Why do people not believe Jesus when he said "Greater works shall he [that believes] do?"

[KelbyofGod]

John 14:12 KJV says:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father."​

Why, seeing we have this statement from Jesus (and both the old and new testaments), and all the teachings that have come after, do the people who claim to follow Jesus seem to disregard this verse as if it is untrue?

Is it not true that we have more promises and teachings than any before us?

To me, it seems so many are not only NOT trying to do anything greater than what Jesus did, they also make it a point NOT TO DO anything greater than what Paul did, or Peter did, or Stephen did, or Isaiah did, or David did, or Jonah did, or... [Just keep lowering the bar until you reach someone in the bible you think that you MIGHT have a hope of outperforming]. And some go so far as to hinder those who might be trying. Which I guess kind of answers my question... sigh... I'll post the verse:

Matthew 23:13 KJV

"But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in."​

So I still ask the question, Who do you believe we can do things greater than? Where do you set YOUR bar? (No, you don't have to post your answer, but I would like you to deeply consider your answer, because Jesus kinda suggested the answer should be "Jesus")

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

​

 

[Deuteronomy]

Hello @KelbyofGod, I think that it's easy enough to see the problem that people have with believing that we will do greater miracles than Jesus did, as soon as they consider what He did, that is (the Lord Jesus healed the sick, caused the mute to speak, the deaf to hear, the lame to walk, the blind to see (even to those who were born blind), and He raised the dead to life). What "greater" works* (in the sense of power/awe/wonder) could any of us possibly hope to do beyond those things

*(Hey, maybe we could speak a new universe into existence ex nihilo .Oh, wait a minute, the Lord Jesus has already done that too, hasn't He .. e.g. John 1:1-3; Hebrews 11:3)

The Greek is not quite as helpful as it often is in this case (because, μέγας, which we translate as "greater" in John 14:12, has many different meanings). Still, one of the principle meanings of μέγας is that things are "greater" in the sense of ~quantity or number~ of miracles, not that are somehow greater in quality/wonder/awesomeness/power. As the Amplified Bible tells us,

John 14​

12 I assure you and most solemnly say to you, anyone who believes in Me [as Savior] will also do the things that I do; and he will do even greater things than these [in extent and outreach], because I am going to the Father.​

If you want to see walking miracles, just take a look at your brothers and sisters in church next Sunday, because that's what they truly are, anyone/everyone, that is, who has already been born again/has already been given eternal life by God, any who have been persuaded to come to saving faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. This is one of those areas of the faith, witnessing/evangelism, where we have already performed a greater ~number~ of miracles than the Lord Jesus did personally/as a man .. cf Matthew 15:24 ~vs~ Acts 1:8.

God bless you!

~Deut

Romans 3​

9 We have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin;​

10 as it is written,​

THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;​

11 THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS,​

THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;​

12 ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS;​

THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD,​

THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE.​

​

 

[KelbyofGod]

Hello @KelbyofGod, I think that it's easy enough to see the problem that people have with believing that we will do greater miracles than Jesus did, as soon as they consider what He did, that is (the Lord Jesus healed the sick, caused the mute to speak, the deaf to hear, the lame to walk, the blind to see (even to those who were born blind), and He raised the dead to life). What "greater" works* (in the sense of power/awe/wonder) could any of us possibly hope to do beyond those things

*(Hey, maybe we could speak a new universe into existence ex nihilo .Oh, wait a minute, the Lord Jesus has already done that too, hasn't He .. e.g. John 1:1-3; Hebrews 11:3)

The Greek is not quite as helpful as it often is in this case (because, μέγας, which we translate as "greater" in John 14:12, has many different meanings). Still, one of the principle meanings of μέγας is that things are "greater" in the sense of ~quantity or number~ of miracles, not that are somehow greater in quality/wonder/awesomeness/power. As the Amplified Bible tells us,

John 14​

12 I assure you and most solemnly say to you, anyone who believes in Me [as Savior] will also do the things that I do; and he will do even greater things than these [in extent and outreach], because I am going to the Father.​

If you want to see walking miracles, just take a look at your brothers and sisters in church next Sunday, because that's what they truly are, anyone/everyone, that is, who has already been born again/has already been given eternal life by God, any who have been persuaded to come to saving faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. This is one of those areas of the faith, witnessing/evangelism, where we have already performed a greater ~number~ of miracles than the Lord Jesus did personally/as a man .. cf Matthew 15:24 ~vs~ Acts 1:8.

God bless you!

~Deut

Romans 3​

9 We have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin;​

10 as it is written,​

THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;​

11 THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS,​

THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;​

12 ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS;​

THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD,​

THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE.​

​

Thanks for the reply, Deuteronomy. There is friendliness in your answer and I hope to answer likewise.

I was rather "fed up" when I made that post because I've learned that God will talk, work, answer, heal, do miracles, etc. But most churches don't seem to have a clue as to how that stuff operates. However, I will tell you how it operates, if anyone is willing to hear it. "Hearing" in the sense of putting it into practice, not just wanting to listen then disbelieve and laugh. And... that happens to be Step #1 of 2 that I will share today.

1. When God says something that sounds fantastic, DON'T disbelieve and downplay it. Give him credit for meaning exactly what he said even if YOU cannot fathom it. It's fine if you don't immediately believe it; doubt it; struggle to believe it; fail to understand how it could be true; or even laugh... Those forms of not believing are not the same as DIS-believing. Disbelief is a REFUSAL to believe. It's when you immediately stomp your feet in the sand and say "That's it! I've had enough of this nonsense and refuse to hear any more!" That kind of disbelief (unbelief) will get you into trouble quickly.
2. If you can't seem to believe, or you cannot see HOW it could be,... That just means it's time to ASK.

That's all I can share right now as I need to get some sleep after working a 3rd shift. Thanks again for your post.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[ResidentAlien]

It depends on what you mean by "greater."

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

John 14:12 KJV says:
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father."
Why, seeing we have this statement from Jesus (and both the old and new testaments), and all the teachings that have come after, do the people who claim to follow Jesus seem to disregard this verse as if it is untrue?

Precious friend:

(1) Some claim "they follow Jesus" and then judge others with "IF you love Me KEEP My Commandments," but they themSELVES have not yet obeyed: "Sell everything, obey The Law, heal the sick, cast out demons, raise the dead, etc. etc. etc. Why is that? And, Also, didn't Jesus say "NOT to judge others"?

a) Interesting note: "speaking in tongues" can be​

Counterfeited, but so far, NONE of the above, eh?​

​

b) Another thing is changing What God Plainly Said Into "well, we​

MUST BE WILLING TO" SELL EVERYTHING. So, what's up with that?​

(2) So, IF they "follow Jesus, and believe" your verse, but are frustrated and disheartened when they pray, and want to obey it, but, God Does NOT Answer
their prayer {ask ANYTHING, and RECEIVE!}, could it be possible That "God Has Rendered" THESE "greater works" IMPOSSIBLE, Today Under HIS PURE GRACE?

Some of us believe so, because HE Actually Has TWO Different Programs,
and we MIX them UP, causing THOROUGH Confusion? God's 3 Answers:

A) God's Approval/TWO Different Gospels
B) Distinctions In God's Two Different Programs: Prophecy vs Mystery!

C) GRACE Word for infirmities

----------------------------------------
(2 Timothy 2:15; Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:3-9; Ephesians 3:9 =
Grace/Mystery fellowship {Romans – Philemon}, today?)

Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified!
God’s Simple Will!

 

[wattie]

Greater works.... referering to the incredible spread of christianity later I would say.

Cant do greater miracles than Christ or greater wonders but the great expansion of christianity hadn't fully developed

 

[jb]

Why do people not believe Jesus when he said "Greater works shall he [that believes] do?"

Very simply, because of "UNBELIEF" (through an evil heart of unbelief).

Psalm 78v41: "Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel." (with Heb chapters 3 & 4, esp. 3v12,13,19)

The early Church "BELIEVED" that they would do the same works as the Lord Jesus, just as He said they would if they "BELIEVED," and were "OBEDIENT." Acts 2v40-47 (esp. v43), 5v1-16 (esp. 15), 9v36-43, Rom 15v18-21, 2Cor 12v12 etc...

The last century certainly saw the fulfilment of this Scripture through such ministries as Smith Wigglesworth...

And indeed, John 14v12-14 will have further fulfilment through the Two Witnesses (and other Holy Spirit empowered Christians) during the Great Tribulation! Rev 11v3-6, Dan 11v32,33.

 

[KelbyofGod]

Very simply, because of "UNBELIEF" (through an evil heart of unbelief).

Psalm 78v41: "Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel." (with Heb chapters 3 & 4, esp. 3v12,13,19)

The early Church "BELIEVED" that they would do the same works as the Lord Jesus, just as He said they would if they "BELIEVED," and were "OBEDIENT." Acts 2v40-47 (esp. v43), 5v1-16 (esp. 15), 9v36-43, Rom 15v18-21, 2Cor 12v12 etc...

The last century certainly saw the fulfilment of this Scripture through such ministries as Smith Wigglesworth...

And indeed, John 14v12-14 will have further fulfilment through the Two Witnesses (and other Holy Spirit empowered Christians) during the Great Tribulation! Rev 11v3-6, Dan 11v32,33.

I'll comment on your post first because so far you seem to be the only one who actually believes Jesus meant what he said.

It especially pleases me that you mention the two witnesses. Smith Wigglesworth and some others have done some great things but I do want to ask... Do you know of anything Smith did that could be considered greater than the works Jesus did? (if you know of anything right off).

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[KelbyofGod]

(2) So, IF they "follow Jesus, and believe" your verse, but are frustrated and disheartened when they pray, and want to obey it, but, God Does NOT Answer their prayer {ask ANYTHING, and RECEIVE!}, could it be possible That "God Has Rendered" THESE "greater works" IMPOSSIBLE, Today Under HIS PURE GRACE?

I didn't quite grasp the rest of what you wrote, but the quoted question is easy enough to answer.

Answer= Nope, ALL things are still possible in Christ Jesus. But people must learn HOW to get these things to function if they wish to see the results.

God showed me that learning how to get answers to prayer is a lot like learning how to whistle, or finding a 4-leaf clover in a field of clover. The rules for each are simple, but those rules must be done CORRECTLY and if the person gives up before achieving success, that person will likely think it is impossible (at least for him/herself). But if that person continues (endures, strives) until success, they might not be able to repeat it immediately, but they start to understand that it IS possible. (See Luke 18:1-8 and similar teachings by Jesus)

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[KelbyofGod]

Luke 18:1-8 KJV:

"And he spake a parable unto them to this end, that men ought always to pray, and not to faint; [2] Saying, There was in a city a judge, which feared not God, neither regarded man: [3] And there was a widow in that city; and she came unto him, saying, Avenge me of mine adversary. [4] And he would not for a while: but afterward he said within himself, Though I fear not God, nor regard man; [5] Yet because this widow troubleth me, I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me. [6] And the Lord said, Hear what the unjust judge saith. [7] And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them? [8] I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?"​

 

[SophieT]

Why do people not believe Jesus when he said "Greater works shall he [that believes] do?

what are the greater works?

 

[KelbyofGod]

What are the greater works?

Hi Sophie. In some ways THAT is the correct question. And based on our past conversations I'm going to guess you might not appreciate the wisdom of my answer as much as I appreciate the wisdom of your question.

My answer (at this point, to you) is that I'm not going to rob you of getting that answer straight from God. And here's why...

1. At this point I don't know whether you'd just disbelieve, disregard, mock and scorn if I answered you directly. And...
2. Anyone who wishes to do the greater works and know certainly that they ARE greater works will need to learn to hear from God anyway. You, having the Holy Ghost, are capable of accomplishing both... without me.

But on another note, I'm glad to see you're still around. I'd begun to wonder.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[ResidentAlien]

Smith Wigglesworth and some others have done some great things

Bill Johnson at Bethel Redding claims gold dust falls from the ceiling at their meetings; angel feathers and glory clouds also appear. This is probably greater than anything Wigglesworth did. Oh, and Todd Bentley kicked an elderly woman in the face because the Spirit told him to. Nowhere to go but up.

 

[Blik]

Being a Christian who lives by faith in Christ is not easy at all if you love the world. Christ asks we give up the burdens pf the world like working so hard for money for our lifestyle we want, or not fighting with our enemies but befriend them. What if our world asks that we go to war? We spend hours in the gym and our money for stylish clothes, jewelry, and cosmetics. The world is a time consuming, tremendous burden. Christ said my burdens are light. The world is temporary, God is eternity.

The Lord looks at what we do, not what we say. The parable of the two sons (Matt. 21:28-32) is about two brothers whose father tells them to go work in his vineyard. One tells his father that he will but doesn’t do it. The other tells his father that he won’t go but ends up working all day among the vines. Jesus then asks the question, “Which of the two did the will of his father?” The answer is clear: the one who actually worked, though initially refusing to do so.

 

[KelbyofGod]

Being a Christian who lives by faith in Christ is not easy at all if you love the world. Christ asks we give up the burdens pf the world like working so hard for money for our lifestyle we want, or not fighting with our enemies but befriend them. What if our world asks that we go to war? We spend hours in the gym and our money for stylish clothes, jewelry, and cosmetics. The world is a time consuming, tremendous burden. Christ said my burdens are light. The world is temporary, God is eternity.

The Lord looks at what we do, not what we say. The parable of the two sons (Matt. 21:28-32) is about two brothers whose father tells them to go work in his vineyard. One tells his father that he will but doesn’t do it. The other tells his father that he won’t go but ends up working all day among the vines. Jesus then asks the question, “Which of the two did the will of his father?” The answer is clear: the one who actually worked, though initially refusing to do so.

I really like your reply. This might sound unpleasant to some, but I think most of the "Christian" world falls under the description of the son that says but doesn't DO. Most go so far as to claim that anyone who actually DOES is relying on works. <---That statement deserves further consideration because there is a deceitful treachery in that whole "Works is bad" doctrine.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[Blik]

I really like your reply. This might sound unpleasant to some, but I think most of the "Christian" world falls under the description of the son that says but doesn't DO. Most go so far as to claim that anyone who actually DOES is relying on works. <---That statement deserves further consideration because there is a deceitful treachery in that whole "Works is bad" doctrine.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

There is much written to say that works don't count because we are saved by faith not works, but the Lord says: John 14:21 He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him.

 

[CherieR]

Hello @KelbyofGod , I don’t think it is necessary to seek to outperform the apostles. Just serve the Lord Jesus in all you do. If God desires to do a miracle through you or me, he can certainly do that.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

John 14:12 KJV says:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father."​

Why, seeing we have this statement from Jesus (and both the old and new testaments), and all the teachings that have come after, do the people who claim to follow Jesus seem to disregard this verse as if it is untrue?

Is it not true that we have more promises and teachings than any before us?

To me, it seems so many are not only NOT trying to do anything greater than what Jesus did, they also make it a point NOT TO DO anything greater than what Paul did, or Peter did, or Stephen did, or Isaiah did, or David did, or Jonah did, or... [Just keep lowering the bar until you reach someone in the bible you think that you MIGHT have a hope of outperforming]. And some go so far as to hinder those who might be trying. Which I guess kind of answers my question... sigh... I'll post the verse:

Matthew 23:13 KJV

"But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in."​

So I still ask the question, Who do you believe we can do things greater than? Where do you set YOUR bar? (No, you don't have to post your answer, but I would like you to deeply consider your answer, because Jesus kinda suggested the answer should be "Jesus")

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

​

everything in the kingdom operates by faith . So few people hear and share the thkngs in the gospel . When we try to skip the gospel of the kingdom were skipping over the word of God

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we need to become his disciples again as a church to see the things of faith

 

[jb]

I do want to ask... Do you know of anything Smith did that could be considered greater than the works Jesus did? (if you know of anything right off).

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

I think the term "greater works" can be taken in different ways and all hold true I think.

His ministry was "international" as he travelled and ministered in many countries, Our Lord's ministry (during His earthly lifetime) was restricted to Israel, so Smith Wigglesworth's I would reckon, was greater in the area it covered and numbers of people touched. It was recorded that the Lord raised 14 people from the dead through him, so, Our Lord during His earthly ministry raised 3, so I think another "greater" there.

However, I think really the most important meaning of the term "greater works" lies in the level of authority that it brings:

The two witnesses have as part of their end-time ministry (during the Great Tribulation) authority to judge and discipline the wicked "as often as they desire," this level of authority has not been in the Church either in the OT or NT before, it occurs at the end of this age because of the terrible evil dark days coming upon the earth, Israel and the Church. Matt 24v21,22, Rev 11v6

The Lord Jesus did His works as His Father directed Him, He did not act on His own will, whereas the two witnesses do act on their own will. John 5v19.

 

[SophieT]

Hello @KelbyofGod , I don’t think it is necessary to seek to outperform the apostles. Just serve the Lord Jesus in all you do. If God desires to do a miracle through you or me, he can certainly do that.

I think the op might have forgotten that it is God by His Spirit who performs what a human being cannot do

no one can do greater works than Christ...not one of us can provide salvation; the understanding of what Jesus said is not in actually outperforming Him

it is understood by most that Jesus meant quantity and not quality. another understanding is that He meant the gospel going into the whole world where He was in one area