Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

[Hone]

But see your prior post about the prodigal and then your statement that Christians who think they have to work to stay saved is in the Bible, isn't consistent.
Excerpted from your post #769
"isn't the inheritance given to all, isn't GOD's purpose to "save us all"
what the prodigal son proved was that we can,... live with our father,... then leave the safety of his domain,.. live our own lives, make some errors,... realise what we did wrong,... then go back home to our father knowing through experience that you will never leave him again.
the leaving part can also imply "we know better" while living in the home.

Christians who think they have work to do to stay saved are following what is written in the Bible......." [end]

We don't work to stay Saved either. That's also not in scripture. If we labored to stay saved, we wouldn't have what the Bible says we have, "ETERNAL Security".

Those who say future sins are counted against us when we're Holy Spirit indwelt Christians.

depends on your definition of works,.. if you think of it as laborious and hard work that can't be done, seemingly impossible then you won't be able to do it....
I think of it as showing the love that we are suppose have in us as Christians, and keeping the judgemental,sarcastic & patronising attitudes, ..(which we all know lies in each and everyone of us)...suppressed so we don't come across people we meet as arrogant and pretentious....
???...what Christians are you talking to....?....there is no such thing as future sins,....for Christians...the whole point of a Christian is to avoid sinning, because they have the faith of Christ and keep the commandments of GOD.

Can you say you are a Christian if you expect to sin?, knowing we are not perfect is one thing ...but to expect future sins defeats the purpose doesn't it.
If we don't labour to stay saved how are we to stay saved...we will continually fall into sin, and make up excuses to cover it over
how did you do with the quiz?
answers were provided.

 

[Icedaisey]

While some of the gentile can and will be cut off if they are unfaithful it is an individual cutting off not corporate. When we look at the text we see that.

When you want to see who Paul was speaking to we have to step back to

Rom 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles... {plural}

Rom 11:15 For if their being cast away {that is the Jews}

Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches were broken off {individual not corporate}

Rom 11:17...and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them {singular}

Rom 11:19 You will say then,...that I might be grafted in. {both singular}

Rom 11:20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off,... {plural}

Rom 11:20 ...and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. {singular}

Rom 11:21 ...He may not spare you either. {singular}

Rom 11:22 ... but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. {both singular}

Rom 11:22 Otherwise you also will be cut off. {singular}

Rom 11:24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree {singular}

The context shows that while Paul was speaking to Gentiles as a group. Within that group he was telling each one that although they had trusted in the God of the Jews through faith in Christ Jesus it was possible to be cut off by God for a personal lack of faith. In other words “Do not be haughty”. They could suffer the same fate as the Jews that disregarded faith in God.

Being cut off is an individual thing just as lack of faith is which leads to being cut off.

Romans 9 and 10 is Paul describing how so many Jews reject the Gospel. Romans 11 assures the people of Israel God has a plan.

Romans 11:11-21 KJV​

11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.​

12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?​

13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:​

14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.​

15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?​

16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.​

17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;​

18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.​

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.​

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:​

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.​

Israel was blind and cut off so that the Gentiles could come in. Matthew 21:43 Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.

depends on your definition of works,.. if you think of it as laborious and hard work that can't be done, seemingly impossible then you won't be able to do it....
I think of it as showing the love that we are suppose have in us as Christians, and keeping the judgemental,sarcastic & patronising attitudes, ..(which we all know lies in each and everyone of us)...suppressed so we don't come across people we meet as arrogant and pretentious....
???...what Christians are you talking to....?....there is no such thing as future sins,....for Christians...the whole point of a Christian is to avoid sinning, because they have the faith of Christ and keep the commandments of GOD.

Can you say you are a Christian if you expect to sin?, knowing we are not perfect is one thing ...but to expect future sins defeats the purpose doesn't it.
If we don't labour to stay saved how are we to stay saved...we will continually fall into sin, and make up excuses to cover it over
how did you do with the quiz?
answers were provided.

It doesn't depend on works definition of someone says Christians have to labor to retain their eternal security. It's false doctrine.

Faith without works is dead. That isn't saying we labor to retain our Salvation, that isn't saying if we don't do good things we're going to be stripped of our faith or Salvation.

It's saying good deeds are evidence of our Salvation. Not a mechanism that secures it for us.

With regard to your question about future sins, you'll have to address that to Resident Alien. His remarks in that regard (partial excerpt: If our past sins are forgiven, but we start accumulating unconfessed present and future sins, this is a clear indication we don't have much of a relationship with God. "If we continue to sin willingly, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins."—Hebrews) are what I addressed.

 

[Hone]

Romans 9 and 10 is Paul describing how so many Jews reject the Gospel. Romans 11 assures the people of Israel God has a plan.

Romans 11:11-21 KJV​

11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.​

12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?​

13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:​

14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.​

15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?​

16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.​

17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;​

18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.​

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.​

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:​

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.​

Israel was blind and cut off so that the Gentiles could come in. Matthew 21:43 Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.

It doesn't depend on works definition of someone says Christians have to labor to retain their eternal security. It's false doctrine.

Faith without works is dead. That isn't saying we labor to retain our Salvation, that isn't saying if we don't do good things we're going to be stripped of our faith or Salvation.

It's saying good deeds are evidence of our Salvation. Not a mechanism that secures it for us.

With regard to your question about future sins, you'll have to address that to Resident Alien. His remarks in that regard (partial excerpt: If our past sins are forgiven, but we start accumulating unconfessed present and future sins, this is a clear indication we don't have much of a relationship with God. "If we continue to sin willingly, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins."—Hebrews) are what I addressed.

I don't know what it means to you but "faith without works" means to me......
If I say I have faith,..... but don't suppress my urge to punch a face because they mocked me (because with the right amount of coercion we all crack). am I a Christian
If I say I have faith..... but am still condescending, or stubborn, am I a Christian?
no one said anything about "labouring to retain salvation"....the sentence is "If YOU think of WORK's as laborious"
What has Resident Allen got to with me?.....pls stay with me, address me when talking with me
don't confuse me for someone else, that's impolite...(if accidental,..simple mistake/...if done on purpose ..sin)
AS Christens do we have the right to tell people they are wrong?,,,(unless it's personal)
Do we have the right to tell people how to read the Bible.?
Are we suppose to impose our will?

 

[justbyfaith]

I don't know if this has been mentioned...

But John 5:24 is a verse that we can take hold of as a promise by faith.

See Hebrews 11:33, 2 Peter 1:3-4, 2 Corinthians 1:20, and Romans 4:20-22.

 

[Ogom]

Not a soul here has ever said Salvation is by force.
That is a claim conjured from a very dark imagination. And is wholly unscriptural. We were not all destined for Salvation. Universalism is a false teaching.

and that is probably fair and just (if we understood like God does -- not like humans) .... but because many believe in their own beliefs (Idols), not in seeking God with the whole heart -- teachings like this are not liked and confuse people.

 

[Icedaisey]

...
no one said anything about "labouring to retain salvation"....the sentence is "If YOU think of WORK's as laborious"

Incorrect. Not only that, there are believers who have said Christians need to repent of the new sins they'll tally. Paraphrasing their remarks, not an exact quote.

What has Resident Allen got to with me?.....pls stay with me, address me when talking with me
don't confuse me for someone else, that's impolite...(if accidental,..simple mistake/...if done on purpose ..sin)

You need to take your own advice. Pay attention! You commented to me while citing something Resident Alien actually said. It was to RA that you should have addressed your remarks.

 

[Ogom]

Precious friend, ok, I TRUSTED, as a little child, and "entered the kingdom,"? Or, did I?

Is it immediate, OR, is it at the end of my life, depending on a list of "Conditions"?

"as a man thinker so he is " if we put over - much importance when reading the Bible -- in what is in our minds and beliefs -- onto things written in the Bible that are not what is meant -- then we could be reading the Bible very wrong -- according to our own beliefs -- not according to the spirit (the true and /or truest meaning). and God is spirit. and people believe the Bible is -- from God. this is real simple math.

something like this: God (Spirit) -- Author of Bible (believed by Christians generally) = meaning of the Bible is according to the Author -- God /Spirit -- not according to Us.

meaning is not according to -- our hearts, minds, beliefs ("as a man thinketh so he is") always or of necessity (because our hearts and minds are not perfect so cannot declare the meaning, on anything spiritual -- unless we are seeking after spiritual things -- i.e. seeking truth, righteousness, honorableness, standards of right living and thinking and being -- though there are levels of understanding the Bible talks about -- so that we can -- even begin to understand.

we should not stay on milk though, or herbs even -- or in any kind of idol worship too much or too long (making our own selves and beliefs into idols we 'pray' to and hold out to others over and over as though to say -- worship this) -- because of believing in our own heart or mind -- our beliefs too much without seeking really, truly, honestly and continuing to seek over all possible errors in our thinking - - - - - - truth (Christ, "I am ___ ___, the truth, and ___ ___ ).

this is how to find God (Spirit) and the (correct) understandings of all things said or written or thought or known by God (Spirit).

from a different post #51

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

Precious friend, ok, I TRUSTED, as a little child, and "entered the kingdom,"? Or, did I?

Is it immediate, OR, is it at the end of my life, depending on a list of "Conditions"?

"as a man thinker so he is " if we put over - much importance when reading the Bible -- in what is in our minds and beliefs -- onto things written in the Bible that are not what is meant -- then we could be reading the Bible very wrong

Precious friend, then I must have "read the Bible right," and believed
IT, When God Told me, when I TRUSTED HIM, "as a little child":

Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, Which hath made us
meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and
HATH TRANSLATED us INTO THE KINGDOM Of HIS Dear SON:
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

It is IMMEDIATE! Praise HIS Precious Name! Amen?

 

[BillG]

Precious friend, then I must have "read the Bible right," and believed
IT, When God Told me, when I TRUSTED HIM, "as a little child":

Yes you were.

Just like me a the age of 9.

This was a result of watching the film Jesus of Nazareth.
I believed it to be true.
A childlike faith.
Did not fully understand what it meant but for me it was true.
So much so that every time it was on I would stop playing football which I loved and watch the film with football in my hands.

When he died I would cry, when he rose again I would cry. Then I would go and play football feeling very happy.

The whole film affected me from start to finish.

For me that was my spiritual marker and sealing from God.

I am not 53 and my walk has been hard and struggles very heavy.
Will not go into it.

The only thing I can say is that God has kept me through it all, even when I went astray he sought me out, even when I wandered away he had already prepared the place I knew I needed to go to.

Our Father is good, he keeps his promises he made towards us.

This is a man whose ancestry was muslim.

I am so thankful that he broke this for me any family.

Married to and amazing Christian wife, have 4 kids all are Christian.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

The only thing I can say is that God has kept me through it all,

Precious friend, thanks so much for sharing. I know it was IMMEDIATE for me,
because as I later found, studying Scripture, that at THE VERY MOMENT of my
child-like TRUST IN HIM, HE Gave me HIS PEACE That Surpasses all understanding
(Romans 5:1; Philippians 4:7), that I had NEVER known for the first 27 years of my
life. Now, 42 years later, through much turmoil, THAT PEACE Has Been The ONE
"Constant" Blessing From The WONDERFUL Saviour.

Be well, Precious friend.

See you in God’s Great GloryLand! ♫ 😇 ↑

 

[BillG]

Precious friend, thanks so much for sharing. I know it was IMMEDIATE for me,
because as I later found, studying Scripture, that at THE VERY MOMENT of my
child-like TRUST IN HIM, HE Gave me HIS PEACE That Surpasses all understanding
(Romans 5:1; Philippians 4:7), that I had NEVER known for the first 27 years of my
life. Now, 42 years later, through much turmoil, THAT PEACE Has Been The ONE
"Constant" Blessing From The WONDERFUL Saviour.

Be well, Precious friend.

See you in God’s Great GloryLand! ♫ 😇 ↑

See you as well.
If I'm allowed to bring my football with me then you will recognise me.

We all must remember that the focus of our faith is in Jesus and what he has done.
I

 

[Hone]

My brother's & sister's, if we say we are of Christ.....should we not act like we are....we should be helping one another understand and get closer to GOD.
If you feel like you HAVE to tell others how to: read the Bible,...see the chapters and verses as you,...understand the prophecy's the way you do... knowing that human nature will push some to retaliate, ...shouldn't WE ALL be trying to avoid any negative conflicts...
Even though we can't see each other, shouldn't our conversation's be civil, full of love, peace, and HARMONY.
which WE are suppose to be, ALL THE TIME as Christians.
We are suppose to take the "low road", not retaliate to maintain the "high road"......KEEP the PEACE.
(low road=humble-high road=pride)
We all think we know better, but we know we don't know as much as GOD, we should be concerned with what he says.
Here's an example...... Everyone is concerned with carbon emission's, ozone depletion,global warming....governments throw serious amounts of money towards it, they push for a new lifestyle, encourage us to go electric etc
Now as Christians do we follow what they ask, ....or listen to GOD, when he says the world is coming to an end, so ask about me, search for me, then come knock on my door and I will keep you safe.
What is the point of working on global warming, if the earth is going to be destroyed by fire?
Do we believe what GOD says?, ..or...think we can save the earth, by doing a few things (slow down,maybe)...it's centuries to late.
What Christian doesn't believe the LORD when HE says our time will come, "that those of us who are alive, will rise up to meet them in the air"
Once Saved Always Saved, cannot happen...We ALL acknowledge that walking with Christ is a hard journey, a straight journey, (no deviation)
but we ALL also know that we step off that journey from time to time.... the times we have stepped off, are we being saved.?
My understanding of GRACE is ...once we have committed to GOD, his grace washes over us when we step away from the journey
If unknowingly ..(we may be forgiven)
If you did intentionally, you definitely aren't saved... (yet).
Christianity is a bumpy journey, but the more we walk and stay on the path, the smoother and straighter it becomes.
As to being saved....It is my view that we (any of us) are not saved until we meet GOD & Jesus and are, judged into everlasting life and welcomed into the new heaven and new earth.
To do that we must maintain our life in them.
What we must do, is "be not asleep when HE comes." ...be vigilant, diligent, & LOVING.

GOD prepares us in and through our lives to get us ready for when he calls us into action.
Keep what GOD & Christ ask of us in our own strength and he will strengthen us.
Our job is to make people LOVE us...lol (with out a gun).
What is the greatest reward for a Christian ?..... "GOD himself will be with them".
GODblessusall.

 

[Hone]

This is what being a Christian means to me.......... when my 2 boys & I moved into our new abode(2019), because of my Sabbath, I mowed my lawns Sunday........ as my understanding in Christ grew....I've come to respect both my neighbours view of Sunday worship(they praising the same GOD)...so now I mow through the week, so not to interrupt their praises ...etc....they don't know I make that sacrifice, that's just between GOD and me...and now you my BRETHREN....I hope that gets added to me for salvation.
(started on the wrong foot, assumed I had run her plant over,first couple months)
not gonna wait and see...lol...stay in the faith my brethren's

 

[Justified]

My brother's & sister's, if we say we are of Christ.....should we not act like we are....we should be helping one another understand and get closer to GOD.
If you feel like you HAVE to tell others how to: read the Bible,...see the chapters and verses as you,...understand the prophecy's the way you do... knowing that human nature will push some to retaliate, ...shouldn't WE ALL be trying to avoid any negative conflicts...
Even though we can't see each other, shouldn't our conversation's be civil, full of love, peace, and HARMONY.
which WE are suppose to be, ALL THE TIME as Christians.
We are suppose to take the "low road", not retaliate to maintain the "high road"......KEEP the PEACE.
(low road=humble-high road=pride)
We all think we know better, but we know we don't know as much as GOD, we should be concerned with what he says.
Here's an example...... Everyone is concerned with carbon emission's, ozone depletion,global warming....governments throw serious amounts of money towards it, they push for a new lifestyle, encourage us to go electric etc
Now as Christians do we follow what they ask, ....or listen to GOD, when he says the world is coming to an end, so ask about me, search for me, then come knock on my door and I will keep you safe.
What is the point of working on global warming, if the earth is going to be destroyed by fire?
Do we believe what GOD says?, ..or...think we can save the earth, by doing a few things (slow down,maybe)...it's centuries to late.
What Christian doesn't believe the LORD when HE says our time will come, "that those of us who are alive, will rise up to meet them in the air"
Once Saved Always Saved, cannot happen...We ALL acknowledge that walking with Christ is a hard journey, a straight journey, (no deviation)
but we ALL also know that we step off that journey from time to time.... the times we have stepped off, are we being saved.?
My understanding of GRACE is ...once we have committed to GOD, his grace washes over us when we step away from the journey
If unknowingly ..(we may be forgiven)
If you did intentionally, you definitely aren't saved... (yet).
Christianity is a bumpy journey, but the more we walk and stay on the path, the smoother and straighter it becomes.
As to being saved....It is my view that we (any of us) are not saved until we meet GOD & Jesus and are, judged into everlasting life and welcomed into the new heaven and new earth.
To do that we must maintain our life in them.
What we must do, is "be not asleep when HE comes." ...be vigilant, diligent, & LOVING.

GOD prepares us in and through our lives to get us ready for when he calls us into action.
Keep what GOD & Christ ask of us in our own strength and he will strengthen us.
Our job is to make people LOVE us...lol (with out a gun).
What is the greatest reward for a Christian ?..... "GOD himself will be with them".
GODblessusall.

Just a couple of comments that came to mind as I read through your post.

>>shouldn't WE ALL be trying to avoid any negative conflicts...
Even though we can't see each other, shouldn't our conversation's be civil, full of love, peace, and HARMONY.
which WE are suppose to be, ALL THE TIME as Christians.<<

While I agree that we should strive to be better there are times when we have to be disagreeable. Standing up for the truth of scripture comes to mind. And if you look at Christ Jesus I trust you will find that He was willing to confront people.

>>If unknowingly ..(we may be forgiven)
If you did intentionally, you definitely aren't saved... (yet).<<

"We may be forgiven", is not biblical. If we have trusted in Christ Jesus as Lord and saviour then He is our Lord and saviour. The bible is clear regarding two points that you make 1] we do sin after we are saved 2] we will be forgiven. We know that John is speaking of forgiven sinners here by the text.

1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1Jn 1:9 if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Look at what Paul said in Rom 7:14-25 he sinned although it was not what he wanted to do. Was he forgiven?

"If you did intentionally". You do realize that getting angry with a brother and calling him a fool is sin. Actually anything that you do that is not inline with God is a sin, so understanding that then you know that we all sin and many times it is intentionally. Yet we are still saved. If a persons sins and asks for forgiveness they will be forgiven but if a person decides to walk away from God and repudiate faith in Him then they will be lost. The only sin that will not be forgiven is unbelief.

But know this if/when you or I or anyone that has trusted in Christ Jesus sins we have an advocate.

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

Salvation through faith in Christ Jesus is not a guarantee that we will never sin but just that we will be forgiven when we do.

 

[Nehemiah6]

As to your question, I trust God means what he said and said what he meant when he told us he predestined whom he would save.

That is not what God actually said or meant. That is how the Calvinists have taken the meaning of predestination. They have asserted that God predestines some for salvation and others for damnation. That is completely FALSE and a damnable doctrine.

God offers salvation to all humanity -- each and every person. And "whosoever" means that anyone and everyone can come to Christ and be saved. See John 3:15,16,17.

At the same time, those who obey the Gospel are predestined to be perfected and glorified. That is what election and predestination is all about. God does not simply justify the sinner. He ensure that believers will be sanctified throughout their lives by giving the gift of the Holy Spirit to them. However, since the sin nature (the flesh) is not eradicated, believers can and do sin. Therefore at the Resurrection/Rapture Christ will perfect and glorify all the saints and take them to Heaven.

1 JOHN 3: THE PERFECTION OF THE CHILDREN OF GOD
1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

 

[Hone]

Just a couple of comments that came to mind as I read through your post.

>>shouldn't WE ALL be trying to avoid any negative conflicts...
Even though we can't see each other, shouldn't our conversation's be civil, full of love, peace, and HARMONY.
which WE are suppose to be, ALL THE TIME as Christians.<<

While I agree that we should strive to be better there are times when we have to be disagreeable. Standing up for the truth of scripture comes to mind. And if you look at Christ Jesus I trust you will find that He was willing to confront people.

>>If unknowingly ..(we may be forgiven)
If you did intentionally, you definitely aren't saved... (yet).<<

"We may be forgiven", is not biblical. If we have trusted in Christ Jesus as Lord and saviour then He is our Lord and saviour. The bible is clear regarding two points that you make 1] we do sin after we are saved 2] we will be forgiven. We know that John is speaking of forgiven sinners here by the text.

1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1Jn 1:9 if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Look at what Paul said in Rom 7:14-25 he sinned although it was not what he wanted to do. Was he forgiven?

"If you did intentionally". You do realize that getting angry with a brother and calling him a fool is sin. Actually anything that you do that is not inline with God is a sin, so understanding that then you know that we all sin and many times it is intentionally. Yet we are still saved. If a persons sins and asks for forgiveness they will be forgiven but if a person decides to walk away from God and repudiate faith in Him then they will be lost. The only sin that will not be forgiven is unbelief.

But know this if/when you or I or anyone that has trusted in Christ Jesus sins we have an advocate.

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

Salvation through faith in Christ Jesus is not a guarantee that we will never sin but just that we will be forgiven when we do.

my friend.... I for one (since baptism), have been given a voice by GOD that is very strong and precise. he has made me very bold in his word.
but he has also given me a great understanding to do all things with him, and in him through love whenever possible,
it is a very humbling experience.

If we are Christians, we CANNOT set out to intentionally sin, it's NOT Christian.
Will you be saved if you intentionally commit the same sin over and over again?......the Bible says NO
but you will be forgiven if you STOP.....you will also be forgiven if a few months or years later you stumble in your faith, but ask forgiveness.
The Bible can be easy or hard depending on our understanding and commitment...but we Christians must be advocates of Christ and NOT sin...no matter what.

 

[Icedaisey]

That is not what God actually said or meant. That is how the Calvinists have taken the meaning of predestination. They have asserted that God predestines some for salvation and others for damnation. That is completely FALSE and a damnable doctrine.

God offers salvation to all humanity -- each and every person. And "whosoever" means that anyone and everyone can come to Christ and be saved. See John 3:15,16,17.

At the same time, those who obey the Gospel are predestined to be perfected and glorified. That is what election and predestination is all about. God does not simply justify the sinner. He ensure that believers will be sanctified throughout their lives by giving the gift of the Holy Spirit to them. However, since the sin nature (the flesh) is not eradicated, believers can and do sin. Therefore at the Resurrection/Rapture Christ will perfect and glorify all the saints and take them to Heaven.

1 JOHN 3: THE PERFECTION OF THE CHILDREN OF GOD
1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

No matter how many times it's said... Augustine predated Calvin. And the Lamb's Book of Life predated everything.

Where do you think Augustine and John Calvin got their Eschatology from thin air?

It's scripture.

And what's the problem?
When you're one of the Elect.

What's upsetting about God predestination of all in his creation? When everything that exists or ever did, is in God's control.

And you're arguing there is something that isn't. Salvation!

Seriously?

He tells us he decides who lives and who dies all through HIS WORD to us.
Or do we ignore Egypt? Sodom & Gomorrah, the Deluge. And those are the popular parts.

God ordered people massacred. The unborn to be ripped from their mothers.
Hosea 13:16

Hosea 13:16 Samaria shall bear her guilt, because she has rebelled against her God; they shall fall by the sword; their little ones shall be dashed in pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open.
(Pro-Life peeps ignore that scripture. But it's not the only one.)

Guess what else? God has decided how long he is going to let you to live. Me too. Everyone here.

Job 12:10 In whose hand is the life of every living thing,And the breath of all mankind?

“Man’s days are determined; you (God) have decreed the number of his months and have set limits he cannot exceed." Job 14:5

And now, here, we have people insisting God's Book of Life isn't what he says it is. And God hasn't predestined whom he would Save.
1 Peter 1:2 According to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you.

When, if we read the beginning of all creation, Genesis, we realize God wrote the Lamb's Book of Life before creation, knowing those whom He would Save because He planned The Fall!

And this is how we know that.

Proverbs 19:21Many are the plans in the mind of a man, but it is the purpose of the Lord that will stand.

Job 42:2“I know that you can do all things, and that no purpose of yours can be thwarted."

Ephesians 1:11in Him, in whom also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of the One working all things according to the counsel of His will.

And you have the nerve to claim you know God didn't mean what he said in His Word?
Our God is in the heavens; he does all that he pleases.

The Lord has established his throne in the heavens, and his kingdom rules over all.

What do you think prophecy scriptures in the Bible are? God telling us what he has planned.

Jeremiah 10:23 I know, O Lord, that a man’s way is not in himself,
Nor is it in a man who walks to direct his steps.


Isaiah 45:7 The One forming light and creating darkness,
Causing well-being and creating calamity;
I am the Lord who does all these.


God is: Sovereign over his creation, Omnipotent, Omniscient, and Preeminent over his plans, power, creation.

But you know He didn't mean to predestine whom he would Save, after he told everyone else he wrote those people's names in His Book of Life before he created this world that would need Saving according to His plan. Because you know He didn't plan that. Even after He told us He did.

Genesis chapters 5 to 9
Just a few chapters after Creation.​

God inspired the Bible. But you know what he actually meant to tell us about having chosen whom He would Save is different than what he said in his own words. As The Word.

Seriously?
No, I don't think you are to be taken seriously. Nor those who make your same type argument as you abrogate His word to make your false point.

Who protests against God having predestined their Salvation, as one of those He called to be Saved?
No, not one.

​

 

[Nehemiah6]

No matter how many times it's said... Augustine predated Calvin. And the Lamb's Book of Life predated everything.

Your response is all over the map. Stick to the subject. If God were predestinating people to damnation, would Christ command the Church to preach the Gospel to "every creature"? Do you see the foolishness and absurdity of that position?

And do you not understand that ALL NAMES are written in the Book of Life until they are "blotted out", removed, expunged? Is that not what the Bible reveals?

 

[Icedaisey]

Your response is all over the map. Stick to the subject. If God were predestinating people to damnation, would Christ command the Church to preach the Gospel to "every creature"? Do you see the foolishness and absurdity of that position?

And do you not understand that ALL NAMES are written in the Book of Life until they are "blotted out", removed, expunged? Is that not what the Bible reveals?

I am on topic. Context!
Read scripture in context. Read the implicit, not the explicit in verses.


To that last question especially. No!


“In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.” [Ephesians 1:13-14 ESV]


“To an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God's power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.” [1 Peter 1:4-5 ESV]
Link: Can my name be blotted out of the Book of Life?
( No! Not ever.Don't ever let anyone lead any one from the truth of that. )

Armenians and Semi-Pelagianists believe they can lose Salvation. This may explain why they think those who know we can't lose Salvation are called Calvinist. Those two camps have always been at odds.
That's why these type threads go on and on.

 

[justbyfaith]

He tells us he decides who lives and who dies all through HIS WORD to us.
Or do we ignore Egypt? Sodom & Gomorrah, the God ordered people massacred. The unborn to be ripped from their mothers.
Hosea 13:16

Hosea 13:16 Samaria shall bear her guilt, because she has rebelled against her God; they shall fall by the sword; their little ones shall be dashed in pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open.
(Pro-Life peeps ignore that scripture. But it's not the only one.)

God did not order them to be massacred.

He simply knew what was going to happen and told the prophet what that future event would be.