How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church
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Most of postrib talking points have nothing to do with a postrib rapture.
Comical indeed
Has anyone seen these documentaries? The Days of Noah: The Flood part 1, The Days of Noah: Judgement Hour part 2,
The Days of Noah: The Valley of Decision part 3, The Days of Noah: Ark of Fire part 4. It is on Prime.
The Days of Noah: The Flood: Directed by Michael McCaffrey. With Doug Batchelor, Stephen Bohr, Leonard Brand, Art Chadwick. THE DAYS OF NOAH series investigates the revealing prophetic parallels between the message of Noah and the book of Revelation to uncover as never before, the Truth about the Ark of refuge at the end of time and how to enter into it.
The physical evidence left behind warns us of another judgment to come, but when? The second film in "The Days of Noah" series, "Judgment Hour," answers this question. Just before the Flood, Noah gave a judgment hour message to the world and likewise, a prophecy in the book of Daniel tells us when the judgment hour …
Parts 1,2,3, are free part 4 is $4.99. If you watch it let me know what you think. It covers this thread.
And of course it talks about William Miller
Sometimes false prophets are orthodox Christians who sincerely believe that God has given them a special insight that no one else has been given. They become self-deceived, and despite their sincerity, they end up leading many fellow Christians astray.
William Miller (1782-1849) was such a man. As one historian has summed him up: “He was no bug-eyed fanatic.” Rather, he was a “square-jawed, honest, church-going farmer.”1 But he became a “prophet of doom” whose false prophecies ruined the lives of many people and caused tens of thousands to become disillusioned with their faith.
Miller was born and raised in upstate New York. In 1803 he married and moved to Vermont where he became a farmer and served as sheriff and justice of the peace.
This area of the nation was awash at the time with millennial dreams. When Miller was converted from Deism in 1816, he became caught up in the millennial fever.
His Prophetic Discovery
As Miller later explained, he began to search the Scriptures diligently to discover truth. Within two years of his conversion, he became convinced that a very special truth had been revealed to him. It concerned the meaning of Daniel 8:11-14.2 This passage states that a time will come when “the sanctuary” will be trampled and that the sanctuary will not be restored “for 2,300 evenings and mornings.”
This is a prophecy about a prophetic type of the Antichrist, a Greek tyrant by the name of Antiochus Epiphanes, who stopped the sacrifices in the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem in 168 BC. Many scholars believe the reference to 2,300 evenings and mornings refers to 1,150 days (composed of 1,150 mornings and 1,150 evenings). If so, then the time period would constitute the three years and 55 days from Tishri 168 BC, when the sacrifices ceased, to Chislev 165 BC (December 25th), when the Temple was cleansed and the sacrifices were resumed.
But Miller ignored the context of the passage and jumped to the conclusion that the “2,300 evenings and mornings” stood for 2,300 days, which, in turn, were symbolic of 2,300 years. Then, assuming the date of the prophecy was 457 BC, Miller added 2,300 years and concluded that the Lord would return in 1843.
There were a number of problems with Miller’s conclusion:
Anyone knowledgeable of Bible prophecy could have quickly corrected Miller’s erroneous teaching. But Bible prophecy had been sorely ignored by both Catholics and non-Catholics for 1,400 years, ever since Augustine had spiritualized all of God’s Prophetic Word in 400 AD, arguing that the Church is the fulfillment of prophecies concerning the Millennium.
In short, the Church at large was wallowing in ignorance of Bible prophecy, and that made the average person in the pew a sitting-duck for an end-time date-setter.
The Days of Noah: The Valley of Decision part 3, The Days of Noah: Ark of Fire part 4. It is on Prime.
The Days of Noah: The Flood: Directed by Michael McCaffrey. With Doug Batchelor, Stephen Bohr, Leonard Brand, Art Chadwick. THE DAYS OF NOAH series investigates the revealing prophetic parallels between the message of Noah and the book of Revelation to uncover as never before, the Truth about the Ark of refuge at the end of time and how to enter into it.
The physical evidence left behind warns us of another judgment to come, but when? The second film in "The Days of Noah" series, "Judgment Hour," answers this question. Just before the Flood, Noah gave a judgment hour message to the world and likewise, a prophecy in the book of Daniel tells us when the judgment hour …
Parts 1,2,3, are free part 4 is $4.99. If you watch it let me know what you think. It covers this thread.
And of course it talks about William Miller
Sometimes false prophets are orthodox Christians who sincerely believe that God has given them a special insight that no one else has been given. They become self-deceived, and despite their sincerity, they end up leading many fellow Christians astray.
William Miller (1782-1849) was such a man. As one historian has summed him up: “He was no bug-eyed fanatic.” Rather, he was a “square-jawed, honest, church-going farmer.”1 But he became a “prophet of doom” whose false prophecies ruined the lives of many people and caused tens of thousands to become disillusioned with their faith.
Miller was born and raised in upstate New York. In 1803 he married and moved to Vermont where he became a farmer and served as sheriff and justice of the peace.
This area of the nation was awash at the time with millennial dreams. When Miller was converted from Deism in 1816, he became caught up in the millennial fever.
His Prophetic Discovery
As Miller later explained, he began to search the Scriptures diligently to discover truth. Within two years of his conversion, he became convinced that a very special truth had been revealed to him. It concerned the meaning of Daniel 8:11-14.2 This passage states that a time will come when “the sanctuary” will be trampled and that the sanctuary will not be restored “for 2,300 evenings and mornings.”
This is a prophecy about a prophetic type of the Antichrist, a Greek tyrant by the name of Antiochus Epiphanes, who stopped the sacrifices in the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem in 168 BC. Many scholars believe the reference to 2,300 evenings and mornings refers to 1,150 days (composed of 1,150 mornings and 1,150 evenings). If so, then the time period would constitute the three years and 55 days from Tishri 168 BC, when the sacrifices ceased, to Chislev 165 BC (December 25th), when the Temple was cleansed and the sacrifices were resumed.
But Miller ignored the context of the passage and jumped to the conclusion that the “2,300 evenings and mornings” stood for 2,300 days, which, in turn, were symbolic of 2,300 years. Then, assuming the date of the prophecy was 457 BC, Miller added 2,300 years and concluded that the Lord would return in 1843.
There were a number of problems with Miller’s conclusion:
- The prophecy is one that applies to Antiochus, not to the end times.
- There is nothing in the text to indicate that the days are years.
- The prophecy is clearly about the sanctuary of the Temple, but Miller argued that “the cleansing of the sanctuary” was a reference to the purging of the earth by fire! So, he applied the prophecy to the end of the world.
Anyone knowledgeable of Bible prophecy could have quickly corrected Miller’s erroneous teaching. But Bible prophecy had been sorely ignored by both Catholics and non-Catholics for 1,400 years, ever since Augustine had spiritualized all of God’s Prophetic Word in 400 AD, arguing that the Church is the fulfillment of prophecies concerning the Millennium.
In short, the Church at large was wallowing in ignorance of Bible prophecy, and that made the average person in the pew a sitting-duck for an end-time date-setter.
I put William Miller in there because they cover some of him. But its not all about Miller. And of course its not. Its about Christ and His return and judgement.
Hope you all enjoy it as much as I did. Also I am looking for feed back.
GODS BLESSINS
Hope you all enjoy it as much as I did. Also I am looking for feed back.
GODS BLESSINS
This is a ludicrous and baloney post. All those verses speak of the second coming, not some secret second coming Pre-tribs make up making a third "second" coming later.
Plus, not one of those speaks about a pre-trib rapture does it? Nothing about the tribulation or rapture. And these are your special proof texts???? What a joke!
Don't forget
4. Amillennialism, which is the biblical view. Rapture is never mentioned in the Bible. Amillennials know there is no rapture. The word itself was a Mistransliteration by Jerome, in the 4th century AD. He was translating Koine Greek into Latin, but did not know Greek well. He went from harpazo in Greek to rapture in Latin.
I'm a partial preterist. I believe that when Titus razed Jerusalem in 70 AD, the temple caught fire and burned to the ground, and thousands starved to death or died by the sword, etc. That was the tribulation. That was what Jesus warned his disciples about. I believe full preterism is a heresy, because the Second Coming of Jesus has not occurred
My question to you is: who is it that you say (Scripture tells us) "ENTERS" the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom upon His "RETURN"??
The promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom, variously known as:
--"the age [singular] to come" (immediately follows "the end [singular] of the age [singular]"--Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50--when the angels will "REAP"; found in Matt12:32 just prior to Jesus speaking to His disciples about "the age [singular] to come");
--"the wedding FEAST / SUPPER" (Matt25:1-13; Matt22:9-14);
--the "meal [G347]" (Luke 12:36-37,38,40,42-44,45-48 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding" ...THEN the meal [G347]; parallel Matt24:42-51; also as found in Matt8:11 and its parallel);
--"the kingdom OF THE heavenS" (too many to list, but all as found in Matthew);
--the "BLESSED" time (Daniel 12:12 "BLESSED is the one who waiteth, and cometh to the 1335 days"; Found also in about 8 other passages all speaking to the same "setting"/context [their ENTRANCE INTO the earthly MK age]--Rev19:9 [distinct from 19:7]; Matt24:45-47 parallel Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44); Matt25:31-34; Rev16:15-16 Armageddon time-slot / 2nd Coming to the earth; and MORE...)
--etc... (that's a good start)
____________
According to your viewpoint (if I understand yours aright), you do NOT believe it is the "saints / believers / the righteous / the BLESSED" who ENTER the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom (in their mortal bodies, capable of reproducing / bearing children) commencing upon His "RETURN" there, but [...who?? other than this??]
[may the reader compare Matthew 24:37 (2nd Coming to the earth passages) with Daniel 2:35c alongside Gen9:1 "and FILL [/FILLED] the [whole] earth"]
Could you please use a modern translation? Or Greek if you want. I've studied modern English, and several years of seminary Greek. Hebrew, French and German. Early Modern English is a language I have never understood. Use the KJV, but remember to put a modern translation after, so the majority can understand! Thanks in advance!
Where did you see in there that Jesus returns before the great tribulation to gather His elect? It's not there.
I pity those who cannot comprehend the pretrib rapture. Honestly I really do.....
I read your post and immediately thought of Isaiah 5:20. I believe this scripture is for you today:
20Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
And most remarkably, please see Revelation 7:9-14.
Here is yet ANOTHER DIFFERENT group of the redeemed "of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues".
Commentary describing this group is given to John (who is now OBSERVING FROM HEAVEN Rev4:1) by an Elder (ALSO IN HEAVEN), spoken from the mezzanine as if watching the entire spectacle play out ON THE EARTH.
How do the post-tribbers come to terms with TWO GROUPS so disparate in time and description, one (the 24 Elders) CLEARLY PRECEDING THE OTHER, yet both having the common attribute of being the redeemed "of every tribe and tongue and people and nation" ???
Evidently ONLY the pre-tribbers have the right answers to this dilemma. in fact the pre-tribbers ALWAYS have all the right answers ALL THE TIME.....EVERY TIME.....
This is easy. Almost all of Revelation is prophecy of future events. For example, the Great Tribulation has not happened yet up until the present day. Revelation 7:9-14 hasn't happened yet either. John's vision is of a future event that has not yet happened.
I would even venture to say that Revelation 7:9-14 hurts the pre-trib doctrine. It shows that there will be multitudes of Christians who will make it to Heaven from dying in the great tribulation.
Why is this a problem for pre-trib? In the pre-trib theory, there are no multitudes of Christians who die in the great tribulation and go to heaven. In your doctrine, all of the Christians get raptured out before the GT - Revelation 7:9-14 refutes pre-trib.
"No not one, no not one"....!
I'll just leave this here.
Revelation 13:7-9
7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 9If any man have an ear, let him hear.
Reply to post # 1,905 (see attached video).
Then reply to post # 1,844.
Amillennialism is a heresy. Preterism is caused by Biblical ignorance. Daniel's 70th week is not broken up into chunks, nor has it started.
TheDivineWatermark said:
My question to you is: who is it that you say (Scripture tells us) "ENTERS" the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom upon His "RETURN"??
The promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom, variously known as:
--"the age [singular] to come" (immediately follows "the end [singular] of the age [singular]"--Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50--when the angels will "REAP"; found in Matt12:32 just prior to Jesus speaking to His disciples about "the age [singular] to come");
--"the wedding FEAST / SUPPER" (Matt25:1-13; Matt22:9-14);
--the "meal [G347]" (Luke 12:36-37,38,40,42-44,45-48 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding" ...THEN the meal [G347]; parallel Matt24:42-51; also as found in Matt8:11 and its parallel);
--"the kingdom OF THE heavenS" (too many to list, but all as found in Matthew);
--the "BLESSED" time (Daniel 12:12 "BLESSED is the one who waiteth, and cometh to the 1335 days"; Found also in about 8 other passages all speaking to the same "setting"/context [their ENTRANCE INTO the earthly MK age]--Rev19:9 [distinct from 19:7]; Matt24:45-47 parallel Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44); Matt25:31-34; Rev16:15-16 Armageddon time-slot / 2nd Coming to the earth; and MORE...)
--etc... (that's a good start
____________
According to your viewpoint (if I understand yours aright), you do NOT believe it is the "saints / believers / the righteous / the BLESSED" who ENTER the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom (in their mortal bodies, capable of reproducing / bearing children) commencing upon His "RETURN" there, but [...who?? other than this??]
[may the reader compare Matthew 24:37 (2nd Coming to the earth passages) with Daniel 2:35c alongside Gen9:1 "and FILL [/FILLED] the [whole] earth"]
Well, I see in my post you had quoted, that for the most part, I left the scripture references for the student to look them up in the Greek themselves... if they so choose.
[by the way, I'm not "kjv only"... in case you thought so... this isn't the first time you've alluded to such a suggestion... so I'm just making that clear. = ) I suggest ppl go look at the Greek when I leave the references, as I did in that post. I'm not going to do everyone's homework for them... In that post of mine, I really only see one example of where I spelled out a verse, but opted to mainly place the references for the bulk of them, for others to go look the verses up themselves (within their own contexts), when ascertaining the point I was making about them. Thanks.]
Yeah, William Miller was an "Historicist"... so got off on the wrong footing from the get-go.
Overcome them.
Yep good verse.
Goes alongside " every man, woman and child take the mark"
No such thing or possibility of a postrib rapture
Then straiten us out with your true and correct deal.
Maybe you can be the first to show me my verses are way off?
Nobody else has. Nor have they tried.
Of course "the great tribulation" (i.e. the SECOND HALF of the 7-yr period) hasn't happened yet, nor has the FIRST half of it started yet (1Th5:2-3 it ARRIVES "exactly like" the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]"... of those which JESUS SPOKE ABOUT! and which are EQUIVALENT to the SEALS of Rev6)
Read Rev7:9-17 ...then COMPARE verse 17 with Isa49:10, an earthly Millennial Kingdom passage... and compare the G4165 word in v.17 to the other occurrences of this word in Revelation... to see what it is referencing [see this word also at LINK]
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/7-17.htm
Then, note also, "pre-tribbers" are NOT saying that no one will be coming to faith in Christ FOLLOWING "our Rapture"... THEY WILL... a great many will! (not all ppl, of course)... and Rev7 is just one of the passages regarding this. In other posts in this thread, I listed out a number of OTHER passages showing the same concept...
[I'm not sure whether "abs" sees it this way... his "partial rapture theory" viewpoint and his "multiple raptures" viewpoint is not in alignment with straight-up "pre-trib rapture" viewpoint
]
All your comments are ungodly right now - you are a mocker and not walking in or speaking in the Holy Spirit.
You, most especially right now, are the comical one and need a change of heart that aligns itself with what pleases God.
You have completely failed in bringing forth a single scripture where the Lord Jesus Christ or the Apostles have spoken of pre-trib rapture.
You will be kept in your darkness of mocking the Saints who speak the truth and you will be judged for it.
Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. See how the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the earth, waiting patiently for it until it receives the early and latter rain. 8You also be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord [f]is at hand.
9Do not grumble against one another, brethren, lest you be condemned. Behold, the Judge is standing at the door! 10My brethren, take the prophets, who spoke in the name of the Lord, as an example of suffering and patience. 11Indeed we count them blessed who endure. You have heard of the perseverance of Job and seen the end intended by the Lord—that the Lord is very compassionate and merciful.