = the Lord's ministry was 3.5 years from start to completion.

I do believe that

 

[DavidTree]

False. Scripture always speaks of two resurrections. One for saved, and a second one for unsaved.


Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The first resurrection is the resurrection of this first group of the dead because they resurrect first. The rest of the dead have to wait for their resurrection:

"the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished" (Rev 20:5)

This is the last resurrection of those who are dead. One group resurrected and "the rest" or the remaining ones did not resurrect when the others did.

This proves they partake of the second resurrection also known as the last resurrection because no one is still physically dead after they "live again". This also proves without a doubt that there are two separate days of resurrection separated by a thousand years and how long that actually is doesn't matter.

Part of the dead resurrect and then "the rest of the dead" will resurrect after a period of time. That's the dead resurrecting in two parts separated by a period of time.


The first group resurrects before the thousand years begins and the second/last group resurrects after the end of the thousand years.




Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

First group resurrection: "to everlasting life"
Second group resurrection: "to shame and everlasting contempt"


Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

First group resurrection: "resurrection of life"
Second group resurrection: "the resurrection of damnation"



What we learn from both verses is that there are two resurrections. One resurrection is to life and the other resurrection is to damnation and contempt. Two resurrections! Never is there a single resurrection of both righteous and unrighteous at the same time.



We also see here that the saved/righteous are resurrected first, and at some time later the unsaved are resurrected and judged.

What these verses do not tell us is how much time is inbetween the two. For that we have to go to Revelation 20 where Christ tells John there is a thousand years inbetween. "the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished". There we have the dead separated into two groups. One who are saved and will be resurrected and judged first, like Dan 12:2 and Joh 5:29 show, and the other group that has to wait until the thousand years are finished before they are resurrected and judged.

Act 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Based on the other scriptures that speak of two resurrections we know Luke is not saying the just and unjust resurrect at the same time but just that both groups will experience a resurrection.

Correct Two - One for the Righteous at His Coming and the Second after

I do believe that

Now dwell on that - no need to give a reply - just dwell on it and ask Him about it - not man

We are Family - we share in His Likeness and in His Spirit

 

[Absolutely]

Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete.
This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection!
The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years
Revelation 20

Dear Brother who the Lord loves and who i appreciate and love in Christ, don't be willfully blind to hold unto the idol of pre-trib

""And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years"""

That is niv.

Here is the greek;

I saw the souls of them that
were beheaded for the witness
of Jesus, and for the word of
God, and which had not
worshipped the beast, neither
his image, neither had received
[his] mark upon their
foreheads, or in their hands;
and they lived and reigned
with Christ a thousand years.


What is this with the niv????

A corrupt translation for sure.

No resurrection declared or even pointed to in rev 20.

1st resurrection is firstfruits
( Jesus and those resurrected with him) then main harvest at the rapture..

That is first resurrection.

Others follow AFTRR MAIN HARVEST.

ANYTIME you see " firstfruits" there is main harvest following.

144k are firstfruits
Firstfruit jews.

Main jewsish harvest FOLLOWS. very simple and easy to follow

 

[Absolutely]

Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete.
This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection!
The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years
Revelation 20

Dear Brother who the Lord loves and who i appreciate and love in Christ, don't be willfully blind to hold unto the idol of pre-trib

Nor omit all the pretrib verses.

 

[DavidTree]

""And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years"""

That is niv.

Here is the greek;

I saw the souls of them that
were beheaded for the witness
of Jesus, and for the word of
God, and which had not
worshipped the beast, neither
his image, neither had received
[his] mark upon their
foreheads, or in their hands;
and they lived and reigned
with Christ a thousand years.


What is this with the niv????

A corrupt translation for sure.

No resurrection declared or even pointed to in rev 20.

1st resurrection is firstfruits
( Jesus and those resurrected with him) then main harvest at the rapture..

That is first resurrection.

Others follow AFTRR MAIN HARVEST.

ANYTIME you see " firstfruits" there is main harvest following.

144k are firstfruits
Firstfruit jews.

Main jewsish harvest FOLLOWS. very simple and easy to follow

Dead people living again is RESURRECTION - i did all caps just in case you missed it.

 

[DavidTree]

Nor omit all the pretrib verses.

Here is KJV

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.
This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection:
on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Brother, let go of error and lay hold of the RESURRECTION

And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
1 Thess 1:10

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:
and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
After that,
we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds,
1 Thess 4:18

Brother - rejoice in the Truth -
God loves you very much and He does not want you in the error of man made teachings
They hold no value

 

[DavidTree]

""And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years"""

That is niv.

Here is the greek;

I saw the souls of them that
were beheaded for the witness
of Jesus, and for the word of
God, and which had not
worshipped the beast, neither
his image, neither had received
[his] mark upon their
foreheads, or in their hands;
and they lived and reigned
with Christ a thousand years.


What is this with the niv????

A corrupt translation for sure.

No resurrection declared or even pointed to in rev 20.

1st resurrection is firstfruits
( Jesus and those resurrected with him) then main harvest at the rapture..

That is first resurrection.

Others follow AFTRR MAIN HARVEST.

ANYTIME you see " firstfruits" there is main harvest following.

144k are firstfruits
Firstfruit jews.

Main jewsish harvest FOLLOWS. very simple and easy to follow

There is NO rapture until the First Resurrection takes place at His Coming.

Dear Brother - you know this from 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:
and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds,

You know what is great - the Peace that comes when we accept Christ at His Word like little children at His feet.

 

[ewq1938]

Dead people living again is RESURRECTION - i did all caps just in case you missed it.

Yes and this is a way to prove it:


Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived (zao) and reigned with Christ a thousand years.



Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive (zao) for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.


Christ used the same exact word for his own physical resurrection. Did Christ not live again physically and in immortality after being dead?


Mat 9:18 While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live (zao) .

Here is the same word. Anytime someone who is dead is said to "live" (zao) it's a reference to physical resurrection.





Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived (zao) and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


These people are the first of the human dead to go from death to living just as Christ did and this new living is immortality just as Christ rose in an immortal body. The first resurrection of Revelation 20 is like Christ's own resurrection. There can be no doubt or argument that verse 4 is saying the beheaded saints resurrected and the fact that the rest of the dead did not come to life with the beheaded further proves this as well.




Joh 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

Here too the word ZAO/live is used when the dead come back to life which is a physical resurrection.

 

[Absolutely]

Dead people living again is RESURRECTION - i did all caps just in case you missed it.

Except i alread showed you it says " and they lived and reigned..."

It is your niv that reframed it.

And you went with it.


Your choice...not what it says

 

[Absolutely]

Yes and this is a way to prove it:


Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived (zao) and reigned with Christ a thousand years.



Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive (zao) for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.


Christ used the same exact word for his own physical resurrection. Did Christ not live again physically and in immortality after being dead?


Mat 9:18 While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live (zao) .

Here is the same word. Anytime someone who is dead is said to "live" (zao) it's a reference to physical resurrection.





Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived (zao) and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


These people are the first of the human dead to go from death to living just as Christ did and this new living is immortality just as Christ rose in an immortal body. The first resurrection of Revelation 20 is like Christ's own resurrection. There can be no doubt or argument that verse 4 is saying the beheaded saints resurrected and the fact that the rest of the dead did not come to life with the beheaded further proves this as well.




Joh 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

Here too the word ZAO/live is used when the dead come back to life which is a physical resurrection.

No they are not the first dead to go to living.

Jesus the FIRSTFRUITS.

Not to mention the patriarchs that were raised from the dead when Jesus resurrected.
They were seen walking the streets.

Niv got you on the wrong path.

You posted niv.

Which incredibly changed the wording in rev.

One must Not Do That

There are grievious penalties.

 

[Absolutely]

Yes and this is a way to prove it:


Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived (zao) and reigned with Christ a thousand years.



Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive (zao) for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.


Christ used the same exact word for his own physical resurrection. Did Christ not live again physically and in immortality after being dead?


Mat 9:18 While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live (zao) .

Here is the same word. Anytime someone who is dead is said to "live" (zao) it's a reference to physical resurrection.





Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived (zao) and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


These people are the first of the human dead to go from death to living just as Christ did and this new living is immortality just as Christ rose in an immortal body. The first resurrection of Revelation 20 is like Christ's own resurrection. There can be no doubt or argument that verse 4 is saying the beheaded saints resurrected and the fact that the rest of the dead did not come to life with the beheaded further proves this as well.




Joh 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

Here too the word ZAO/live is used when the dead come back to life which is a physical resurrection.

ezhsan
ezEsan
G2198
vi Aor Act 3 Pl
THEY-LIVE

 

[Absolutely]

Luk 4:4 - And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall G2198 ➔ not live G2198 by bread alone, but by every word of God



There is no support for making that some written in stone proof
That it means there is a resurrection in rev 20.

None at all.

It translates lived..

But of course you can get a niv and make it into a resurrection in rev 20.

Uh.... Not advisable

 

[walknlight]

Good morning to you!

Luk 4:4 - And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall G2198 ➔ not live G2198 by bread alone, but by every word of God

Agreed!

One of the most compelling fact you presented is, "its a time of peace."

I agree, because Scripture agrees...

Matt 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Matt 24:37 But as the days of Noe [were], so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Matt 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Matt 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Been in wars, can truly say there is a "sense" of this ^^ "peace" now.....
People ARE oblivious to Who and what is coming......
Luke 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;

God Bless!

 

[Evmur]

Through great tribulation must we enter the Kingdom of God.

 

[Absolutely]

Through great tribulation must we enter the Kingdom of God.

That is all believers of all history


If you are pretending only those that endure the great tribulation are saved.....you can see right away the folly in that.

 

[walknlight]

Through great tribulation must we enter the Kingdom of God.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
The kingdom was in the midst them, now The kingdom in those who are His.....
Its all about Yahweh and His Christ.......
God Bless!

 

[Absolutely]

There is NO rapture until the First Resurrection takes place at His Coming.

Dear Brother - you know this from 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:
and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds,

You know what is great - the Peace that comes when we accept Christ at His Word like little children at His feet.

All rapture verses are peacetime.

Beyond that Jesus framed his coming before the flood.

Lot also is used to illustrate a prejudgement escape.

You are not using the bible to adopt a position.

You are using a supposed position of anti pretrib

You really dont know why.

 

[FreeGrace2]

""And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years"""

That is niv.

Here is the greek;

I saw the souls of them that
were beheaded for the witness
of Jesus, and for the word of
God, and which had not
worshipped the beast, neither
his image, neither had received
[his] mark upon their
foreheads, or in their hands;
and they lived and reigned
with Christ a thousand years.


What is this with the niv????

One could ask the same question of yourself.

Did you miss the first part of the verse that says they were "beheaded for the witness of Jesus" and "had not worshiped the beast (a/c) nor taken his mark"?? All this proves that these beheaded people were IN the Tribulation and DIED by martyrdom.

So the words at the end of the verse "they lived" is an OBVIOUS mention of being resurrected.

A corrupt translation for sure.

No resurrection declared or even pointed to in rev 20.

1st resurrection is firstfruits

This is the Greek word in v.5 for "first resurrection"

anastasis: a standing up, i.e. a resurrection, a raising up, rising
Original Word: ἀνάστασις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: anastasis
Phonetic Spelling: (an-as'-tas-is)
Definition: a standing up, a resurrection, a raising up, rising
Usage: a rising again, resurrection.

It seem you are corrupting the actual words of Scripture.

( Jesus and those resurrected with him) then main harvest at the rapture..

That is first resurrection.

The first resurrection is plainly stated in Rev 20:5. And Acts 24:15 plainly says there will be two resurrections, one for the saved and one for the unsaved.

Others follow AFTRR MAIN HARVEST.

Nope. 1 Cor 15:23 says plainly that after Christ's "first fruits" resurrection, it says "and THEN, those who belong to Him". There is NO ROOM for multiple resurrections.

There is ONLY 1 resurrection for saved people. The notion of sequential or multiple resurrections are only a guise to explain away the fact that there is clearly one at the end of the Trib.

ANYTIME you see " firstfruits" there is main harvest following.

That is absolultely correct. It occurs at the end of the Trib. As Rev 20:5 plainly states.

144k are firstfruits
Firstfruit jews.

Nope. 1 Cor 15:23 does NOT allow anyone, including you, to chop up the SINGLE saved resurrection into chunks. Some here, and others there.

Main jewsish harvest FOLLOWS. very simple and easy to follow

Nope. Paul didn't allow such twisting of Scripture.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Nor omit all the pretrib verses.

Right. Sure. Of course.

Please pick your most favorite "pretrib verse" that shows Jesus taking resurrected and raptured believers to heaven. That would satisfy me.