Growing in the Spirit

[randyk]

Growing in the Spirit. I recently had a fellow Christian argue with me that Jesus never "became sin." He was concerned to say that Jesus was not flawed, and never knew sin.

However, in explaining to him the necessity that Jesus did in effect "become sin" by being willing to suffer punishment that we deserve, I said the following...

"Growing in the knowledge of the Lord is not necessarily Salvation. Yes, atonement is being reconciled to God--not merely by asking forgiveness, and not merely by growing in the knowledge of God, but more, by repenting in the name of Jesus, through whom we receive eternal life.

"If only Jesus' works were qualified to atone for our sins and to give us eternal life, then nothing we do apart from him obtains for us salvation. All that we do, including repentance and spiritual growth, must begin with our embrace of Jesus as our spiritual life, because he alone is the source of eternal atonement for sin.

"What I'm saying is that in choosing Jesus as our atonement this is synonymous with embracing his spiritual life alone as our source of living, and rejecting all of our own carnal works and independence of mind. All our spiritual growth, and all of our repentance from here on out, comes through our abiding in his spiritual life. Only in this way do we benefit from his atonement and receive eternal life.

"When you say Jesus did not become "sin" for us, you are in effect denying that he became the source of our atonement. He went through suffering and death to make himself available to sinners who repent *in his name.* To repent apart from his name is to deny the necessity of his atonement."

Let me encourage you today to "walk in the Spirit," which doesn't mean that you have to receive mental impressions of what course to take each day, but rather, that we receive in our conscience a sense of how to behave in our decision-making in the spirit of God's love. Do this, and you will be blessed. Suffer for it, and you will be blessed even more!

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Growing in the Spirit. I recently had a fellow Christian argue with me that Jesus never "became sin." He was concerned to say that Jesus was not flawed, and never knew sin.

However, in explaining to him the necessity that Jesus did in effect "become sin" by being willing to suffer punishment that we deserve, I said the following...

"Growing in the knowledge of the Lord is not necessarily Salvation. Yes, atonement is being reconciled to God--not merely by asking forgiveness, and not merely by growing in the knowledge of God, but more, by repenting in the name of Jesus, through whom we receive eternal life.

"If only Jesus' works were qualified to atone for our sins and to give us eternal life, then nothing we do apart from him obtains for us salvation. All that we do, including repentance and spiritual growth, must begin with our embrace of Jesus as our spiritual life, because he alone is the source of eternal atonement for sin.

"What I'm saying is that in choosing Jesus as our atonement this is synonymous with embracing his spiritual life alone as our source of living, and rejecting all of our own carnal works and independence of mind. All our spiritual growth, and all of our repentance from here on out, comes through our abiding in his spiritual life. Only in this way do we benefit from his atonement and receive eternal life.

"When you say Jesus did not become "sin" for us, you are in effect denying that he became the source of our atonement. He went through suffering and death to make himself available to sinners who repent *in his name.* To repent apart from his name is to deny the necessity of his atonement."

Let me encourage you today to "walk in the Spirit," which doesn't mean that you have to receive mental impressions of what course to take each day, but rather, that we receive in our conscience a sense of how to behave in our decision-making in the spirit of God's love. Do this, and you will be blessed. Suffer for it, and you will be blessed even more!

To walk in this spirit

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭

“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬



frees us from sins power and dominion over us so we don’t keep walking in the flesh and be cut off Paul’s speaking directly from the gospel

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32, 34-36‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:16-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬


it’s why preaching and believing the gospel is so important

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭

the spirit , the word of truth , the word of life , all are speaking of the same gospel the word of Christ. The apostle Paul was referencing it every time in his epistles which we’re written to people who had heard and believed the gospel of the kingdom that Jesus preached beginning at Jerusalem.

 

[Blik]

It doesn't take a scholar learned in doctrine to walk in the spirit, nor does it require we completely understand all the ways of the Lord. Christ preached that the kingdom of God had come, and to be good citizens of that kingdom it only takes faith in all we are told of it.

Jesus didn't preach about how to understand it or how to be correct about our interpretation, Jesus said to walk with faith in the path that is laid out for us. It is a simple path a child can follow, but so revolutionary it opposes most of what the world says to follow. The world says to be great you need to have a fancy house and car and it helps if you hit any ball--football, golf ball, baseball, better than anyone else. Christ says to be great is to be a servant of all people. The world says to fight for our rights, Jesus says to love our enemies and do good for them. It is revolutionary, even today.

 

[Journeyman]

Growing in the Spirit. I recently had a fellow Christian argue with me that Jesus never "became sin."

Actually, I said our Savior never became sin in the eyes of his Father, He was regarded by evil men to be sin, sinful, a sinner.

You plot against your brother; you slander your own brother. When you did these things, I was silent, so you thought I was exactly like you. Psa.50:20-21

 

[randyk]

Actually, I said our Savior never became sin in the eyes of his Father, He was regarded by evil men to be sin, sinful, a sinner.

You plot against your brother; you slander your own brother. When you did these things, I was silent, so you thought I was exactly like you. Psa.50:20-21

Journeyman, you are being dishonest. I checked to see in various places if Christians felt the same way I did, and they do. They see your statements for what they are. Not only did you say that men saw Jesus as a sinner, you said *this passage* did not indicate Jesus was a "sin sacrifice." At least that was the clear implication you were arguing against. But if you wish to change your mind, that would make me quite happy.

 

[randyk]

2 Peter 2.1 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.

Journeyman: Nobody has ever, in this discussion, said that others didn't see Jesus as a sinner. But when the passage says that Jesus was made sin, it was talking about him being made a *sin sacrifice.* You used to believe that, and a false teacher came to you and misled you. Please return to your original position. There are indeed "false teachers" out there. And we have to remain in doctrinal purity together as brothers.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

It doesn't take a scholar learned in doctrine to walk in the spirit, nor does it require we completely understand all the ways of the Lord. Christ preached that the kingdom of God had come, and to be good citizens of that kingdom it only takes faith in all we are told of it.

Jesus didn't preach about how to understand it or how to be correct about our interpretation, Jesus said to walk with faith in the path that is laid out for us. It is a simple path a child can follow, but so revolutionary it opposes most of what the world says to follow. The world says to be great you need to have a fancy house and car and it helps if you hit any ball--football, golf ball, baseball, better than anyone else. Christ says to be great is to be a servant of all people. The world says to fight for our rights, Jesus says to love our enemies and do good for them. It is revolutionary, even today.

Amen if we just allow ourselves to hear the gospel faith will begin to grow away from the worldly thinking and towards his thinking and as we hear and understand more and more our own accountability and provision raises to walk in those things we’re hearing and understanding

“And that servant, which knew his Lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes.

For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required:

and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭12:47-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we are individually only accountable for what we know and grasp of the gospel. Not what another person who knows far more they are accountable for their measire of understanding and we for our measure

The more we grasp the more we’re able to walk right and held accountable to walk by our faith , the less we grasp our standard is less but the requirement is to hear the gospel be willing to let in those thkngs we hear and can understand.

it makes it impossible for one Christian to judge another because only God knows what we really grasp and he will be the judge of each individual by that measure. Salvstion is truly between the believer and God alone

 

[randyk]

Amen if we just allow ourselves to hear the gospel faith will begin to grow away from the worldly thinking and towards his thinking and as we hear and understand more and more our own accountability and provision raises to walk in those things we’re hearing and understanding

“And that servant, which knew his Lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes.

For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required:

and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭12:47-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we are individually only accountable for what we know and grasp of the gospel. Not what another person who knows far more they are accountable for their measire of understanding and we for our measure

The more we grasp the more we’re able to walk right and held accountable to walk by our faith , the less we grasp our standard is less but the requirement is to hear the gospel be willing to let in those thkngs we hear and can understand.

it makes it impossible for one Christian to judge another because only God knows what we really grasp and he will be the judge of each individual by that measure. Salvstion is truly between the believer and God alone

I agree we need to put our own eyes right before we can see the problems in another properly. If we aren't correcting in love, it isn't worth correcting, because it won't be received.

But we do have need to judge whether the teaching is false when taught by a brother. Paul spent a lot of time dealing with false teaching. That's one reason he wrote his letters.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I agree we need to put our own eyes right before we can see the problems in another properly. If we aren't correcting in love, it isn't worth correcting, because it won't be received.

But we do have need to judge whether the teaching is false when taught by a brother. Paul spent a lot of time dealing with false teaching. That's one reason he wrote his letters.

yeah we should always make sure whatever doctrine is presented is in accordance with the gospel. Paul , Peter and John all addresses the dangers of false teachings leading people astray

I just my own personal belief , think that thier teachings always line up with the things Christ taught them in the gospel. And that’s how we know of something is straying from the truth

I think just discussing doctrine is how we can get to the same place when we have humility among all Our group and no one is teaching all but sort of all teaching one another from the same position as students and disciples of the lord

 

[Mofastus]

I think just discussing doctrine is how we can get to the same place when we have humility among all Our group and no one is teaching all but sort of all teaching one another from the same position as students and disciples of the lord

Amen !

Philippians 2:3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.

 

[randyk]

yeah we should always make sure whatever doctrine is presented is in accordance with the gospel. Paul , Peter and John all addresses the dangers of false teachings leading people astray

I just my own personal belief , think that thier teachings always line up with the things Christ taught them in the gospel. And that’s how we know of something is straying from the truth

I think just discussing doctrine is how we can get to the same place when we have humility among all Our group and no one is teaching all but sort of all teaching one another from the same position as students and disciples of the lord

A lot of truth in that. We tend to see things from the vantage point where we stand, and fail to see the diversity of gifts among us, and how others see things in the Lord differently. But yes, basic doctrine can't be compromised without suffering spiritually, and we don't want our fellowship with the Lord to be upset in any way. Love is the balance Paul used to keep his doctrine free of absurdities and quarreling over nothing. We just need to stay tuned to the Spirit of Christ's love.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

A lot of truth in that. We tend to see things from the vantage point where we stand, and fail to see the diversity of gifts among us, and how others see things in the Lord differently. But yes, basic doctrine can't be compromised without suffering spiritually, and we don't want our fellowship with the Lord to be upset in any way. Love is the balance Paul used to keep his doctrine free of absurdities and quarreling over nothing. We just need to stay tuned to the Spirit of Christ's love.

amen brother couldn’t agree more. I think often Christians suffer in understanding doctrine , because they try to base everything on Pauls epistles rather than the gospel he preached for many years . but really John and Peter , James all agree and create a better understanding of what Paul was saying.

and all Of them Help us understand the gospel much better and more applicably to Our daily lives.

Many false teachers wi try to Emilinate everything but Paul’s epistles but clearly Peter and Paul were of the same body and writing to the same church of the same gospel , same grace also we see on peters second epistle proof of this and the danger of isolating Paul from the others

“And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood,

which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:15-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Paul also makes the point which apostle preached the gospel doesnt matter

“For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:9-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Paul’s constant argument was always that he was one of the apostles. And we see they were all Preaching the same things to the same church. To allow all of thier doctrine in , letting their epistles go together it helps us have a more complete view of the gospel. And I’ve found (for my own thinking ) how cohesive thier epistles really are and how thier different details all fit together and make a better more complete image of our beliefs. A better understanding to help us grow in grace and peace and love for others in his name

not really Unlike ive found here there’s a lot of folks here with really good details I hadn’t considered before (you are one of those ) and it helps open us up more to things we may have not noticed or considered

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Amen !

Philippians 2:3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.

verses like that are the key to growing up together and in that is found a bond truly made of Unity and peace in one Jesus Christ. One lord , one faith , one God , one church in whom we have peace with each other and as one have peace with God our savior and heavenly eternal Father,

one family built for eternal Life together with him who was , is and always will be !! I have a hope to stand together with others like you one day in this place beyond the shadow of death

“And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬


and so I work towards laying down self and hoping to help another stand and depending on others doing the same for
Me when I am weak as we travel
On towards home together in faith through the world that holds enough strife for us from non believers

we sometimes fail in things but there are Many ready to lift us up and on that there is such a hope in my own belief . It’s worth striving for

 

[randyk]

amen brother couldn’t agree more. I think often Christians suffer in understanding doctrine , because they try to base everything on Pauls epistles rather than the gospel he preached for many years . but really John and Peter , James all agree and create a better understanding of what Paul was saying.

and all Of them Help us understand the gospel much better and more applicably to Our daily lives.

Many false teachers wi try to Emilinate everything but Paul’s epistles but clearly Peter and Paul were of the same body and writing to the same church of the same gospel , same grace also we see on peters second epistle proof of this and the danger of isolating Paul from the others

“And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood,

which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:15-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Paul also makes the point which apostle preached the gospel doesnt matter

“For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:9-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Paul’s constant argument was always that he was one of the apostles. And we see they were all Preaching the same things to the same church. To allow all of thier doctrine in , letting their epistles go together it helps us have a more complete view of the gospel. And I’ve found (for my own thinking ) how cohesive thier epistles really are and how thier different details all fit together and make a better more complete image of our beliefs. A better understanding to help us grow in grace and peace and love for others in his name

not really Unlike ive found here there’s a lot of folks here with really good details I hadn’t considered before (you are one of those ) and it helps open us up more to things we may have not noticed or considered

You have a great attitude, and will go far with that. I do think it likely that God has given you a key that works specifically for you, and a key that can also help others. I know that God gave me a key years ago when I was in a state of indecision. I had a trouble being double-minded about what to believe, because good men disagreed with one another.

God led me to accept only what He has shown me, and not worry about others, except to give them an honest consideration--they may be correcting something I need to have corrected. But as far as reading the black and white of Scriptures, I should not be afraid to believe what I see is clear before me.

He also showed me a way to verify what I believed about the Scriptures, seeing doctrines rooted in previous passages. There is a connection between various passages that enable us to verify what they mean.

There were some basic promises God made, such as the Abrahamic promises. And there were key prophets who provided fundamental eternal truths that were referred to later on, such as the Prophet Daniel.

Certain doctrines that Paul taught had a basis in the Law of Moses. And like you said, Peter provided a balance to Paul, as well or cordiality. James also balanced Paul's emphasis on Grace with an emphasis on Christian Law.

And so, I agree with you that unity among brothers brings confirmation and balance. It also pleases the Lord because it demonstrates His unity among us, His presence in our midst.

Thanks for your kindness and wisdom. I only wish this was more prevalent.

 

[Journeyman]

Journeyman, you are being dishonest.....Not only did you say that men saw Jesus as a sinner, you said *this passage* did not indicate Jesus was a "sin sacrifice." At least that was the clear implication you were arguing against. But if you wish to change your mind, that would make me quite happy.

What's clear is how men falsely accused our Lord of being a sinner and unjustly abused him. Yet our Savior continued in love toward them while bearing the sins being committed against him. That is a great sacrifice.

 

[Journeyman]

2 Peter 2.1 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.

Journeyman: Nobody has ever, in this discussion, said that others didn't see Jesus as a sinner. But when the passage says that Jesus was made sin, it was talking about him being made a *sin sacrifice.*

Christs sacrifice was meant to produce a heart of repentance in the sinner.

You used to believe that, and a false teacher came to you and misled you.

The Jew who taught me was a faithful believer in Jesus.

Please return to your original position. There are indeed "false teachers" out there. And we have to remain in doctrinal purity together as brothers.

There is nothing pure in putting an innocent man to death. Purity comes from being sorry for having committed such an atrocity,

These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren. Pro.6:16-19

All these sins were committed against the Son of God.

 

[FreeGrace2]

randyk said:
Growing in the Spirit. I recently had a fellow Christian argue with me that Jesus never "became sin."

Actually, I said our Savior never became sin in the eyes of his Father, He was regarded by evil men to be sin, sinful, a sinner.

2 Cor 5:21 - God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

 

[FreeGrace2]

It doesn't take a scholar learned in doctrine to walk in the spirit, nor does it require we completely understand all the ways of the Lord.

I agree. But can you explain HOW to "walk in the Spirit"? Actually, Paul commands believers to "be filled with the Spirit" in Eph 5:18 and to "walk by means of the Spirit" in Gal 5:16. After describing the behavior of our "flesh" in v.17-21, Paul then describes the fruit (singular) of the Spirit in v.22-23.

So, how do believers produce this fruit?

Also, Paul commands believers to NOT grieve the Spirit (Eph 4:30) or quench the Spirit (1 Thess 5:19). This shows what believers who are NOT being filled or walking by the means of the Spirit are doing.

 

[randyk]

What's clear is how men falsely accused our Lord of being a sinner and unjustly abused him. Yet our Savior continued in love toward them while bearing the sins being committed against him. That is a great sacrifice.

People make sacrifices every time they visit the store and "sacrifice" some of their money. But it doesn't buy our salvation. The sacrifice Jesus made bought our salvation. Why don't you accept that anymore?

 

[randyk]

Christs sacrifice was meant to produce a heart of repentance in the sinner.

The Jew who taught me was a faithful believer in Jesus.

Being a Jew does not make anybody a better Christian! He was *not* faithful when he misled you about Jesus being made a "sin sacrifice."

"You have no need that anyone should teach you, as his anointing teaches you all things."

There is nothing pure in putting an innocent man to death. Purity comes from being sorry for having committed such an atrocity,

I didn't say murderers were performing a "pure" act! Jesus himself was sinless and pure when they put him to death, wrongly. That enabled him to forgive sinners for what they do to God. That is the "sin sacrifice" I'm talking about. But you've abandoned orthodox doctrine for a Jewish friend, thinking someone Jews have an edge on Christian interpretation of doctrine.

These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren. Pro.6:16-19

All these sins were committed against the Son of God.

Yes, all sin against God was forgiven when Jesus experienced that sin as a human being. That is what becoming a "sin sacrifice" was for Jesus. It was the opportunity to provide forgiveness when they accept him as their way, truth, and life.