How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

[TheDivineWatermark]

TheDivineWatermark said:
Well, I see in my post you had quoted, that for the most part, I left the scripture references for the student to look them up in the Greek themselves... if they so choose.

I am not your student.

I was in no way suggesting that you were (or that anyone is)...



What I meant was "the student of Scripture"...

..."the student of the Bible"





I said:


"... I left the scripture references for the student [meaning, the student OF THE SCRIPTURES] to look them up..."




I did NOT say, "...for MY students / the student OF ME to look them up..."





... but believe what you wish about the intentions of my post, Angela...

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

The Bible reveals a Pre-Tribulation Rapture ever since Enoch was translated before the Flood. The only false doctrine is (a) claiming that there is no Pre-Tribulation Rapture and (b) making Christ a liar.

I'm sorry you are so bound up in this thing that you elevate it to the level of scripture.
Pretribulation rapture is not scripture. You have simply learned the doctrine well & learned where to disassemble scripture
to reconstruct it around the doctrine- with the doctrine as the central focus.

It's a peripheral belief, an idea. Not a central component of our Christian faith. It is not worthy of even being doctrine.
It is not Jesus teaching. While you are on the soapbox please refrain from accusing Christians of calling Chirst a liar.
We are believers. We believe him. Teachers with the new, extra-biblical doctrine of pretribulation rapture we do not believe.

The angrier & more overbearing you become is evidence against pretribulation rapture.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Nehemiah 6, in that chapter after listing those of the faith (Enoch in the list of those of faith in Hebrews 11:5) says:

"All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth."--1 Corinthians 16:19

I can see how people misunderstand this Scripture, but Scripture never contradicts itself. Again, we must look at the surrounding verses and the whole of scripture. Jesus said plainly, "--John 3:13

how he was 'translated' i don't know, but it says clearly he died in Hebrews. i can only assume it means just as God gives the breath of life, God took it away, so he did not die a natural death. I don't see this happening to anyone else in Scripture. People will say Elijah, but several years later he is alive because he writes a letter to King Jehoram--so the Chariots did not take him to heaven. The heaven must have meant the upper atmosphere in this case.
"
"A few years into Jehoram's reign, and several years after Elijah's removal, Jehoram received a letter from Elijah warning the king of dire consequences because of his sins. This letter is recorded in 2 Chronicles 21:12-15.
This letter proves that the prophet was still alive and on earth some years after he was removed by the whirlwind and replaced by Elisha. God had chosen Elisha to succeed Elijah as His prophet, so He bodily removed Elijah to another place, where he continued to live for at least several more years—as his letter to Jehoram demonstrates."

https://www.ucg.org/bible-study-too...he-bible-really-teach/did-elijah-go-to-heaven

Interesting points Laura,
I would add to those observations that in Acts 8:39-40 after the baptisim of the Ethiopian, Philip was taken by The Holy Spirt. The Greek word used in verse 39 is harpazo. The famous word of action we have replaced in pop-Christianity with "rapture" But Philip was taken to another place on earth.

Acts 8 (NIV)
39 When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing. 40 Philip, however, appeared at Azotus and traveled about, preaching the gospel in all the towns until he reached Caesarea.

 

[walknlight]

Hi !

Interesting points Laura,
I would add to those observations that in Acts 8:39-40 after the baptisim of the Ethiopian, Philip was taken by The Holy Spirt. The Greek word used in verse 39 is harpazo. The famous word of action we have replaced in pop-Christianity with "rapture" But Philip was taken to another place on earth.

Acts 8 (NIV)
39 When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing. 40 Philip, however, appeared at Azotus and traveled about, preaching the gospel in all the towns until he reached Caesarea.

Dont stop there...

Matthew 11:12: "suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force."
Matthew 13:19: "the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart."
John 6:15: "they would come and take him by force, to make him"
John 10:12: "and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the"
John 10:28: "they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them"
John 10:29: "and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand."
Acts 23:10: "the soldiers to go down, and to take him by force from among them,"
2 Corinthians 12:2: "I cannot tell: God knoweth such a one caught up to the third"
2 Corinthians 12:4: "How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words,"
1 Thessalonians 4:17: "we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in"
Jude 1:23: "save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating"
Revelation 12:5: "and her child was caught up unto God, and to his"

Just noticed Apostle Paul uses the same phraseology from his 3rd Heaven experience the
same as our Lord and Saviors arrival in the clouds.... And he included himself, as if he was
expecting it to happen in his day...

Halleluyah!!
God Bless!

 

[walknlight]

Hi!

It says they ALL DIED. Again Jesus said "NO ONE HAS ASCENDED TO HEAVEN, EXCEPT THE SON OF MAN. " NO ONE MEANS NO ONE.

2Cor 12:1 It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.
2Cor 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.
2Cor 12:3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth
2Cor 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

What say you?
God Bless!

 

[walknlight]

@Laura798 's Post #2089 (my apologies, I'm slow at getting to each of these posts / points), where you'd said:



I dunno about that... it seems like earlier in this thread there was a member who had started out by saying he was undecided but was studying it... and just days later he said he'd come to understand the "pre-trib" perspective to be what scripture itself presents.



[I can't say what he sees/understands SINCE that time... he hasn't posted any further, that I am aware of anyway]




P.S. I do think there are many more who "READ" than COMMENT. = )

His handle is eternally-gratefull

 

[DavidTree]

You are taking this TOO FAR because the Day and Hour IS NOT a Season. Jesus told us we can know the Season and should know the Season in Matt. 24:32-35. The Day and hour is a reference to the Feast of Trumps (think LAST TRUMP) which always ended THE SUMMER HARVEST (Think Chuch Age). So, Jesus fulfilled the three Spring Feasts of Passover, Unleavened Bread (No Sin), and First-fruits (firstfruits of the Grave). We are now in the Summer Harvest or Feast of Weeks/Pentecost (Church Age).

The Feast of Trumps ALWAYS ended the Summer Harvest and started the New Year, but the Jews couldn't blow the Trumps to end the Harvest until the New Moon Appeared, and it always appeared over a 2 day period of time, thus they had to sen out Two-witnesses who would send back the information as soon as the saw the New Moon, and immediately the Trumps started blowing, they would blow 11 times in 9 batches which = 99, then the LAST TRUMP would sound LONGER & LOUDER than all the others before it, and this LAST TRUMP ended the Summer Harvest (think Church Age). This is why Jesus stated we capt know the DAY nor the HOUR, only the Father knows the exact time He is going to send Jesus back, bit just like the Jews knew THE SEASON was at hand, thus it was either one of only 2 days, so they knew they SEASON was at hand, but they did not know the EXACT Day nor Hour that the Harvest would end on. But, we can know THE SEASON. And the SEASON is now at hand, just like the Jews knew to go out and look for the New Moon, we now to look for the New Beginning under Jesus NOW.

The whole he knows not the DAY nor HOUR is way overblown, information. I am looking for THE SEASON, not the EXACT Day nor Hour. We are now in TAT SEASON. I know, its wat I do/

Jesus said to them, “My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me, and to finish His work. 35Do you not say, ‘There are still four months and then comes the harvest’? Behold, I say to you, lift up your eyes and look at the fields, for they are already white for harvest! 36And he who reaps receives wages, and gathers fruit for eternal life, that both he who sows and he who reaps may rejoice together. 37For in this the saying is true: ‘One sows and another reaps.’ 38I sent you to reap that for which you have not labored; others have labored, and you have entered into their labors.”

If you want to believe the word of God - then believe what is written = 2 Thess 2 , Daniel 7 , Matt24 , Revelation

Nothing will override what is written - especially not the words of men.

 

[SaltwaterGirl]

Greetings, sibs

Have you ever wondered why you were born in this generation? ….the last generation? ….the generation when our Father expects His children who are called by HiS name to stand up for Him when it counts the very most?—To give testimony by the power of the Holy Spirit Who will speak through us whereby the whole world will hear the Truth of God’s Word? It is God’s people (anybody know who the bruisers mentioned in the Bible are?) who will stand up at the very end for our Father. We won’t be looking for an easy way out, either. This is our destiny—to stand and endure until our Savior returns at the 7th Trump.

Luke 21:12-19

12 But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons. You will be brought before kings and rulers for My name’s sake. 13 But it will turn out for you as an occasion for testimony. 14 Therefore settle it in your hearts not to meditate beforehand on what you will answer; 15 for I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able to contradict or resist. 16 You will be betrayed even by parents and brothers, relatives and friends; and they will put some of you to death. 17 And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. 18 But not a hair of your head shall be lost. 19 By your patience possess your souls.

 

[Absolutely]

I'm sorry you are so bound up in this thing that you elevate it to the level of scripture.
Pretribulation rapture is not scripture. You have simply learned the doctrine well & learned where to disassemble scripture
to reconstruct it around the doctrine- with the doctrine as the central focus.

It's a peripheral belief, an idea. Not a central component of our Christian faith. It is not worthy of even being doctrine.
It is not Jesus teaching. While you are on the soapbox please refrain from accusing Christians of calling Chirst a liar.
We are believers. We believe him. Teachers with the new, extra-biblical doctrine of pretribulation rapture we do not believe.

The angrier & more overbearing you become is evidence against pretribulation rapture.

Lol
The parting words of the bible, the heart cry of heaven...is the pretrib rapture.

I think you do not know what the rapture is.
In fact i dont think ANY postribber knows.


Psssssssst.....it is the gathering of the bride by the groom.


In no way, anywhere, is the rapture associated with the white horses, the conquoring king, or any kind of killing.

You have zero standing.
None

 

[Absolutely]

Interesting points Laura,
I would add to those observations that in Acts 8:39-40 after the baptisim of the Ethiopian, Philip was taken by The Holy Spirt. The Greek word used in verse 39 is harpazo. The famous word of action we have replaced in pop-Christianity with "rapture" But Philip was taken to another place on earth.

Acts 8 (NIV)
39 When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing. 40 Philip, however, appeared at Azotus and traveled about, preaching the gospel in all the towns until he reached Caesarea.

What an amazing devotion to a tired debunked postrib rapture


I have never seen such indirectness of verses to barely begin to undergird some power point

 

[Absolutely]

Jesus said to them, “My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me, and to finish His work. 35Do you not say, ‘There are still four months and then comes the harvest’? Behold, I say to you, lift up your eyes and look at the fields, for they are already white for harvest! 36And he who reaps receives wages, and gathers fruit for eternal life, that both he who sows and he who reaps may rejoice together. 37For in this the saying is true: ‘One sows and another reaps.’ 38I sent you to reap that for which you have not labored; others have labored, and you have entered into their labors.”

If you want to believe the word of God - then believe what is written = 2 Thess 2 , Daniel 7 , Matt24 , Revelation

Nothing will override what is written - especially not the words of men.

Now what exactly does all that do for a postrib rapture?

Are you thinking you made a point?

 

[Absolutely]

.
"""We are believers. We believe him. Teachers with the new, extra-biblical doctrine of pretribulation rapture we do not believe."""

From the same doctrine that actually uses dead men and one word cliches as ACTUAL PART OF THEIR DOCTRINE

IN FACT you just referred to dead men as the central heart of your doctrine

 

[Absolutely]

""""It is not Jesus teaching. While you are on the soapbox please refrain from accusing Christians of calling Chirst a liar."""

I dont like calling people liars, but what a lie you just put on the www.

Amazing that we have laid out JESUS WORDS that you ACTUALLY HAVE SUNK into saying JESUS WORDS are lies.

SMH.

What a low point of desperation for a tired debunked doctrine.

.....that none of you even has one verse to its credit


Not a single verse!!!!!

 

[SaltwaterGirl]

Greetings, sibs

Have you ever wondered why you were born in this generation? ….the last generation? ….the generation when our Father expects His children who are called by HiS name to stand up for Him when it counts the very most?—To give testimony by the power of the Holy Spirit Who will speak through us whereby the whole world will hear the Truth of God’s Word? It is God’s people (anybody know who the bruisers mentioned in the Bible are?) who will stand up at the very end for our Father. We won’t be looking for an easy way out, either. This is our destiny—to stand and endure until our Savior returns at the 7th Trump.

Luke 21:12-19

12 But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons. You will be brought before kings and rulers for My name’s sake. 13 But it will turn out for you as an occasion for testimony. 14 Therefore settle it in your hearts not to meditate beforehand on what you will answer; 15 for I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able to contradict or resist. 16 You will be betrayed even by parents and brothers, relatives and friends; and they will put some of you to death. 17 And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. 18 But not a hair of your head shall be lost. 19 By your patience possess your souls.

I just want to delve a tad on who these bruisers are. (please earnestly consider)

Daniel 11:30

30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.

Smith's Bible Dictionary
Chittim, Kittim:
(bruisers) a family or race descended from Javan (Genesis 10:4; 1 Chronicles 1:7). Authorized Version KITTIM. Chittim is frequently noticed in Scripture (Numbers 24:24; Isaiah 23:1; 23:12; Jeremiah 2:10; Ezekiel 27:6; Daniel 11:30).

 

[akaBeliever]

I just want to delve a tad on who these bruisers are. (please earnestly consider)

Daniel 11:30

30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.

Smith's Bible Dictionary
Chittim, Kittim:
(bruisers) a family or race descended from Javan (Genesis 10:4; 1 Chronicles 1:7). Authorized Version KITTIM. Chittim is frequently noticed in Scripture (Numbers 24:24; Isaiah 23:1; 23:12; Jeremiah 2:10; Ezekiel 27:6; Daniel 11:30).

Amen! It’s important for us in these end times to have enough knowledge to “have intelligence” with those who oppose Christ, enough knowledge to put the enemy in confusion and allow the seeds of Truth to sink into the good soil.

 

[DavidTree]

Amen! It’s important for us in these end times to have enough knowledge to “have intelligence” with those who oppose Christ, enough knowledge to put the enemy in confusion and allow the seeds of Truth to sink into the good soil.

The times are so deceptive that there are those who oppose Christ with open Bibles in there hands.

God has given us clues to discern:

Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; 15and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

17You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; 18but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen.

Take notice of what the error of the wicked is.
Obvious sin is a "no-brainer" - do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal
But the greatest sin took place in the Garden just as Peter reminds us.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

His handle is eternally-gratefull

Thanks.

Actually, I was referring to a newer member who had joined just recently.

And even though eternally-gratefull also had mentioned they were studying and considering the matter, e-g still said he hadn't fully come to a solid conclusion about it, but was wanting to at least tackle some of the arguments he felt were coming against the 'pre-trib' viewpoint that he believed were not convincing (per scripture, and even from his 'yet-undecided' position). At least, the last I'd heard from him regarding this.

I appreciate your help and your input!

I think (if I'm recalling correctly) that the member's name was Bryan... (fairly new member). And no, he did not express that his having come to a conclusion had anything to do with my posts (as cv5 had intimated)...

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Nehemiah 6, in that chapter after listing those of the faith (Enoch in the list of those of faith in Hebrews 11:5) says:
"All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth."--1 Corinthians 16:19

I can see how people misunderstand this Scripture, but Scripture never contradicts itself. Again, we must look at the surrounding verses and the whole of scripture. Jesus said plainly, "--John 3:13
how he was 'translated' i don't know, but it says clearly he died in Hebrews.

Laura (and readers),

Consider what I'd put in another old post (I disagree with your conclusion that Scripture says "he [Enoch, v.5] died").

The passage calls for a careful examination... I'm referring particularly to Hebrews 11:8-15,15
("13 THESE [G3778 ('these' in particular)] all died in [kata - G2596] faith"... and take particular note of what v.15 was saying ABOUT THEM--them in particular--because the passage referring specifically to "THESE" [per v.13, starting from verse 8] limits who its scope is covering [it's not covering "Enoch" v.5, in this section]):

Post #17 - https://christianchat.com/threads/what-happened-to-enochs-body.195994/post-4432387

 

[Laura798]

Interesting points Laura,
I would add to those observations that in Acts 8:39-40 after the baptisim of the Ethiopian, Philip was taken by The Holy Spirt. The Greek word used in verse 39 is harpazo. The famous word of action we have replaced in pop-Christianity with "rapture" But Philip was taken to another place on earth.

Acts 8 (NIV)
39 When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing. 40 Philip, however, appeared at Azotus and traveled about, preaching the gospel in all the towns until he reached Caesarea.

Yes, right, Lucy! And here is another when the disciples had taken Jesus into the boat after he had walked on the water. So not only Jesus but all that were on the boat!

""So they were willing to take Him into the boat, and immediately the boat was at the land to which they were going."--John 6:21

Bible Ref Commentary:
The gospel of John records seven specific miracles, which are described as signs—meaning events carrying some specific meaning, purpose, or message. In John's case, these are collected as evidence that Jesus Christ really is God incarnate. Two are recorded in this chapter alone: Christ feeding thousands (John 6:1–15) and Christ walking on the water (John 6:16–21). Here, however, there is another miracle which is described in an almost off-handed way.

Mark chapter 6 and Matthew chapter 14 give the details which John leaves out of this account. The men crossed the Sea of Galilee at Jesus' directive (Mark 6:45), encountering high winds and rough seas. Jesus, however, is watching from the shore, and walks out to them sometime just before sunrise (Mark 6:48). Even though the men are terrified at what appears to be a ghost, Peter works up the courage to walk on water, at least for a few steps, before being rescued by Jesus. The disciples then bring Peter and Jesus on board (Matthew 14:27–33).

This verse describes the "bonus" miracle of John chapter 6: when the disciples take Jesus into the boat, they are "immediately" at their destination! https://www.bibleref.com/John/6/John-6-21.html

 

[cv5]

Don't forget
4. Amillennialism, which is the biblical view. Rapture is never mentioned in the Bible. Amillennials know there is no rapture. The word itself was a Mistransliteration by Jerome, in the 4th century AD. He was translating Koine Greek into Latin, but did not know Greek well. He went from harpazo in Greek to rapture in Latin.

I'm a partial preterist. I believe that when Titus razed Jerusalem in 70 AD, the temple caught fire and burned to the ground, and thousands starved to death or died by the sword, etc. That was the tribulation. That was what Jesus warned his disciples about. I believe full preterism is a heresy, because the Second Coming of Jesus has not occurred

You admit to being in amillennialist? Well I'm glad that's out in the open to be very honest. Answers a lot of questions pertaining to your take on exegesis and eschatology.