How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church
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Lucy........it's perfectly clear that the redemptive plan of God has switched gears starting in chapter 6 of Revelation. Now the, during's Daniel 70th week, Israel comes to the fore.....and is RECOMMISSIONED to the task to which they were originally elected......as preachers and witnesses of the testimony of God to the world.
I am speaking of course to the 144,000 sealed elect Israelite preacher commandos and two witnesses! There is reason to believe that those gentiles who respond to the preaching of these ISRAELITES have a part to play as well.....evidently they have a testimony.
Of course the Church is nowhere to be found during the time of God's wrath, and therefore is no longer preaching during the time of Daniel 70th week. There is no doubt they are seen in heaven as the 24 Elders.
The premillennial pre-tribbers have it right. They always have it right.....
I am speaking of course to the 144,000 sealed elect Israelite preacher commandos and two witnesses! There is reason to believe that those gentiles who respond to the preaching of these ISRAELITES have a part to play as well.....evidently they have a testimony.
Of course the Church is nowhere to be found during the time of God's wrath, and therefore is no longer preaching during the time of Daniel 70th week. There is no doubt they are seen in heaven as the 24 Elders.
The premillennial pre-tribbers have it right. They always have it right.....
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No, the church is PROMISED to suffers the GT, .
Prophecy that Christian saints would be killed during the Great Tribulation:
Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
Satan's wrath and him starting the Great Tribulation which is a war against Christians/the church:
Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath , because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed , which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
This war is the great tribulation and it is specifically a war against the remnant of the woman's seed AND those who have the testimony of Jesus Christ. That's the church!
The Christian saints killed during Satan's wrathful Great Tribulation are resurrected:
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God , and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years .
They were killed in the great tribulation. They weren't raptured to heaven before the great tribulation!
No, they will take part in the Apostasia/Apostasy and receive the mark of the beast.
Prophecy that Christian saints would be killed during the Great Tribulation:
Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
Satan's wrath and him starting the Great Tribulation which is a war against Christians/the church:
Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath , because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed , which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
This war is the great tribulation and it is specifically a war against the remnant of the woman's seed AND those who have the testimony of Jesus Christ. That's the church!
The Christian saints killed during Satan's wrathful Great Tribulation are resurrected:
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God , and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years .
They were killed in the great tribulation. They weren't raptured to heaven before the great tribulation!
No, they will take part in the Apostasia/Apostasy and receive the mark of the beast.
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^ In Revelation 12:17, "the REMNANT of her seed" refers to those of Israel, same "REMNANT" as in the following text:
Micah 5:3 [the one "born" in v.3 being distinct from Jesus' own birth in v.2] -
Berean Study Bible
Therefore Israel will be abandoned until she who is in labor has given birth; then the rest of His brothers will return to the children of Israel.
King James Bible
Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel.
New King James Version
Therefore He shall give them up, Until the time that she who is in labor has given birth; Then the remnant of His brethren Shall return to the children of Israel.
NASB 1995
Therefore He will give them up until the time When she who is in labor has borne a child. Then the remainder of His brethren Will return to the sons of Israel.
[in this text, the "woman [/she]" is distinct from the one she "gives birth" to... and the "remnant" is also distinct from both of those--in the same way as in Revelation 12]
Micah 5:3 [the one "born" in v.3 being distinct from Jesus' own birth in v.2] -
Berean Study Bible
Therefore Israel will be abandoned until she who is in labor has given birth; then the rest of His brothers will return to the children of Israel.
King James Bible
Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel.
New King James Version
Therefore He shall give them up, Until the time that she who is in labor has given birth; Then the remnant of His brethren Shall return to the children of Israel.
NASB 1995
Therefore He will give them up until the time When she who is in labor has borne a child. Then the remainder of His brethren Will return to the sons of Israel.
[in this text, the "woman [/she]" is distinct from the one she "gives birth" to... and the "remnant" is also distinct from both of those--in the same way as in Revelation 12]
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Yes.
As I've mentioned in many past posts, everything in Matthew 24 (from v.3 on) is what takes place FOLLOWING our Rapture...
... and certainly we can see that Matthew 24:14 [/26:13] is saying "this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world..." (compare the wording of the rest of the verse to the wording found in Rev7:9--so we see its EFFECTS in vv.9,14);
...not to mention Matt24:45-46 (which vv.42-51 I've pointed out is parallel to Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding"... see vv.42-43 compared with the verses I just pointed out: Matt24:45-46 "wise servant... to give them meat in due season... BLESSED is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh SHALL FIND SO DOING");
... as well as in Dan12:1-4 (which is not speaking about a "physical/bodily resurrection from being formerly physically/bodily dead"), where it speaks of what Israel will go on TO DO (at least, the "WISE" among them will [vv.1-4,10]): "they that turn many to righteousness" (note Dan12's context is the SECOND HALF of the "7yr period"... per vv.1,6-7,11,etc...);
... there are many other passages as well (Matt25:40,45, for example, calls them "the least of these My brethren"... who are not the ones in this context BEING "judged / separated" [Sheep and goats OF THE NATIONS (PLURAL)]);
The problem comes in when we willy-nilly apply all passages to US [/the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY]... which is simply usurping the future [believing / FAITH-ful] REMNANT of Israel of THEIR role... and reward
As I've mentioned in many past posts, everything in Matthew 24 (from v.3 on) is what takes place FOLLOWING our Rapture...
... and certainly we can see that Matthew 24:14 [/26:13] is saying "this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world..." (compare the wording of the rest of the verse to the wording found in Rev7:9--so we see its EFFECTS in vv.9,14);
...not to mention Matt24:45-46 (which vv.42-51 I've pointed out is parallel to Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding"... see vv.42-43 compared with the verses I just pointed out: Matt24:45-46 "wise servant... to give them meat in due season... BLESSED is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh SHALL FIND SO DOING");
... as well as in Dan12:1-4 (which is not speaking about a "physical/bodily resurrection from being formerly physically/bodily dead"), where it speaks of what Israel will go on TO DO (at least, the "WISE" among them will [vv.1-4,10]): "they that turn many to righteousness" (note Dan12's context is the SECOND HALF of the "7yr period"... per vv.1,6-7,11,etc...);
... there are many other passages as well (Matt25:40,45, for example, calls them "the least of these My brethren"... who are not the ones in this context BEING "judged / separated" [Sheep and goats OF THE NATIONS (PLURAL)]);
The problem comes in when we willy-nilly apply all passages to US [/the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY]... which is simply usurping the future [believing / FAITH-ful] REMNANT of Israel of THEIR role... and reward
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Correct.
(and I would say the Church which is His body is kept out of the ENTIRE 7-yr period, not merely the "GT / GREAT Tribulation" which is only the second HALF of it, technically = ) )
But yes, abs' "partial-rapture theory" does not hold up under biblical scrutiny.
The ENTIRE "ONE BODY" will go in the Rapture (not "bits and pieces" of it, lol)... RIGHT!
(and I would say the Church which is His body is kept out of the ENTIRE 7-yr period, not merely the "GT / GREAT Tribulation" which is only the second HALF of it, technically = ) )
But yes, abs' "partial-rapture theory" does not hold up under biblical scrutiny.
The ENTIRE "ONE BODY" will go in the Rapture (not "bits and pieces" of it, lol)
... RIGHT!-
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Correct.
(and I would say the Church which is His body is kept out of the ENTIRE 7-yr period, not merely the "GT / GREAT Tribulation" which is only the second HALF of it, technically = ) )
(and I would say the Church which is His body is kept out of the ENTIRE 7-yr period, not merely the "GT / GREAT Tribulation" which is only the second HALF of it, technically = ) )
And those who are His, who did not receive the oracles, are grafted in....
We are to lead the Jews to Christ during this time......Hence messianic Jews...
No?
God Bless !
Correct.
(and I would say the Church which is His body is kept out of the ENTIRE 7-yr period, not merely the "GT / GREAT Tribulation" which is only the second HALF of it, technically = ) )
But yes, abs' "partial-rapture theory" does not hold up under biblical scrutiny.
The ENTIRE "ONE BODY" will go in the Rapture (not "bits and pieces" of it, lol)... RIGHT!
(and I would say the Church which is His body is kept out of the ENTIRE 7-yr period, not merely the "GT / GREAT Tribulation" which is only the second HALF of it, technically = ) )
But yes, abs' "partial-rapture theory" does not hold up under biblical scrutiny.
The ENTIRE "ONE BODY" will go in the Rapture (not "bits and pieces" of it, lol)
... RIGHT!
Seriously.
What?
But some people need to believe faith is pain.
I knew a guy who three days prior to Easter would flagellate himself as he walked sun wise, clockwise, around his church. He was so grateful for Jesus' suffering that he wanted to truly be, "Christ like".
Good thing he married an RN. A very patient and empathetic RN. With lots of gauze, medical tape, and alcohol.
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No you've got that all wrong. The fact that the 70th week is Gods wrath is unequivocally stated 10 times in the book of Revelation. And once it is called the "wrath of the Lamb."
One time it is stated that "the devil is come down to you, having great wrath". This is purely reactionary as a result of Gods wrath and judgment against him.
One time it is stated that "the devil is come down to you, having great wrath". This is purely reactionary as a result of Gods wrath and judgment against him.
Not once is the great tribulation said to be God's wrath. It is told to us that it is satan's wrath and is a war against Christians, Rev 12. Scripture says God's wrath begins at the 7th trump.
Again, if you can't get that part right, then you have no hopes of getting anything else correct.
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What exactly do you think the Great Tribulation is? Does it have any relationship to the seven trumpet judgments of God's wrath? And if not what is it?
And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth. (Rev 16:1).
According to this statement, ALL the trumpet judgments announced by these seven angels are God's wrath, and since they extend right throughout the 7 years of Daniel's 70th week, you have no excuse for making such remarks as above. Seems like you would love to have textbook statements about Bible truth. And I already told you that it does not work that way.
And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth. (Rev 16:1).
According to this statement, ALL the trumpet judgments announced by these seven angels are God's wrath, and since they extend right throughout the 7 years of Daniel's 70th week, you have no excuse for making such remarks as above. Seems like you would love to have textbook statements about Bible truth. And I already told you that it does not work that way.
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The great tribulation is the war against Christians:
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
That war is found in Rev 13, which is the great tribulation. It is commonly believed to be the duration of 6th trump.
You didn't read that before posting? That speaks of vials not trumpets. It's errors like this that cause confusion in one's doctrine.
The wrath of God is found in the vials. The vials only pour once the 7th trump has sounded:
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Only one of us is presenting bible truth and it isn't you brother. You don't know what great tribulation is. You don't know when wrath of God happens and you don't even know the difference between vials and trumps yet you dare say to me, "you have no excuse for making such remarks as above". You don't know what you are talking and you do not understand scripture well enough to teach it.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
That war is found in Rev 13, which is the great tribulation. It is commonly believed to be the duration of 6th trump.
You didn't read that before posting? That speaks of vials not trumpets. It's errors like this that cause confusion in one's doctrine.
The wrath of God is found in the vials. The vials only pour once the 7th trump has sounded:
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Only one of us is presenting bible truth and it isn't you brother. You don't know what great tribulation is. You don't know when wrath of God happens and you don't even know the difference between vials and trumps yet you dare say to me, "you have no excuse for making such remarks as above". You don't know what you are talking and you do not understand scripture well enough to teach it.
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S
Hi, Ice . . . Okay, so as a believer in a post-tribulation Second Coming, I agree with others that we are not doomed to suffer God's wrath, as 1 Thessalonians 5:9 clearly states. I disagree, however, with some who believe the "7 bowls" represent God's vengeance. I think some individuals believe this because they are attempting to establish a point by taking passages out of context.
But I can see why this assumption is made. Let’s look at Revelation 16:1.
Revelation 16:1
The Seven Bowls
16 Then I heard a loud voice from the temple saying to the seven angels, “Go and pour out the bowls of the wrath of God on the earth.”
Now, if you check the context of that verse, you will not find that it says these bowls are during Daniels 70th week, the last half of which Jesus called the great tribulation. I personally do not believe that the tribulation is God's wrath at all. If it is wrath, it is the wrath of evil men, demons, the beast, etc., on the elect of God.
After the great tribulation, Jesus returns with His army, and THEN you will see God's wrath, but it’s not during the great tribulation.
But I can see why this assumption is made. Let’s look at Revelation 16:1.
Revelation 16:1
The Seven Bowls
16 Then I heard a loud voice from the temple saying to the seven angels, “Go and pour out the bowls of the wrath of God on the earth.”
Now, if you check the context of that verse, you will not find that it says these bowls are during Daniels 70th week, the last half of which Jesus called the great tribulation. I personally do not believe that the tribulation is God's wrath at all. If it is wrath, it is the wrath of evil men, demons, the beast, etc., on the elect of God.
After the great tribulation, Jesus returns with His army, and THEN you will see God's wrath, but it’s not during the great tribulation.
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