The Falling Away - pre-trib rapture or ???

[TheDivineWatermark]

Given the context of the chapter, it appears the day of the Lord is after the tribulation, at the return of Christ when He gathers His elect, or shortly.

I'm not denying that "the day of the Lord" ALSO INVOLVES AND INCLUDES His Second Coming to the earth (Matt24:29-31 / Rev19)... it also involves and includes the ENTIRE earthly MK age (1000 yrs). What I'm saying is that "the day of the Lord" doesn't [initially] "ARRIVE" at the point of His Second Coming to the earth...

...because Paul says in 1Th5:1-3 that its ARRIVAL is "exactly like" the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" that COMES UPON a woman...
...and Jesus spoke of those very things ("the beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]") which will precede and LEAD UP TO His Second Coming to the earth
(...and THOSE are EQUIVALENT to the "SEALS" of Rev6... which are A PART OF what 1:1 / 1:19c / 4:1 is saying are "things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]," i.e. IN the "7 yr" period that immediately precedes and LEADS UP TO His Second Coming to the earth / "RETURN" to the earth).


The VERY LENGTHY (earthly-located) time period known as "the day of the Lord" (which INCLUDES *all three* ASPECTS I just mentioned above) consists of: "a period of time of JUDGMENTs unfolding followed by a period of time of BLESSINGs unfolding" (<--ALL THAT="the DOTL" / and its related phrase "IN THAT DAY"!) Its "ARRIVAL" is the "FIRST SEAL" at the START of the "7 yr" period (not at its ENDING / Christ's "RETURN" to the earth Rev19).








[as I've mentioned in past posts, to go along with that ^ ] Wherever the phrases "the day of the Lord" and "IN THAT DAY" are used in close proximity / in same CONTEXTs, they are referring to THE SAME TIME PERIOD (and this is also the case in 2Th 1 & 2--BOTH CHPTS--where these two RELATED PHRASES are used, and refer to the SAME [future] TIME PERIOD)--Paul, in these two chpts, is contrasting the TWO DISTINCT "beliefs" ppl WILL BE coming to (FOLLOWING "our Rapture" event) when they are IN the Trib yrs...

 

[DavidTree]

I am not cliche centered.

I dont go spinning off into one word interpretations.
7th
Last
Trumpet
Trump
Lahaye
Darby
After
Trib/wrath
(All some " smoking gun" postribs use to stay away from the actual pretrib rapture verses)


I am bride/groom/heaven centred and thankful i am able to read and enjoy Gods word and defend against all the false doctrine the Word of God exposes.

Who separates tribulation from His wrath?

God does in His word -
These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.” John 16:33

And when they had preached the gospel to that city and made many disciples, they returned to Lystra, Iconium, and Antioch, strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith, and saying,
“We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God. Acts 14: 21-22

and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

Do not add (or take away) from God's words less he rebuke you and you be found a liar - Proverbs 30: 5-6

You do not want to change Scripture - very bad and comes from pride.

 

[Runningman]

May be the way I am reading this so may be all on me but not sure what you are saying. By pre the death of Christ are we talking sin? As in we needed the death of Christ to pay that penalty? So the the wrath that is associated with sin and the penalty of death we were under but now that penalty no longer applies because Christ has paid our price and we believers are now saved from that?

So as to the second part the way I read it you are saying the tribulation is meant for saved and unsaved alike so it can't be wrath since we have been saved from that so it has to be purely tribulation since meant for saved and unsaved?

Like I said is more than likely just the way I am reading it but wanna make sure I am not reading as it is coming across.

Yes that sounds about right.

 

[stilllearning]

Yes that sounds about right.

Ok. It is all the tribulation to you so no wrath ok I have you correctly read then. So the seals, the trumpets and etc are tribulation again period. Sorry I am being laborious I just wanna make sure that you are full saying everything in Rev is tribulation save for after seal six then seal 7 is the wrath? Or seal six opens and that is the start of the wrath so everything that follows is the wrath so would make the trumpets and etc wrath?

 

[Runningman]

Ok. It is all the tribulation to you so no wrath ok I have you correctly read then. So the seals, the trumpets and etc are tribulation again period. Sorry I am being laborious I just wanna make sure that you are full saying everything in Rev is tribulation save for after seal six then seal 7 is the wrath? Or seal six opens and that is the start of the wrath so everything that follows is the wrath so would make the trumpets and etc wrath?

Everything after the 6th seal (Revelation 6:12-17) is God's wrath as far as I can tell.

Revelation 6:16-17
16And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

 

[stilllearning]

Everything after the 6th seal (Revelation 6:12-17) is God's wrath as far as I can tell.

Revelation 6:16-17
16And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Ok thanks much appreciated just wanted to make sure I fully understood.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Ok thanks much appreciated just wanted to make sure I fully understood.

IIRC, Runningman believes "the 6th Seal" is the END of the Trib (aka Christ's Second Coming)

 

[ewq1938]

The moon will turn as blood though. It will be red. The moon doesn't turn blue, purple or black during a lunar eclipse.

It's not a lunar eclipse. All suns will go dark meaning there will be no light to cause a visible lunar eclipse anywhere in the universe. There's too much scripture supporting this. A moon the color of blood can also be black.

 

[ewq1938]

The moon will turn as blood though. It will be red. The moon doesn't turn blue, purple or black during a lunar eclipse.

Joel 2:31
31The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.

Acts 2:19-20
19And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:20The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

Revelation 6:12
12And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

A lunar eclipse looks like blood. This is what the Bible is describing:

View attachment 231756

That picture is also fake. It's been edited according to http://imageedited.com/

 

[ewq1938]

Matthew 24:29 "the moon will not give her light" I believe is referring to the blood moon.

How? If it isn't giving it's light how exactly are you supposed to see red light coming from moon? Not giving light means dark/black not the opposite of giving light.

 

[Runningman]

It's not a lunar eclipse. All suns will go dark meaning there will be no light to cause a visible lunar eclipse anywhere in the universe. There's too much scripture supporting this. A moon the color of blood can also be black.

The Sun is the name of Earth's star and it isn't supported by scripture that all other known stars will stop giving light. It just says "the sun will turn black" without identifying why the Sun turned black. It's trying to say the Sun will not shine brightly.

I am not inclined to believe that the Sun stops giving it's light since the verses I quoted above don't say the Sun stops shining. The Sun can continue shining, the moon can turn dark red in a solar eclipse without causing any scriptural problems.

So, I do think the kind of eclipse that will happen is actually a solar eclipse and not a lunar eclipse. So thank you for helping me see that. There are no scriptural problems with this unpacking of Matthew 24:29, in my opinion.

 

[Runningman]

That picture is also fake. It's been edited according to http://imageedited.com/

Here's the source of that photograph if you are interested:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_2019_lunar_eclipse

It's a picture of a lunar eclipse from January 2019, taken from Oria, Italy at 5:43 UTC, at the end of totality

 

[ewq1938]

Here's the source of that photograph if you are interested:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_2019_lunar_eclipse

It's a picture of a lunar eclipse from January 2019, taken from Oria, Italy at 5:43 UTC, at the end of totality

It's been edited. "Pixels only match software editors "


When a lunar eclipse happens, no light is shining on moon therefore it will appear black. Only the sun BEHIND the moon will show any light and that will look reddish.

 

[Clayman]

How? If it isn't giving it's light how exactly are you supposed to see red light coming from moon? Not giving light means dark/black not the opposite of giving light.

Ive seen the moon in a total lunar eclipse and its blood red to the naked eye, and the darkness on earth is eerie.

If the sun goes dark, by some unknown or supernatural means during the tribulation like the 3 hours of darkness at the death of Christ, there could be another source of Light and it could provide a blood red moon!
Jesus humbled Himself at His first coming and came born a babe in a manger, at His second advent He will come in Glory, I think those on earth will literally see the sky recede like a scroll, and they will be able to see into heaven.
There the Lord in His Glory will shine and He will be truly seen as the true light of the world, when people see Him coming in clouds they will also see a glorious light coming to earth.

 

[ewq1938]

Ive seen the moon in a total lunar eclipse and its blood red to the naked eye, and the darkness on earth is eerie.

I have seen one also but the moon is completely black, and gives no light at all. Only the sun behind it shows some light around the edge of moon. But when Christ returns there will be no light from any sun or stars so a lunar eclipse would be impossible to see anyways.

 

[ewq1938]

I can't seem to find any pics that aren't edited by software but a real lunar eclipse looks like this:

 

[Clayman]

When I get home ill look for a photo, If I didn't take one, there will still be some around, the whole moon went red not just the outsides, this was from New Zealand, 4 months ago maybe, my understanding is its got to be a lunar eclipse in a certain phase so it is rather a rare sight.

 

[Clayman]

Those photos look like a solar eclipse, not a lunar eclipse?

 

[ewq1938]

Those photos look like a solar eclipse, not a lunar eclipse?

Yes I mixed that up but still, scripture says moon will not give any shining and a lunar eclipse is moon giving some shining from light from Earth's atmosphere. That doesn't match what scripture says either.


Mat_24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Mar_13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,

Lunar eclipse


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


A totally eclipsed Moon is sometimes called a blood moon for its reddish color, which is caused by Earth completely blocking direct sunlight from reaching the Moon. The only light reflected from the lunar surface has been refracted by Earth's atmosphere. This light appears reddish for the same reason that a sunset or sunrise does: the Rayleigh scattering of bluer light.



As anyone can see, a lunar eclipse is moon giving reflected light and does not match the scriptures.

 

[Absolutely]

IIRC, Runningman believes "the 6th Seal" is the END of the Trib (aka Christ's Second Coming)

....and David Tree?

All i see doctrinally from him is "overzealous anti pretrib rapture"

It is useless to ask him what he believes. He will not answer.