The Falling Away - pre-trib rapture or ???

[stilllearning]

The 5th Seal is not the wrath of the Lamb and you committed a serious sin which the Lord said for you not to do.

The 6th Seal is the wrath of the Lamb = 6:17 "For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

The 6th seal is when the kings of the earth and others recognize it as so. Revelation 6:15-16 says, And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

 

[ewq1938]

You're mistaken if you believe "the day of the Lord" is referring to a singular "MOMENT" or even merely "a singular 24-hr day". It's not.

The day of Christ is a literal day. You're mistaken if you believe it is longer and you are mistaken that "the day Lord" appears in that verse at all.

You were mistaken twice.

 

[SaltwaterGirl]

Was the NT written in English?

Scripture please.

 

[ewq1938]

Scripture please.

First I need you to understand what language the NT was written in before I show you.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

@ewq1938 ... in context of the convo, I had been referring to the verse I had put here:

[QUOTE="TheDivineWatermark, post: 4668429, member: 273334"] ... and in the same CONTEXT where vv.1-3 is saying how "the DOTL" will "ARRIVE" exactly like the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" that COMES UPON a woman... the SAME THING which Jesus spoke of in His Olivet Discourse which is what "kicks off" a TIME PERIOD (IOW, it does not ARRIVE at the moment of His Second Coming to the earth Matt24:29-31 refers to [parallel Rev19], NO... MUCH will transpire BETWEEN those two points in time... i.e. MANY MORE "birth PANGS [PLURAL]" must follow on from that INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]"[/QUOTE]


...and that is 1Th5:1-3, see. And yes, the phrase "the day of the Lord" is indeed used here.

 

[stilllearning]

No, it clearly is not. have to WAIT for wrath to happen so not found in that seal. The wrath is found described in 6th seal which is a description of second coming told from perspective of unsaved. That matches the wrath of God being first seen in action in Rev 11 at the 7th trump.

The wrath starts with seal one. As I explained earlier look at Ezekiel 14 and the fourscore judgments which are clearly seals 2-4 and also how God said in Ezekiel it is his fury or do you not find fury and wrath the same thing? As well look at the Psalms I posted and how they fulfill just that purpose to cleanse the earth of the wicked and how it denotes it is the wrath of the son.

 

[DavidTree]

The 6th seal is when the kings of the earth and others recognize it as so. Revelation 6:15-16 says, And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

the 6th Seal is the wrath of the Lamb - not the previous 5 Seals

We are not appointed to God's wrath - adjust your understanding to what God said - clear your mind from what HE did not say.

Then you will increase in learning

 

[ewq1938]

@ewq1938 ... in context of the convo, I had been referring to the verse I had put here:

[QUOTE="TheDivineWatermark, post: 4668429, member: 273334"] ... and in the same CONTEXT where vv.1-3 is saying how "the DOTL" will "ARRIVE" exactly like the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" that COMES UPON a woman... the SAME THING which Jesus spoke of in His Olivet Discourse which is what "kicks off" a TIME PERIOD (IOW, it does not ARRIVE at the moment of His Second Coming to the earth Matt24:29-31 refers to [parallel Rev19], NO... MUCH will transpire BETWEEN those two points in time... i.e. MANY MORE "birth PANGS [PLURAL]" must follow on from that INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]"

...and that is 1Th5:1-3, see. And yes, the phrase "the day of the Lord" is indeed used here.[/QUOTE]

And that is clearly a sudden moment not a long time:

1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

That's clearly the second coming at the 7th trump with the wrath and plagues and vials and Armageddon war....all done in a single day.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

@ewq1938 ... the context of the convo I was referring to the following text of Scripture (1Th5:1-3 in particular)...

... and this is in the CONTEXT of where both vv.6 and 10 are using the SAME GRK WORDS ("watch" and "sleep" [...note, a DISTINCT "sleep" word from the one used in chpt 4:13,14,15])... so same "US / WE" in verse 10 as is in v.9 ^ .
... and in the same CONTEXT where vv.1-3 is saying how "the DOTL" will "ARRIVE" exactly like the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" that COMES UPON a woman... the SAME THING which Jesus spoke of in His Olivet Discourse which is what "kicks off" a TIME PERIOD (IOW, it does not ARRIVE at the moment of His Second Coming to the earth Matt24:29-31 refers to [parallel Rev19], NO... MUCH will transpire BETWEEN those two points in time... i.e. MANY MORE "birth PANGS [PLURAL]" must follow on from that INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]"

... where indeed the phrase "the day of the Lord" IS used

 

[ewq1938]

The wrath starts with seal one.

No, it doesn't. Seal one is about the Antichrist. Christ is shown in seal 6.

 

[ewq1938]

@ewq1938 ... the context of the convo I was referring to the following text of Scripture (1Th5:1-3 in particular)...


... where indeed the phrase "the day of the Lord" IS used

I was referring to this verse:

2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

You have claimed for years this verse says "the day of Lord" when it does not.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

And that is clearly a sudden moment not a long time:
1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
That's clearly the second coming at the 7th trump with the wrath and plagues and vials and Armageddon war....all done in a single day.

No... the word "destruction" HERE in this text ^ is NOT talking about the SAME kind of word as in Lk17:27,29 ("DESTROYED [G622] them all"). NO.

INSTEAD, it refers to "RUINATION," just like is translated "RUIN" in 1Tim6:9 (G3639), which is not speaking of what occurs "instantly" so to speak.





The TIME PERIOD will indeed COME UPON them SUDDENLY ("exactly like" the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" that COMES UPON a woman... There's no escaping it once it ARRIVES... one MUST GO THROUGH IT!! [or perhaps even experience death within / during it ])

 

[stilllearning]

the 6th Seal is the wrath of the Lamb - not the previous 5 Seals

We are not appointed to God's wrath - adjust your understanding to what God said - clear your mind from what HE did not say.

Then you will increase in learning

The sixth seal is when they recognize. When they recognize does not mean when it happens. Seal one is when it starts it is the wrath of the Lamb as previously noted why chapter 5 makes a big deal why Christ alone is worthy.

 

[DavidTree]

The sixth seal is when they recognize. When they recognize does not mean when it happens. Seal one is when it starts it is the wrath of the Lamb as previously noted why chapter 5 makes a big deal why Christ alone is worthy.

NOPE - the Sixth Seal is the wrath of the Lamb - only the Sixth, not the previous Five

It is important for you to know this - Revelation 22: 18-19

For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

 

[DavidTree]

The sixth seal is when they recognize. When they recognize does not mean when it happens. Seal one is when it starts it is the wrath of the Lamb as previously noted why chapter 5 makes a big deal why Christ alone is worthy.

Revelation never says the wrath of the Lamb is when He opens the Seals - this is very bad - adding to God's words.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Revelation never says the wrath of the Lamb is when He opens the Seals - this is very bad - adding to God's words.

Presently, Jesus is "SITTING" at the right hand of the Father. (SEATED)



But when He will "STAND to JUDGE," that's a different story! (a CHANGE of scene!! CONTEXT surrounding Rev5:6 "STANDING")



Isaiah 3:13 - https://biblehub.com/text/isaiah/3-13.htm

Berean Study Bible
The LORD arises to contend; He stands to judge the people.

King James Bible
The LORD standeth up to plead, and standeth to judge the people.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
The LORD rises to argue the case and stands to judge the people.

International Standard Version
The LORD is taking his place to argue his case; he's standing up to judge the people.

American Standard Version
Jehovah standeth up to contend, and standeth to judge the peoples.

Darby Bible Translation
Jehovah setteth himself to plead, and standeth to judge the peoples.

Literal Standard Version
YHWH has stood up to plead, "" And He is standing to judge the peoples.

Young's Literal Translation
Jehovah hath stood up to plead, And He is standing to judge the peoples.

Smith's Literal Translation
Jehovah stood up to contend and he stood to judge the peoples.






[note also the description in 4:3 "jasper and sardine stone"... the FIRST and LAST stones of the "Breastpiece / Breastplate of Judgment"--This is a COURTROOM SCENE, iow...]

 

[stilllearning]

No, it doesn't. Seal one is about the Antichrist. Christ is shown in seal 6.

Exactly now read 2 Thess 2:3 which says, Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

That day the day of the Lord starts after he has been revealed which is seal one.

Verse 6 in Thess as well says, And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

As well as verses 7-8 say, For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming

This is exactly when this comes about in seal one when he is revealed.

Christ kicks it off again why chapter 5 of Rev makes the big deal it does and shows how he and he alone is worthy.

This coming kingdom of Satan's is nothing new. The bible plainly points out when he Satan first tried it and God restrained.

Genesis 11 the Tower of Babel was the first attempt. Genesis 11:4-8 says, And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth. 5And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded. 6And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. 7Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. 8So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Exactly now read 2 Thess 2:3 which says, Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

That day the day of the Lord starts after he has been revealed which is seal one.

Agreed!




That's exactly when it starts (re: "the DOTL")... SEAL #1! Right on!

 

[stilllearning]

NOPE - the Sixth Seal is the wrath of the Lamb - only the Sixth, not the previous Five

It is important for you to know this - Revelation 22: 18-19

For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

I am not adding to I have posted scripture to which you have failed to show me any error in interpretation. If I do be then show me accordingly. If I be in error should you not take what i have given in verse and point out how I am in error instead of declaring by your decree how I am adding. Argue the scripture only in them will error be found if I do not have a understanding.

I have laid out clearly how I have read them and seen them yet you chose not to engage the scriptures given?

 

[DavidTree]

Presently, Jesus is "SITTING" at the right hand of the Father. (SEATED)



But when He will "STAND to JUDGE," that's a different story! (a CHANGE of scene!! CONTEXT surrounding Rev5:6 "STANDING")



Isaiah 3:13 - https://biblehub.com/text/isaiah/3-13.htm

Berean Study Bible
The LORD arises to contend; He stands to judge the people.

King James Bible
The LORD standeth up to plead, and standeth to judge the people.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
The LORD rises to argue the case and stands to judge the people.

International Standard Version
The LORD is taking his place to argue his case; he's standing up to judge the people.

American Standard Version
Jehovah standeth up to contend, and standeth to judge the peoples.

Darby Bible Translation
Jehovah setteth himself to plead, and standeth to judge the peoples.

Literal Standard Version
YHWH has stood up to plead, "" And He is standing to judge the peoples.

Young's Literal Translation
Jehovah hath stood up to plead, And He is standing to judge the peoples.

Smith's Literal Translation
Jehovah stood up to contend and he stood to judge the peoples.

Amen - but neither you nor i nor anyone dictates to the Lord, when He stands, for how long He stands, and what He does when He stands.

You must always allow Scripture to define Scripture. When we add to or take away from God's words we mess things up.

In order to understand the "catching up" of the Saints we must submit to God and to His words as He placed them before us.

The LORD placed many things before the last thing which is the rapture.

He placed these things before the rapture - Daniel ch 7 , Matthew 24 , 1 Thess ch4 , 2Thess ch2 , 1 John 2:18 , Revelation 6:9-11
and Revelation 20: 4-6