How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

[TheDivineWatermark]

9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven

Pretrib rapture.

Do postribs unpack this differently?

The setting and everything about it is pretrib rapture.

Even I (a "pre-tribber") unpack this differently.




As I've mentioned in past posts about this Acts 1 passage, this was Jesus' SECOND time to ascend... the FIRST time was some "40 Days" earlier ON FIRSTFRUIT (His "Resurrection Day"; Lev23:10-12... 1Cor15:20... John 20:17 said to Mary Magdalene [only], "I ASCEND [active]"... where SHE was TOLD to "Go to my brethren and SAY UNTO them" [but no one SAW it take place])...


... His LATER ascension (Acts 1) was "VISIBLE," (when they BEHELD Him traveling [G4198] into Heaven, 1:11), which is how [/the manner in which] He will RETURN to the earth when "EVERY EYE shall SEE Him" (Rev1:7; Matt24:29-31)... His "MANIFESTATION of His presence/parousia" (2Th2:8b... distinct from 2Th2:1); The *pattern* is consistent!

 

[DavidTree]

No "pre-tribber" disagrees with this.

I've pointed out how even the Thessalonians (2Th4:1) were experiencing "persecutions and tribulations YE ENDURE"



Ever wonder why it says "through MANY" rather than "through ALL tribulations"??



So... even in 2Cor1:4 and 7:4 it states "in all the tribulation OF US"

"The Church which is His body" has experienced this all throughout its entire existence on the earth SINCE THE FIRST CENTURY (Eph1:20-23 WHEN [as to its existence]).

We are not waiting for "the future 7-yr period" IN ORDER to EXPERIENCE IT.

But this still does not prove that WE ("the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY") are slated to be IN and A PART OF that "future [SPECIFIC] 7-yr period," see.




It seems you are wanting to equate the word "FIRST [adverb; G4412]" in this 1Th4:13-18 passage to the word "FIRST [adjective; G4413] in Rev20:5,6 (in which verses, by the way, are NOT conveying, "this is the first time in the chronology that saints will have been resurrected" [as you insist it's conveying!]... NO!...

...because the "2W" will have been resurrected from the dead at the "6th Trumpet [events] / 2nd Woe" time-slot, at a point in time COMPLETELY DISTINCT from the point in time that those "beheaded saints" [of the 2nd half of the Trib yrs] will be resurrected, 20:4b at the END of the Trib);

...but this is problematic for your "post-trib rapture" viewpoint in another way... because you must also disregard another "FIRST" word (which DOES happen at that time-slot), "[will be said to the angels/reapers] Gather/Collect ye FIRST [adverb; G4412] the TARES" (Matt13:30... from a passage [vv.24,30,39,40,49-50] which corresponds with Matt24:3 and Jesus' 2-chpt RESPONSE [chpts 24&25]);

...and in this Matt13:30 context, "the righteous" do not LIFT OFF THE EARTH (whereas it is the "TARES" which are "gathered OUT"!!)

i see you like to gamble and have no fear of adding your words to the words of our LORD JESUS CHRIST.

"in Rev20:5,6 (in which verses, by the way, are NOT conveying, "this is the first time in the chronology that saints will have been resurrected" [as you insist it's conveying!]... NO!...

i am not a gambler - always hated it BUT this is a sure BET

And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
1 Thessalonians 1:10

Do you see the HOLY SPIRIT telling us to "wait for the two witnesses" = NOPE = adding to God's Words

Our Elohim = FATHER SON HOLY SPIRIT = Knows all things BEFORE they come to pass including the lie of pre-trib rapture.

1.) God knew of the lies satan would whisper into the ears of men/women who would desire MORE the what God has said.
satan's tactics have never changed = 2 Timothy 4:3

2.) God said HIS SAINTS are Resurrected at HIS Coming = 1 Thess 1:10 & 4:13-18 , Revelation 20:4-6
satan says "did God really say the Resurrection occurs before the rapture - God knows you can be raptured Before HIS Coming"

3.) God said the man of sin comes Before HIS Coming = Daniel ch7, Matt 24: 15 - 31, 1 John 2:18, Rev. 6:9-11, 7:13-14, 14:9-13, 20:4-6
satan says: "did God really say the Antichrist comes before HIS Coming".

4.) God says Not One of His will be left behind = 2 Timothy 2:18, Matt 24:29-31, 1 Thess 1:10, 4:13-18, Acts 1:6-7, 2 Peter 3:1-9
continue = Hebrews 10: 35-39 and James 5: 7-12
satan says: "did God really say he will leave no one behind, let me show you where He does this(misinterpret) Matt 25:1-13

5.) God says it is His HOLY SPIRIT that alone interprets His Prophetic Word thru His Faithful Chosen Witnesses - 2 Peter 1:19-21

satan says: Come on man, you have the holy spirit just as much as they do - let me show you.........

WARNING: (we should) not follow cleverly devised fables..... - 1 Peter 1:16

BLESSING: For we did not follow cleverly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of His majesty. For He received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to Him from the Majestic Glory, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” And we ourselves heard this voice from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain.
1 Peter 16b - 18

This is a brief summary - this is not a exhaustive exposure of the lie of pre-trib rapture and the many errors connected to it.

 

[DavidTree]

It never ceases to amaze me that TDW's posts are not being filed into your spiritual/mental library. Opinions aside....there are a ton of useful facts therein. BTW....he is right as far as doctrine goes. Why you cannot see this is astounding to me.

You know - i actually reconsidered your offer to accept the teachings of TDW

So i made a comparison = TDW and his teachings on my left and the HOLY SPIRIT on my Right

split second into the comparison, i made the Right Choice

 

[ewq1938]

"... what the Spirit saith unto the churchES" (said 7 times in these two chpts )

Each letter applies only to one church.

But let's say you are right, then you still have churchES having Tribulation since one letter speaks of that. Again, no support for any part of church leaving Earth before GT. The whole purpose of the GT is for church to have tribulation.

 

[cv5]

The point is using something in one letter is meaningless when opposite is said in another letter. Even if the passage you quoted is rapture, that's one church out of 7 which would leave the majority of church going through the great tribulation.

You pretribs need to start saying 1/7th of the church is raptured if you insist that verse is the rapture.

Not so. The seven epistles are for all Churches and all times regardless of their unique specificity. For example, crowns, white raiment, and thrones are scattered through three different epistles.....nevertheless ALL Christians will be bequeathed will all of these gifts.

 

[DavidTree]

Each letter applies only to one church.

But let's say you are right, then you still have churchES having Tribulation since one letter speaks of that. Again, no support for any part of church leaving Earth before GT. The whole purpose of the GT is for church to have tribulation.

Here is another Word of God that completely destroys any pre-trib rapture.

Be patient, then, brothers, until the Lord’s coming. See how the farmer awaits the precious fruit of the soil—how patient he is for the fall and spring rains.
You, too, be patient and strengthen your hearts, because the Lord’s coming is near. Do not complain about one another, brothers, so that you will not be judged. Look, the Judge is standing at the door!

Brothers, as an example of patience in affliction, take the prophets who spoke in the name of the Lord.
See how blessed we consider those who have persevered.
You have heard of Job’s perseverance and have seen the outcome from the Lord.
The Lord is full of compassion and mercy.

James 5: 7-11

 

[ewq1938]

Not so. The seven epistles are for all Churches and all times regardless of their unique specificity.

Cool then proves whole church sill suffer some tribulation and that eliminates any possibility to be raptured before tribulation begins.

Rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

Here we see devil casting some of church into prison, then they will be tried, and then tribulation ten days and if they are faithful unto death they get a crown so not only will some face tribulation from devil, some will also die from it.

Thanks for helping disprove pretrib.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
1 Thessalonians 1:10

Do you see the HOLY SPIRIT telling us to "wait for the two witnesses" = NOPE = adding to God's Words

Two things which I'm wondering about what you've put:

1) Are you suggesting that I said anything about "wait for the two witnesses"??

(I've repeatedly stated that we / "the Church which is His body" will not be existing "on the earth" during the time-period when the "2W" will be doing their ministry ["these two prophets"... who "have power... to smite the earth with all plagues as often as they will"] )




2) "...the One delivering US out-from [ek] THE WRATH COMING"... 1Th1:10... where I believe you are likely CONFLATING the word in THIS verse "G362 - anameno - await" ... with that of a DISTINCT Greek word "G3306 - meno - wait / remain" (used elsewhere)...

(IOW, 1Th1:10 is NOT saying, "coz you'll be going THROUGH the earthly-located "7-yr period" leading UP TO His "RETURN" to the earth. No.)







[from my perspective, your post did not make much sense... ]

 

[cv5]

according to scripture some willbe alive when he comes:
“For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.”
1 Thess 4:16-17
Ps Lol? 🤔

Yep. That would be the harpazo. Jesus snatching His bride.....WITHOUT WARNING...and without signs. Which occurs BEFORE the man of sin is revealed SIGN. Before the birth pangs SIGN. Before the seals SIGN. Before the 70th week PROPHECY must needs be fulfilled.

There is NO prophetic forewarning of the rapture.....it can happen at any moment with no preconditions.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Here is another Word of God that completely destroys any pre-trib rapture.

Be patient, then, brothers, until the Lord’s coming. See how the farmer awaits the precious fruit of the soil—how patient he is for the fall and spring rains.
You, too, be patient and strengthen your hearts, because the Lord’s coming is near. Do not complain about one another, brothers, so that you will not be judged. Look, the Judge is standing at the door!

Brothers, as an example of patience in affliction, take the prophets who spoke in the name of the Lord.
See how blessed we consider those who have persevered.
You have heard of Job’s perseverance and have seen the outcome from the Lord.
The Lord is full of compassion and mercy.

James 5: 7-11

James 1:18 (as I've pointed out in past posts) says, "A KIND of firstfruit" (meaning, there is more than ONE "kind" of "firstfruit" [see the TWO distinct mentions of "firstfruit" in Lev23!! (KEY!)]... and indeed there is more than ONE "harvest" in scripture and in nature [Again, *we* (/"the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY") are NOT the "WHEAT" harvest!])

 

[DavidTree]

Two things which I'm wondering about what you've put:

1) Are you suggesting that I said anything about "wait for the two witnesses"??

(I've repeatedly stated that we / "the Church which is His body" will not be existing "on the earth" during the time-period when the "2W" will be doing their ministry ["these two prophets"... who "have power... to smite the earth with all plagues as often as they will"] )




2) "...the One delivering US out-from [ek] THE WRATH COMING"... 1Th1:10... where I believe you are likely CONFLATING the word in THIS verse "G362 - anameno - await" ... with that of a DISTINCT Greek word "G3306 - meno - wait / remain" (used elsewhere)...

(IOW, 1Th1:10 is NOT saying, "coz you'll be going THROUGH the earthly-located "7-yr period" leading UP TO His "RETURN" to the earth. No.)







[from my perspective, your post did not make much sense... ]

OK - Got it - You add to God's words by repeatedly by saying: ""the Church which is His body" will not be existing "on the earth" during the time-period when the "2W" will be doing their ministry"

The LORD JESUS CHRIST says:
And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
Revelation chapter 14

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands;
and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.
This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection:
on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[rayzor]

Each letter applies only to one church.

But let's say you are right, then you still have churchES having Tribulation since one letter speaks of that. Again, no support for any part of church leaving Earth before GT. The whole purpose of the GT is for church to have tribulation.

ewq1938 Philadelphia Because u have kept my word with patience.I will also keep u from the hour of testing.That is to try them that dwell on the earth.This may not have to do with the tribulation, but it might.I think we fell to make the distinctions of the kind of tribulation there's one kind for unrepented people and for the refinement of the saints.And then there's tribulations notice the s those are just the trials of life.Most people are fighting over the great tribulation.Lettuce a least make this distinction The day of the lord affect all.And so does the rapture but the distinction is that it's not the final judgement during the rapture.The day of the lord is the final judgement.

 

[cv5]

Cool then proves whole church sill suffer some tribulation and that eliminates any possibility to be raptured before tribulation begins.

Rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

Here we see devil casting some of church into prison, then they will be tried, and then tribulation ten days and if they are faithful unto death they get a crown so not only will some face tribulation from devil, some will also die from it.

Thanks for helping disprove pretrib.

Read Foxe's book of martyrs. Christian persecution has always been with us. Until the rapture of course....

 

[Laura798]

Yep. That would be the harpazo. Jesus snatching His bride.....WITHOUT WARNING...and without signs. Which occurs BEFORE the man of sin is revealed SIGN. Before the birth pangs SIGN. Before the seals SIGN. Before the 70th week PROPHECY must needs be fulfilled.

There is NO prophetic forewarning of the rapture.....it can happen at any moment with no preconditions.

No signs and no warnings? Hmm? I think most people consider a SHOUT and a LOUD Trumpet blast a warning. And the bible says "THE WHOLE WORLD WILL SEE HIS COMING. " He's also NOT going to be alone--he is coming with "Thousands upon thousands of his HOLY ONES (angels).

 

[DavidTree]

Read Foxe's book of martyrs. Christian persecution has always been with us. Until the rapture of course....

If you change "until the rapture" to "until HIS Coming and the Resurrection" you will have a PERFECT word of prophesy

 

[Laura798]

I'm just curious--after all this back and forth between the post-tribbers and pre-tribbers--has anyone changed sides or had any epiphanies? if so I'd love to hear! It's funny that we all believe we are right and it's become a battle amongst Christians--the North and South of Christian chat. I imagine, there are spectators here--"Karen get the popcorn--Dissenter 2 and Hobgoblin 5 are going at it again!"

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

OK - Got it - You add to God's words by repeatedly by saying: ""the Church which is His body" will not be existing "on the earth" during the time-period when the "2W" will be doing their ministry"

There WILL exist "saints" on the earth IN / DURING / WITHIN those future specific LIMITED time-period of "7 yrs" leading up to His Second Coming to the earth... those who will come to faith in Christ FOLLOWING "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]"

(But note: nowhere in Revelation are the "saints" called "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" [Eph1:20-23 WHEN (as to its existence)])




See again the precise wording of the "24 elders" (who are shown wearing CROWNS / stephanous--awarded "IN THAT DAY" [2Tim4:8] and not BEFORE!... and who are sitting on THRONES [WHY?!?!]... and are clothed in the same thing that chpt 3 had PROMISED in "the things WHICH ARE" section... now [chpt 4-5] they're shown in the section of "FUTURE" events [per 1:19c / 4:1 / 1:1 !!]... shown present UP IN Heaven *before* Jesus will "STAND to JUDGE" [Isa3:13, Rev5:6] by means of His opening the FIRST SEAL at the START of those "7 yrs"),

...where they are saying "hast redeemed US to God by thy blood out-of EVERY..." (where "out-of EVERY" entails more then merely 24 individuals merely [the "24 elders" speak for more than merely themselves as 24 individuals])

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

No signs and no warnings? Hmm? I think most people consider a SHOUT and a LOUD Trumpet blast a warning. And the bible says "THE WHOLE WORLD WILL SEE HIS COMING. " He's also NOT going to be alone--he is coming with "Thousands upon thousands of his HOLY ONES (angels).

If there were no signs, he wouldn't have told us to watch.

 

[DavidTree]

I'm just curious--after all this back and forth between the post-tribbers and pre-tribbers--has anyone changed sides or had any epiphanies? if so I'd love to hear! It's funny that we all believe we are right and it's become a battle amongst Christians--the North and South of Christian chat. I imagine, there are spectators here--"Karen get the popcorn--Dissenter 2 and Hobgoblin 5 are going at it again!"

YES, great question - i actually have experienced a few "epiphanies" while testing their words against Scripture.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

He's also NOT going to be alone--he is coming with "Thousands upon thousands of his HOLY ONES (angels)

Note that in Revelation 19:14, where it says, "And the ARMIES which were in heaven [/of heaven] followed Him upon white horses..." (aside from what they are said to be wearing)...

... the Greek word for "ARMIES [G4753; plural here]" is never used in the PLURAL when speaking of the "angels" (alone).