We are not without sin but we are seen as righteous and called Saints. It is only through the blood of Christ that God sees us as perfect.
Do we need to repent more than once to stay saved?
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I'm not a Calvinist either. I don't even know what that is really. I believe in the risen Lord.
Also, it is possible to walk in perfect freedom and victory over sin for the rest of one's life (1 John 3:6 (kjv), 1 John 2:17 (kjv), Romans 8:12 (NLT)).
We do not have to fall into a pattern of sinful behaviour (Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, 1 John 2:10).
God is able to sanctify us wholly and to make it so that it is not possible that we would sin (1 Thessalonians 5:23-24, Hebrews 10:14 (kjv), 1 John 3:9).
Because if you look at 1 John 1:8 carefully, I think you will see that it does not say, "If we say that we do no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us."
It is speaking of indwelling sin; while 1 John 3:5-9 is speaking of sin in the practical sense.
So then, there is no contradiction between 1 John 1:8 and a literal rendering of 1 John 3:5-9.
In case your comment misleads anyone, all believers are justified by grace through faith. Therefore they have imputed righteousness (the perfection of Christ). But none are sinlessly perfect. Therefore all need to be sanctified by the Holy Spirit.
1Th 5:23, And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Th 5:24, Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.
Heb 10:14, For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
1Jo 3:9, Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
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1Jo 3:6, Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jo 2:17, And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
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1Jo 3:7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jo 3:3, And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
even as he is pure.
1Jo 2:6, He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
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Jde 1:24, Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
2Pe 1:10, Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
1Jo 2:10, He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
I will agree that even before the Lord accomplishes the work of entire sanctification in the life of the believer, that the believer is justified apart from sanctification (Romans 4:11).
What then is the motivation for us to be wholly sanctified; since it has no bearing on our salvation?
See Philemon 1:6, 1 Corinthians 3:11-15.
The more effective we are in our witness for Christ on earth, the greater our reward will be in heaven.
Yup, it's a necessary part of Sanctification.
The counter-argument against "ongoing confession of sin to remain clean" is typically the strawman that says "so if you don't happen to remember each and every sin then you are in trouble." This is false and we only need to focus on the first instance of confession to understand why.
Not one person who first becomes a believer; who first kneels at the throne to confess and accept the Master into their lives, does so by listing every single sin they've ever committed in the past up to that point. It's impossible to do, and if such itemization was necessary no one would be part of the body. No one would be saved.
But do they need to confess their sin in order to be saved and accepted? Absolutely yes. It's a necessary action else they wouldn't receive forgiveness or become part of the body.
The critical part is the act of confessing (that one has committed crimes against the Living God), not what is being confessed. He knows what sins we've committed but you must confess that you have sinned against Him. This is why the Messiah gave it as part of His blueprint on how to pray. It's necessary to confess during every prayer. Believe in the Messiah's words.
The difference between the OT before the Messiah's ministry and now is "something also had to die to pay for the sin when a person confessed, and the blood of an animal couldn't cleanse the iniquity."
Sin does two things:
1) Creates a debt that must be paid with a life. This is called the "wage of sin"
2) STAINS the tabernacle (your heart and the heavenly throne). This is called "Iniquity" and "Unrighteousness".
The Messiah's crucifixion paid for the wage of sin (PAST TENSE). The Messiah's sinless blood is ready to cleanse iniquity (PRESENT TENSE, ONCE ASKED FOR). The Messiah's grace strengthens us to resist FUTURE sin (WHICH MUST BE GROWN like a divine muscle which takes time...this is why we return boldly to the throne to confess in the meantime).
- There is no iniquity where there is no sin committed, there is only iniquity when one sins.
- If we DO sin there is no condemnation (death), in Messiah. The law/cycle of "sin-death-sin-death" is forever broken.
- If we confess our sin He is faithful and just to forgive us and to CLEANSE us of our unrighteousness (i.e. iniquity), as we ask for the strength (i.e. grace) to do better against the sin next time.
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This is some of the critical information that is missing in today's church when we teach that the OT is passed away; critical information that the converted gentiles of the 1st century were being taught each Sabbath. We don't understand the process of sanctification because it's rarely taught, thinking "it's all finished" upon the first confession (justification) or that we're robots now being controlled by the Holy Spirit who's magically making us sanctified.
This is not magic but a process in which we have a part to play.
This is why there is little to no growth in the body of believers as the majority of us struggle with the same sins day in and day out for decades and decades, and why most atheists are former Christians who've lost hope. Shall we say the Holy Spirit failed them since they were never required to do anything but confess once?
Of course not. Smh.
(sorry. rant over)
The counter-argument against "ongoing confession of sin to remain clean" is typically the strawman that says "so if you don't happen to remember each and every sin then you are in trouble." This is false and we only need to focus on the first instance of confession to understand why.
Not one person who first becomes a believer; who first kneels at the throne to confess and accept the Master into their lives, does so by listing every single sin they've ever committed in the past up to that point. It's impossible to do, and if such itemization was necessary no one would be part of the body. No one would be saved.
But do they need to confess their sin in order to be saved and accepted? Absolutely yes. It's a necessary action else they wouldn't receive forgiveness or become part of the body.
The critical part is the act of confessing (that one has committed crimes against the Living God), not what is being confessed. He knows what sins we've committed but you must confess that you have sinned against Him. This is why the Messiah gave it as part of His blueprint on how to pray. It's necessary to confess during every prayer. Believe in the Messiah's words.
The difference between the OT before the Messiah's ministry and now is "something also had to die to pay for the sin when a person confessed, and the blood of an animal couldn't cleanse the iniquity."
Sin does two things:
1) Creates a debt that must be paid with a life. This is called the "wage of sin"
2) STAINS the tabernacle (your heart and the heavenly throne). This is called "Iniquity" and "Unrighteousness".
The Messiah's crucifixion paid for the wage of sin (PAST TENSE). The Messiah's sinless blood is ready to cleanse iniquity (PRESENT TENSE, ONCE ASKED FOR). The Messiah's grace strengthens us to resist FUTURE sin (WHICH MUST BE GROWN like a divine muscle which takes time...this is why we return boldly to the throne to confess in the meantime).
- There is no iniquity where there is no sin committed, there is only iniquity when one sins.
- If we DO sin there is no condemnation (death), in Messiah. The law/cycle of "sin-death-sin-death" is forever broken.
- If we confess our sin He is faithful and just to forgive us and to CLEANSE us of our unrighteousness (i.e. iniquity), as we ask for the strength (i.e. grace) to do better against the sin next time.
---
This is some of the critical information that is missing in today's church when we teach that the OT is passed away; critical information that the converted gentiles of the 1st century were being taught each Sabbath. We don't understand the process of sanctification because it's rarely taught, thinking "it's all finished" upon the first confession (justification) or that we're robots now being controlled by the Holy Spirit who's magically making us sanctified.
This is not magic but a process in which we have a part to play.
This is why there is little to no growth in the body of believers as the majority of us struggle with the same sins day in and day out for decades and decades, and why most atheists are former Christians who've lost hope. Shall we say the Holy Spirit failed them since they were never required to do anything but confess once?
Of course not. Smh.
(sorry. rant over)
S
SophieT
Guest
kindly point that out from scripture if you want to make that point
as we have examples from the physical realm as examples pertaining to the spiritual, you should just connect the dots
in other words, why is the character we are supposed to be attaining called fruit? why not instant pudding? (haha funny)
remember Jesus cursing the fig tree? no more fruit. please connect the dots and thank you, but waiting for that scripture that indicates we are suddenly endowed with the nature of Christ and never sin again
It seems to me that "changing your mind" is something that can be, and often is, something that can be done more than once. If it wasn't human could not grow, they would always remain the same.
Also, it seems to me that works are part of repentance. Salvation is not based on our sins but our faith, but how cam you possibly have faith in the entire being of Christ and have faith in sin for yourself? If we eliminate sin from our lives then works happen to us. It is part of accepting Christ within us.
1 Corinthians 6:11?kindly point that out from scripture if you want to make that point
as we have examples from the physical realm as examples pertaining to the spiritual, you should just connect the dots
in other words, why is the character we are supposed to be attaining called fruit? why not instant pudding? (haha funny)
remember Jesus cursing the fig tree? no more fruit. please connect the dots and thank you, but waiting for that scripture that indicates we are suddenly endowed with the nature of Christ and never sin again
Paul admits to the law of morality still being active in his life.
Romans 7:21-23
New International Version
21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me.
BUT
Romans 7:4-6
New International Version
4 So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For when we were in the realm of the flesh,[a] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.
By the baptism of the Spirit, we was released by such law. Meaning the law is still present, and we still can not keep all of its commands as to why legalism always fails. But we are freed from the law. Now we relationally live in the Spirit. It is by the sacrifice and blood of Christ that we are set free from sin. It is the love of Christ and guidance of the Spirit that leads us to victory in our daily spiritual battles between flesh and soul.
Also, 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24, Hebrews 10:14 (kjv), 1 John 3:9; 1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17; 1 John 3:7, 1 John 3:3, 1 John 2:6; Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, 1 John 2:10).
I have quoted all of these at other places on these boards. All you have to do is find the posts where I do this. Or, you can look up the verses in your own kjv Bible (which is what I am communicating from primarily).
I have quoted all of these at other places on these boards. All you have to do is find the posts where I do this. Or, you can look up the verses in your own kjv Bible (which is what I am communicating from primarily).
S
SophieT
Guest
In Romans 7:14-25, Paul is using the literary tactic of IDENTIFICATION to define carnality in order that he might win the carnal person (see 1 Corinthians 9:22).
If Paul himself is carnal in the writing of this, then he is not penning holy scripture (for it is written, in 2 Peter 1:20-21, that scripture was produced as holy men of God spake by the Holy Ghost; and if Paul was carnal, then he was not holy).
I conclude that he is in Romans 7:14-25 becoming as weak in order to gain the weak.
I disagree.
1Co 6:9, Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1Co 6:10, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
1Co 6:11, And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
Sanctification is complete on the day of glorification or death which ever comes first for the Saint. Sanctification is a life long work done by the Spirit within the believer.
S
SophieT
Guest
duh
prove it then since you brought it up
where in the verse 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. does it speak of instantly attaining the fruit of the Spirit ?
this is speaking of salvation...what are you doing the rest of your life?
I mean I am obviously still working on patience myself..but you go ahead and tell me that you have attained perfection
I believe, based on holy scripture that I have quoted elsewhere, that the Lord can complete the work of sanctification while we are still on the earth.
To me, this verse is speaking of instant sanctification from the sins that are spoken of in verses 9-10. Because those sins are things by which you would not inherit the kingdom of God; so if you were not instantly sanctified, you would not be saved as you would be continuing in sins that are condemning to your soul.
If it does not speak the same to you then I will pray for the Holy Ghost to illuminate your mind so that you will be able to see this truth in the scripture in question.
I would also suggest that you look up the other verses that I referenced in the next post of mine (#53, https://christianchat.com/threads/d...e-than-once-to-stay-saved.201884/post-4675752).