How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

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DavidTree said:

The Coming of the Son of Man
29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
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Correct

You just posted angels gather..not Jesus.

And the gathering is in heaven, not earth.

Thanks.
I agree there are no postrib rapture verses in the postrib rapture workbook
 
Absolutely said:
Just on person is the bride????

Who would that be?

Peter?
Paul?
Click to expand...

Here's what I put:


Those PLURAL "virginS" are not the "Bride [SINGULAR]" ;)


--"and they that were ready went in with [G3326 - accompanying (NOT G4862 UNIONed-with!!)] him TO THE WEDDING FEAST/SUPPER" v.10 (not "the MARRIAGE")



[note the completely DISTINCT *WITH*-word used of US elsewhere... G4862 "UNIONed-with"... which is NOT the "with"-word USED HERE in Matt25 about the PLURAL VIRGINS!]









[and in a different post...]

2Cor11:2 the "A CHASTE VIRGIN [SINGULAR]"... who will be "PRESENTed" [G3936]!! ;)
 
Absolutely said:
Wow

The most vivid picture of the rapture in all of scripture and you missed it
Click to expand...

Oh not at all the most vivid picture our rapture is Revelations itself. Starting with the first church Ephesus, Christ talks about coming back. He has a message of such to each church to Philadelphia. Save for Smyrna. To which they are gonna be martyred so their is no message of him coming. Why they are dead.

So let me be clear is not doctrinal by any means but for me to understand and to get a grasp it makes sense. We know he only had positives things for two churches and since I am pretrib it makes sense for me cause if I look at their status of the two. Smyrna and Philadelphia, one is dead and one is alive so to me makes sense ok why to one he talks about coming and to the other is no mention.

Christ also mentions the crown of life to Smyrna and a crown to Philadelphia. I find it is the same crown the crown of life. Reason being James says, Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

So I find that the crown would be the crown of life since Christ says to Philadelphia, in Rev 3:10-11, Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. 11Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

Anyway getting back to every church save Smyrna their is a message he is coming. To which he says to Philadelphia, Behold I come quickly. Then to Laodicea instead of Christ saying I am coming he says I stand at the door and knock. So after saying he is coming the language switches and is now one of I am here.

The majority of teaching on this is Christ is on the outside looking in and knocking to get their attention. I find that can't be so because it does not fit. Christ clearly says over and over he is coming so why drop that message suddenly and change it up all together.

As well Christ when he told John to write the things he sees. Christ lets it be known he walks amongst the candlesticks. He is present in the churches. As well as we know that where two or more ae gathered there he is in the midst. So I can't buy the message he is on the outside looking in since he is the author of the church and he has already said he is in the midst of the church.

So to me this is where he comes down because again the language is I am here. Then in chapter four says come up hither. Which then chapter 5 makes a big deal how Christ alone is worthy to open the seals. Which seal one introduces the anti-christ and is the start of the tribulation. So I find Rev lays it all out and does so chronologically.

I find that our rapture is verse 20 to verse one of chapter 4.

Matthew 24 and 25 is not for us or the church it is about the 2nd coming and we are not raptured at the 2nd coming so I find that the 10 virgins is not the church but again a expounding by Christ in how I laid out concerning the message Christ had told the Jews during his ministry and also Ezekiel 34.
 
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Lucy-Pevensie said:
Yet again...

The letters to the churches cover 2 chapters.
2 chapters, not 1 verse. You can't cherry pick only that which you like.

Being kept from something does not require a removal to the throne room of heaven for a 7-year marriage supper.
You can't support that theory with this verse.

Protection from danger can be on earth.
Israel was protected from the plagues of Egypt. In Egypt, on earth.
Shadrach Meshach & Abednego were protected from fire. In the furnace.
On earth. Jesus has many ways to keep his people from trials & tribulations.
Click to expand...
Protection through trials and tribulations ON THE EARTH. This is typical and idiomatic of Israel....!

Israel has a destiny and legacy on the earth. As evidenced by a vast plethora of prophecies and Gods unilateral covenants. As is evidenced by the 144,000 Israelite commandos of Revelation.

The Church has a destiny and legacy in heaven....to be with her Husband Jesus and to follow Him forever wherever He goes. Pauls writings NEVER indicate that the Church goes through wrath.

Just like Enoch (a type), the Church will be harpazo-ed away from the time and place of Gods wrath, just as Enoch was removed from the time and place of the flood.

Thank you for invoking this important concept......so supportive of the rapture of the Church.
 
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven

Pretrib rapture.

Do postribs unpack this differently?

The setting and everything about it is pretrib rapture.
 
Lucy-Pevensie said:
People in glass houses.
This isn't an orthodox doctrine you are defending. It's a new pop-culture notion.

I'm a Last day Resurrectionist. I believe as my forbears did.
For nearly 2000 years the church awaited the return of Jesus in glory and the resurrection.

The left-behinder doctrine with 2-returns of Jesus (whatever you want to call it) is the newly-introduced idea.
The politically correct one.
The big-church establishment darling of doctrines
The idea that is pleasing to itching ears.
The woman who wants a baby without labour & delivery.
Click to expand...
A last day resurrectionist position falls apart under very little scrutiny. It's a very dumbed down theory that ignores vast quantities of Scripture.
 
stilllearning said:
Oh not at all the most vivid picture our rapture is Revelations itself. Starting with the first church Ephesus, Christ talks about coming back. He has a message of such to each church to Philadelphia. Save for Smyrna. To which they are gonna be martyred so their is no message of him coming. Why they are dead.

So let me be clear is not doctrinal by any means but for me to understand and to get a grasp it makes sense. We know he only had positives things for two churches and since I am pretrib it makes sense for me cause if I look at their status of the two. Smyrna and Philadelphia, one is dead and one is alive so to me makes sense ok why to one he talks about coming and to the other is no mention.

Christ also mentions the crown of life to Smyrna and a crown to Philadelphia. I find it is the same crown the crown of life. Reason being James says, Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

So I find that the crown would be the crown of life since Christ says to Philadelphia, in Rev 3:10-11, Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. 11Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

Anyway getting back to every church save Smyrna their is a message he is coming. To which he says to Philadelphia, Behold I come quickly. Then to Laodicea instead of Christ saying I am coming he says I stand at the door and knock. So after saying he is coming the language switches and is now one of I am here.

The majority of teaching on this is Christ is on the outside looking in and knocking to get their attention. I find that can't be so because it does not fit. Christ clearly says over and over he is coming so why drop that message suddenly and change it up all together.

As well Christ when he told John to write the things he sees. Christ lets it be known he walks amongst the candlesticks. He is present in the churches. As well as we know that where two or more ae gathered there he is in the midst. So I can't buy the message he is on the outside looking in since he is the author of the church and he has already said he is in the midst of the church.

So to me this is where he comes down because again the language is I am here. Then in chapter four says come up hither. Which then chapter 5 makes a big deal how Christ alone is worthy to open the seals. Which seal one introduces the anti-christ and is the start of the tribulation. So I find Rev lays it all out and does so chronologically.

I find that our rapture is verse 20 to verse one of chapter 4.

Matthew 24 and 25 is not for us or the church it is about the 2nd coming and we are not raptured at the 2nd coming so I find that the 10 virgins is not the church but again a expounding by Christ in how I laid out concerning the message Christ had told the Jews during his ministry and also Ezekiel 34.
Click to expand...
In mat 24 Jesus shifts the timeframe to " before the flood

Noah is used as a preflood gathering

Them immediately Jesus places the one Taken/ left in that dame timeframe.

But then without hesitation he goes into the 10 virgins.

All those dynamics Jesus places " before the flood"

They are all pretrib rapture dynamics.

All solid bible
 
stilllearning said:
Oh not at all the most vivid picture our rapture is Revelations itself. Starting with the first church Ephesus, Christ talks about coming back. He has a message of such to each church to Philadelphia. Save for Smyrna. To which they are gonna be martyred so their is no message of him coming. Why they are dead.

So let me be clear is not doctrinal by any means but for me to understand and to get a grasp it makes sense. We know he only had positives things for two churches and since I am pretrib it makes sense for me cause if I look at their status of the two. Smyrna and Philadelphia, one is dead and one is alive so to me makes sense ok why to one he talks about coming and to the other is no mention.

Christ also mentions the crown of life to Smyrna and a crown to Philadelphia. I find it is the same crown the crown of life. Reason being James says, Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

So I find that the crown would be the crown of life since Christ says to Philadelphia, in Rev 3:10-11, Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. 11Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

Anyway getting back to every church save Smyrna their is a message he is coming. To which he says to Philadelphia, Behold I come quickly. Then to Laodicea instead of Christ saying I am coming he says I stand at the door and knock. So after saying he is coming the language switches and is now one of I am here.

The majority of teaching on this is Christ is on the outside looking in and knocking to get their attention. I find that can't be so because it does not fit. Christ clearly says over and over he is coming so why drop that message suddenly and change it up all together.

As well Christ when he told John to write the things he sees. Christ lets it be known he walks amongst the candlesticks. He is present in the churches. As well as we know that where two or more ae gathered there he is in the midst. So I can't buy the message he is on the outside looking in since he is the author of the church and he has already said he is in the midst of the church.

So to me this is where he comes down because again the language is I am here. Then in chapter four says come up hither. Which then chapter 5 makes a big deal how Christ alone is worthy to open the seals. Which seal one introduces the anti-christ and is the start of the tribulation. So I find Rev lays it all out and does so chronologically.

I find that our rapture is verse 20 to verse one of chapter 4.

Matthew 24 and 25 is not for us or the church it is about the 2nd coming and we are not raptured at the 2nd coming so I find that the 10 virgins is not the church but again a expounding by Christ in how I laid out concerning the message Christ had told the Jews during his ministry and also Ezekiel 34.
Click to expand...
yeah whodda thought that a groom coming for his bride had anything at all to do with the Jesus the groom coming for his bride
 
stilllearning said:
Oh not at all the most vivid picture our rapture is Revelations itself. Starting with the first church Ephesus, Christ talks about coming back. He has a message of such to each church to Philadelphia. Save for Smyrna. To which they are gonna be martyred so their is no message of him coming. Why they are dead.

So let me be clear is not doctrinal by any means but for me to understand and to get a grasp it makes sense. We know he only had positives things for two churches and since I am pretrib it makes sense for me cause if I look at their status of the two. Smyrna and Philadelphia, one is dead and one is alive so to me makes sense ok why to one he talks about coming and to the other is no mention.

Christ also mentions the crown of life to Smyrna and a crown to Philadelphia. I find it is the same crown the crown of life. Reason being James says, Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

So I find that the crown would be the crown of life since Christ says to Philadelphia, in Rev 3:10-11, Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. 11Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

Anyway getting back to every church save Smyrna their is a message he is coming. To which he says to Philadelphia, Behold I come quickly. Then to Laodicea instead of Christ saying I am coming he says I stand at the door and knock. So after saying he is coming the language switches and is now one of I am here.

The majority of teaching on this is Christ is on the outside looking in and knocking to get their attention. I find that can't be so because it does not fit. Christ clearly says over and over he is coming so why drop that message suddenly and change it up all together.

As well Christ when he told John to write the things he sees. Christ lets it be known he walks amongst the candlesticks. He is present in the churches. As well as we know that where two or more ae gathered there he is in the midst. So I can't buy the message he is on the outside looking in since he is the author of the church and he has already said he is in the midst of the church.

So to me this is where he comes down because again the language is I am here. Then in chapter four says come up hither. Which then chapter 5 makes a big deal how Christ alone is worthy to open the seals. Which seal one introduces the anti-christ and is the start of the tribulation. So I find Rev lays it all out and does so chronologically.

I find that our rapture is verse 20 to verse one of chapter 4.

Matthew 24 and 25 is not for us or the church it is about the 2nd coming and we are not raptured at the 2nd coming so I find that the 10 virgins is not the church but again a expounding by Christ in how I laid out concerning the message Christ had told the Jews during his ministry and also Ezekiel 34.
Click to expand...
I guess you do not know that the rapture is the gathering of the bride by the groom.
I guess you just need to believe those indirect verses of the 7 churches

Nevermind anything concerning the bride/ groom dynamics.

Just pile those in with sheep/ goats.

Makes no sense whatsoever.
 
Absolutely said:
In mat 24 Jesus shifts the timeframe to " before the flood

Noah is used as a preflood gathering

Them immediately Jesus places the one Taken/ left in that dame timeframe.

But then without hesitation he goes into the 10 virgins.

All those dynamics Jesus places " before the flood"

They are all pretrib rapture dynamics.

All solid bible
Click to expand...

Christ uses Noah and he also uses Lot. Peter expounds upon it in II Peter 2 . He says Noah was saved, Lot was delivered. When we look in the Greek to define those two. Saved means to watch out over and to guard while going through. Delivered means to remove completely out of harm or dangers way.

We can't just take Matthew alone we have to use all the synoptic gospels to properly decipher. So while he mentions Noah in Matthew he mentions Lot and Noah in Luke.

So we have just that in light of both. Lot is delivered removed from danger. Same for the church. Noah who went through God's wrath was protected from it. Which it is the same look at the 144k as well as the two witnesses until God lets them be killed.

So anyway is a going through and they are protected from God's wrath as well as their is a removal of us the church which would be Lot. However, II Peter just expounds how there is a difference. Between save and delivered and that is just what happens a saving and a delivering when it comes to the tribulation. One is removed prior and one is kept through. Noah and Lot.
 
Absolutely said:
I guess you do not know that the rapture is the gathering of the bride by the groom.
I guess you just need to believe those indirect verses of the 7 churches

Nevermind anything concerning the bride/ groom dynamics.

Just pile those in with sheep/ goats.

Makes no sense whatsoever.
Click to expand...

The church is the bride is it not? So be it I use the word bride or church am I not speaking to both?
 
stilllearning said:
Christ uses Noah and he also uses Lot. Peter expounds upon it in II Peter 2 . He says Noah was saved, Lot was delivered. When we look in the Greek to define those two. Saved means to watch out over and to guard while going through. Delivered means to remove completely out of harm or dangers way.

We can't just take Matthew alone we have to use all the synoptic gospels to properly decipher. So while he mentions Noah in Matthew he mentions Lot and Noah in Luke.

So we have just that in light of both. Lot is delivered removed from danger. Same for the church. Noah who went through God's wrath was protected from it. Which it is the same look at the 144k as well as the two witnesses until God lets them be killed.

So anyway is a going through and they are protected from God's wrath as well as their is a removal of us the church which would be Lot. However, II Peter just expounds how there is a difference. Between save and delivered and that is just what happens a saving and a delivering when it comes to the tribulation. One is removed prior and one is kept through. Noah and Lot.
Click to expand...
Jesus framed noah preflood.

Nothing can change the words of Jesus.

But neyond that the ark is a type of heaven and noah went up ovrr a mile into the sky.
Noah RETURNED TO EARTH pst flood which would be postrib.

No clevrness can change those facts
 
stilllearning said:
Christ uses Noah and he also uses Lot. Peter expounds upon it in II Peter 2 . He says Noah was saved, Lot was delivered. When we look in the Greek to define those two. Saved means to watch out over and to guard while going through. Delivered means to remove completely out of harm or dangers way.

We can't just take Matthew alone we have to use all the synoptic gospels to properly decipher. So while he mentions Noah in Matthew he mentions Lot and Noah in Luke.

So we have just that in light of both. Lot is delivered removed from danger. Same for the church. Noah who went through God's wrath was protected from it. Which it is the same look at the 144k as well as the two witnesses until God lets them be killed.

So anyway is a going through and they are protected from God's wrath as well as their is a removal of us the church which would be Lot. However, II Peter just expounds how there is a difference. Between save and delivered and that is just what happens a saving and a delivering when it comes to the tribulation. One is removed prior and one is kept through. Noah and Lot.
Click to expand...
That is not at all what is going on
You can not change that both are gathered prejudgement..

Did noah return from over a mile in the sky post flood?
 
Absolutely said:
Jesus framed noah preflood.

Nothing can change the words of Jesus.

But neyond that the ark is a type of heaven and noah went up ovrr a mile into the sky.
Noah RETURNED TO EARTH pst flood which would be postrib.

No clevrness can change those facts
Click to expand...


We disagree that is cool. I have nothing more to add if ya do bro please by all means take the last word.
 
stilllearning said:
Christ uses Noah and he also uses Lot. Peter expounds upon it in II Peter 2 . He says Noah was saved, Lot was delivered. When we look in the Greek to define those two. Saved means to watch out over and to guard while going through. Delivered means to remove completely out of harm or dangers way.

We can't just take Matthew alone we have to use all the synoptic gospels to properly decipher. So while he mentions Noah in Matthew he mentions Lot and Noah in Luke.

So we have just that in light of both. Lot is delivered removed from danger. Same for the church. Noah who went through God's wrath was protected from it. Which it is the same look at the 144k as well as the two witnesses until God lets them be killed.

So anyway is a going through and they are protected from God's wrath as well as their is a removal of us the church which would be Lot. However, II Peter just expounds how there is a difference. Between save and delivered and that is just what happens a saving and a delivering when it comes to the tribulation. One is removed prior and one is kept through. Noah and Lot.
Click to expand...
Before the flood.
Then immediately Jesus Uses one taken/left example in that same time frame as before the flood.

Then immediately Jesus says watch and be ready

Solid pretrib rapture dynamics.
 
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