What are Your Thoughts About Financially Independent Women?

[Lanolin]

really

Seoul put in her initial post that she ended up paying ALL the bills and childcare for children that werent even hers plus their COURT CASES and addictions

she didnt seem like she was happy doing that...is that what a suga momma does?

 

[Lynx]

They sure make great suga momma material !

This is why we need a facepalm reaction.

 

[JustJames]

really

Seoul put in her initial post that she ended up paying ALL the bills and childcare for children that werent even hers plus their COURT CASES and addictions

she didnt seem like she was happy doing that...is that what a suga momma does?

Oh I meant A response to the thread title not that post my bad!

 

[seoulsearch]

They sure make great suga momma material !

really

Seoul put in her initial post that she ended up paying ALL the bills and childcare for children that werent even hers plus their COURT CASES and addictions

she didnt seem like she was happy doing that...is that what a suga momma does?

This is why we need a facepalm reaction.

It's funny because I was talking with a guy friend a few days ago and he was lamenting the fact that as he got older, the dating pool he was around was almost all single mothers, and he was intimidated at the thought of providing and caring for a ready-made family.

I told him, "Well, you know, all those women didn't get pregnant by themselves. I'm pretty sure God hasn't done any further immaculate conception (no matter what the Star Wars prequels tried to make up,) so for every single mother, there's at least one single father out there, too."

My point was, it's not just men who are faced with the fact that dating and marrying today will very likely mean taking on a ready-made family.

Many of us women have found ourselves in that situation, too, and you really don't know what you're in for until you're actually knee deep in the hoopla.

And I'm certainly not trying to discourage anyone from dating a single parent.

I'm just saying, whether you are the one with kids or not, be smarter about it than I was and don't wind up being someone else's enabler.

 

[EmilyNats]

We have had strong and capable women in America for decades. Heck, the pioneer women who came out into the west originally were probably a heck of a lot stronger - mentally, emotionally, and physically - than most of us in our cushy little houses with running water will ever be. So why is it just now that everyone (including many women) starts rolling their eyes when they hear a woman declaring that they are "strong, independent women"?

I personally think it is because of the types of women who are doing all that declaring (and of course not all, but I would say a good 95%). Most of the women that I have met who openly label themselves as such have been bitter, entitled man-haters who are completely self-absorbed. Even in movies, look what types of characters they make the strong women characters. Their only real outstanding personality trait is that they are, quite frankly, bitches.

Rude does not equaL strong.
Bad communication skills does not equal independent.

But that is what women my age and younger are being taught in movies, books, and every other form of media. So in short, I think people have a lot less of a problem with actual independent women, and a lot more of a problem with obnoxious and mean women.

 

[Desdichado]

Tl;dr

The women inclined to say this are usually insufferable feminists.

We have had strong and capable women in America for decades. Heck, the pioneer women who came out into the west originally were probably a heck of a lot stronger - mentally, emotionally, and physically - than most of us in our cushy little houses with running water will ever be. So why is it just now that everyone (including many women) starts rolling their eyes when they hear a woman declaring that they are "strong, independent women"?

I personally think it is because of the types of women who are doing all that declaring (and of course not all, but I would say a good 95%). Most of the women that I have met who openly label themselves as such have been bitter, entitled man-haters who are completely self-absorbed. Even in movies, look what types of characters they make the strong women characters. Their only real outstanding personality trait is that they are, quite frankly, bitches.

Rude does not equaL strong.
Bad communication skills does not equal independent.

But that is what women my age and younger are being taught in movies, books, and every other form of media. So in short, I think people have a lot less of a problem with actual independent women, and a lot more of a problem with obnoxious and mean women.

 

[Desdichado]

"Being powerful is like being a lady. If you have to tell people you are, you aren't."- Margaret Thatcher

 

[Lanolin]

doesnt the US have an independence day on July 4 and they celebrate it rather than the alternative..
although...Meghan marrying Prince Harry sort of sent the message that maybe the americans didnt really want to be independent from the Brits.
Then there was all this drama and they ended up not being part of the Royal family after all.

? confusing.

 

[Desdichado]

I think it's more two things:

1. We're anglophones. We are going to follow most every big figure in anglophonic culture. We still have towns, cities, and states named after regal figures.
2. Americans worship celebrities. The Windsors have been a celebrity family since Edward VIII had his affair with Wallis Simpson.

Almost nobody is seriously arguing for America being ruled by the crown and parliament.

doesnt the US have an independence day on July 4 and they celebrate it rather than the alternative..
although...Meghan marrying Prince Harry sort of sent the message that maybe the americans didnt really want to be independent from the Brits.
Then there was all this drama and they ended up not being part of the Royal family after all.

? confusing.

 

[JustJames]

It's funny because I was talking with a guy friend a few days ago and he was lamenting the fact that as he got older, the dating pool he was around was almost all single mothers, and he was intimidated at the thought of providing and caring for a ready-made family.

I told him, "Well, you know, all those women didn't get pregnant by themselves. I'm pretty sure God hasn't done any further immaculate conception (no matter what the Star Wars prequels tried to make up,) so for every single mother, there's at least one single father out there, too."

My point was, it's not just men who are faced with the fact that dating and marrying today will very likely mean taking on a ready-made family.

Many of us women have found ourselves in that situation, too, and you really don't know what you're in for until you're actually knee deep in the hoopla.

And I'm certainly not trying to discourage anyone from dating a single parent.

I'm just saying, whether you are the one with kids or not, be smarter about it than I was and don't wind up being someone else's enabler.

Definitely know exactly what you are getting yourself into and make certain it is what you really want.

P.S. : nice of you to give a shout out to the prequels. I love em to death but they do get alot of hate out there

 

[Katia]

Hey Everyone,

Now I know that the very notion "Financially Independent Women" is going to automatically result in a knee-jerk reaction from some people.

There might even be talk about how such women are Femi-Nazi's, rebellious Jezebels, and enemies of the Christian faith and family. I am very aware that many Christians are against the idea of a woman having a career and making money on her own.

But what about all the single women who become financially independent by default?

Most people who have been here in the Singles Forum a while know my story. I married young, and he left me for someone younger while we were both still very young. He remarried and had a family, so there is no possibility of any kind of reconciliation. I do believe, with much study, prayer, and guidance from spiritual authorities at the churches I've been a part of, that I am Biblically able to remarry, but for whatever reason, God has kept me single.

In the many years that followed, I filled most of the long, lonely hours with work. I come from a family in which almost all the women worked before marriage, married very young, continued to work until they had kids, then stayed at home with the kids and most went back to work after the kids were grown. I didn't think I'd be any different. I figured I would work until kids came along, work as a homemaker, and then go to back to an outside job when the kids were grown in order to help with the bills.

Now raise your hand if your life didn't quite go the way you expected. (Never mind me as I raise both hands and both feet.)

I also come from a family who, if they are addicted to anything, it would be work, and saving money is treated like an Olympic sport. I don't know what other people talk about at their family gatherings, but I have a sector of my family that happily recalls the week's events of how they bought such-and-such on sale, through a discount club, with a coupon, on a rewards card that also earned them 10 gajillion more points on their purchase.

I was also raised with the mindset of living as frugally as one can do comfortably. For example, it's been over 2 years since I bothered plugging in my television, because I don't use any kind of cable or subscriptions services. Throughout my life, I spent most nights on the weekends writing paper letters and/or electronic messages rather than going out. And I was raised under the strong influence of parents who drilled it in my head from a young age to save money wherever I could. (As kids, if we received any birthday or Christmas money, we were required to tithe 10% of it to church, then save half of what was left.) I hated this rule as a kid, but am grateful as an adult because of the strict financial discipline it instilled.

I've never had a "big career" or position that would be of any significance to anyone. But I did fill my time with work, church, volunteer and ministry tasks, while mostly just being a homebody. Because of this, as the years (and years, and years) have rolled by, all I knew to do to try to give my life purpose was to start making goals for myself.

I also spent about 12 years in a few long-term relationships in which I wound up paying for the guys' bills, kids, addictions, and court cases, and when I finally untangled myself from all of that, I was kicking myself because I could have put all that money into my future retirement goals instead. (I'm trying to follow other family member's examples of retiring and then going into full-time volunteer ministry work.)

Though I don't go on many dates, I have gotten to the point where, on the first day, I just tell the waitress to put it on one bill and hand it to me, unless the guy absolutely insists on paying (and even then, I've usually already had the waitress process it before he should protest.) This is because of the many, many posts I've read on CC over the years about guys complaining that women are only out for money. As I've become more financially stable, I just decided in my heart that I will never give a man any reason to say that I used him for something, and most especially not a free dinner.

Now, I am certainly not criticizing anyone who might be in a different situation. But I wanted to talk about this because I see a lot of discussions about what women "should" or "should not" do:

* Women should stay at home.
* Women should not have careers.
* Women should not be independent (and I understand that some even believe that women can't be independent.)

But the thing is, what about all the women I am meeting at this stage of my life who never purposely set out to "go against the grain," but this is where life (and perhaps God) has taken them? And some of the plans I thought I could never fulfill without a husband (such as traveling,) I am now able to fulfill because I find other single women who have the same interests, as well as the means to pay for them.

I came to see every debt I owed as a noose around my neck, and, after watching other family members cut off most of their nooses, aspired to do the same. My ultimate goal is to break away as many nooses as I possibly can in order to free up my time and resources for more opportunities to help people.

And the thing is, I keep meeting more and more single women who, for whatever reason, haven't married (but would like to,) and in the meantime, they are working towards the same kinds of goals. Not out of rebellion or even by choice (most I know would like to be married with children, but it just hasn't happened,) but because this is what they are doing with the time God has given them.

And I know that in my own life, in order to keep up the practice of being submissive to a Christian man, there are times in my life when God has specifically led me to go to my father and/or Christian male friends about some of the decisions I make, so that I don't become "too" independent by default.

I know I have shared a lot about myself in this thread, but this discussion is NOT meant to be about me or my life at all. Rather, I'm using my own example as a springboard to open a conversation that asks:

* What happens when women become financially independent by default? (Due to life circumstances, not rebellion.)

* How does this change the dynamics between men and women when dating? (What if she makes more money than he does? Should she be expected to pay because of it?)

* How does a man lead a woman who is more financially independent than he is?

* If you believe a woman should or can never become independent, what should a long-term single woman be doing with her time, and how should she support herself?

* For the ladies -- if you would like to get married, how do you see yourself going from making all the decisions to yourself to then submitting the final say to a husband?


I understand the traditional viewpoints that women should stay at home and be homemakers without ever holding an outside job. But my parent's full-time volunteer ministry is financial counseling (they pay for all the expenses involved themselves,) and one of the biggest issues they are now seeing are women who have been raised in this mindset, kept dependent at home all their lives, then are left alone due to divorce or the death of their husband, and have absolutely no idea how to take care of themselves or their children.

I would love to hear your thoughts about women who have no choice but to learn how to take care of themselves. Thank you for sharing!

I am Financially independent but not by choice. I hope to not put myself in an emotionally abusive situation again.

 

[Icedaisey]

"What are Your Thoughts About Financially Independent Women?"

In today's world, invaluable.
Be a woman married or single. Many a woman has remained in a bad marriage because her husband refused to allow her to get a job.
And even a woman who is financially independent, but had only her debit card and no cash at the time, was abused by a man she'd dated a few times. He always picked up the tab before. But when she couldn't pick up the tab their last date together, he informed her that all those prior times were considered "credit" on his part. On this date he wanted his monies worth.

When a woman doesn't have her own money by which to survive herself, she's beholding to those who do.
Have your own money, single, married. And if you're not going to be applying for a loan, or CC anytime soon, protect your financial security and identity by putting a freeze on your credit report with the big three reporting agencies. Equifax, Experian, and TransUnion.
Since 2018 there is no cost for freezing or lifting the freeze on your report should you need to apply for credit. There's a company known as LifeLock that charges monthly to freeze your CR.

"There is no fee associated with freezing or thawing your credit. Until recently, credit freezes carried fees that varied by state, but they're now free regardless of where you live in the U.S. It's also free regardless of whether you've been a victim of identity theft.Jun 13, 2020

6 Things to Know Before Freezing Your Credit - Experian"

 

[TheIndianGirl]

We have had strong and capable women in America for decades. Heck, the pioneer women who came out into the west originally were probably a heck of a lot stronger - mentally, emotionally, and physically - than most of us in our cushy little houses with running water will ever be. So why is it just now that everyone (including many women) starts rolling their eyes when they hear a woman declaring that they are "strong, independent women"?

I personally think it is because of the types of women who are doing all that declaring (and of course not all, but I would say a good 95%). Most of the women that I have met who openly label themselves as such have been bitter, entitled man-haters who are completely self-absorbed. Even in movies, look what types of characters they make the strong women characters. Their only real outstanding personality trait is that they are, quite frankly, bitches.

Rude does not equaL strong.
Bad communication skills does not equal independent.

But that is what women my age and younger are being taught in movies, books, and every other form of media. So in short, I think people have a lot less of a problem with actual independent women, and a lot more of a problem with obnoxious and mean women.

I think perspective matters. I think if you compare an Asian woman from the 1800s with a pioneer woman from 1800s, from the perspective of 1800s Asians the pioneer woman would have been regarded as bitchy because she would have been more outspoken/had more rights, etc. The same could be said when you come these women from the 1920s, 1950s, etc.

Now, I agree that today's "modern" woman (limited to Western women) can appear more bitchy than pioneer women. I doubt too many women like the characters played by Cameron Diaz and Charlize Theron existed during those times (I actually don't think too many of those types of women exist in real life anyway, only a few). But, underneath that veneer, I think the pioneer women and "modern" women are basically the same in that both have the same level of determination, grit, are selfish for their own reasons, etc.

 

[Icedaisey]

This is why we need a facepalm reaction.

Is one able to be added to the smilies currently on the toolbar link?

🤦🤦‍♂️

 

[Lanolin]

all immigrants ARE pioneers in that they want a better life than the one they chose to leave behind.

When someone emigrates, they may face difficulties no matter where they emigrate to.

Because many women leave their place of birth whether to get married or for a job opportunity, that takes determination, and also leaving their family behind.

Some women may only migrate to the next suburb or town...but they do it because they believe in a BETTER life, and they need some finanancial independence to do so. Who really wants to be beholden to someone else or stay in an abusive situation where people withold funds from you? Nobody.

Nobody is going to PAY you when you get married. You have a home and may be given money to buy groceries perhaps but who really wants to be a kept woman. I dont think many actually want to sign up for that, or be a slave to someone else because basically you giving your body up.

A lot of women are pretty much raising children on their own because the men are not actually being dads even in married situations and they need the jobs to feed their children.

 

[Lanolin]

In many cases dads have no clue on how to raise children (both girls and boys) they may be earning the bread but they dont buy actual bread with any nutrition in it. They may buy mcdonalds and fizzy drink and alcohol and froot loops. . Children just cant survive on that. They go to school hungry.

 

[Desdichado]

Just when I thought nobody could put together an immigration bromide better than Jeb Bush, this happens!

all immigrants ARE pioneers in that they want a better life than the one they chose to leave behind.

 

[tourist]

I'm just saying, whether you are the one with kids or not, be smarter about it than I was and don't wind up being someone else's enabler.

I was an enabler for years. It was an exercise in futility.

 

[Desdichado]

My mom's side of the family is strongly of that pioneer stock. It's trickled down to the present due in part to religious conviction and country upbringing. Almost everyone in my immediate and extended family bailed hay, tapped syrup, butchered animals, stacked wood, and harvested corn at some point during the year; even if it was on an ad hoc basis as it was for me.

Modern women and pioneer women are not the same beneath that veneer. Living with the land and settling the unsettled instill a certain set of virtues; a different kind of grit that is resolute in subduing the earth, but knowledgeable of one's place in nature.

Bitchiness has a petty quality to it. It is feminine aggression targeting things that do not call for feminine aggression. It's non-essential, complaint department trash. Pioneer women generally knew when they ought to be a fox and when they ought to be a lion. Same goes for men. Modern Westerners do not and we are throwing away the corpus of wisdom what would have led us to virtue without bailing hay.

Alas.

I think perspective matters. I think if you compare an Asian woman from the 1800s with a pioneer woman from 1800s, from the perspective of 1800s Asians the pioneer woman would have been regarded as bitchy because she would have been more outspoken/had more rights, etc. The same could be said when you come these women from the 1920s, 1950s, etc.

Now, I agree that today's "modern" woman (limited to Western women) can appear more bitchy than pioneer women. I doubt too many women like the characters played by Cameron Diaz and Charlize Theron existed during those times (I actually don't think too many of those types of women exist in real life anyway, only a few). But, underneath that veneer, I think the pioneer women and "modern" women are basically the same in that both have the same level of determination, grit, are selfish for their own reasons, etc.

 

[JohnDB]

Hey Everyone,

Now I know that the very notion "Financially Independent Women" is going to automatically result in a knee-jerk reaction from some people.

There might even be talk about how such women are Femi-Nazi's, rebellious Jezebels, and enemies of the Christian faith and family. I am very aware that many Christians are against the idea of a woman having a career and making money on her own.

But what about all the single women who become financially independent by default?

Most people who have been here in the Singles Forum a while know my story. I married young, and he left me for someone younger while we were both still very young. He remarried and had a family, so there is no possibility of any kind of reconciliation. I do believe, with much study, prayer, and guidance from spiritual authorities at the churches I've been a part of, that I am Biblically able to remarry, but for whatever reason, God has kept me single.

In the many years that followed, I filled most of the long, lonely hours with work. I come from a family in which almost all the women worked before marriage, married very young, continued to work until they had kids, then stayed at home with the kids and most went back to work after the kids were grown. I didn't think I'd be any different. I figured I would work until kids came along, work as a homemaker, and then go to back to an outside job when the kids were grown in order to help with the bills.

Now raise your hand if your life didn't quite go the way you expected. (Never mind me as I raise both hands and both feet.)

I also come from a family who, if they are addicted to anything, it would be work, and saving money is treated like an Olympic sport. I don't know what other people talk about at their family gatherings, but I have a sector of my family that happily recalls the week's events of how they bought such-and-such on sale, through a discount club, with a coupon, on a rewards card that also earned them 10 gajillion more points on their purchase.

I was also raised with the mindset of living as frugally as one can do comfortably. For example, it's been over 2 years since I bothered plugging in my television, because I don't use any kind of cable or subscriptions services. Throughout my life, I spent most nights on the weekends writing paper letters and/or electronic messages rather than going out. And I was raised under the strong influence of parents who drilled it in my head from a young age to save money wherever I could. (As kids, if we received any birthday or Christmas money, we were required to tithe 10% of it to church, then save half of what was left.) I hated this rule as a kid, but am grateful as an adult because of the strict financial discipline it instilled.

I've never had a "big career" or position that would be of any significance to anyone. But I did fill my time with work, church, volunteer and ministry tasks, while mostly just being a homebody. Because of this, as the years (and years, and years) have rolled by, all I knew to do to try to give my life purpose was to start making goals for myself.

I also spent about 12 years in a few long-term relationships in which I wound up paying for the guys' bills, kids, addictions, and court cases, and when I finally untangled myself from all of that, I was kicking myself because I could have put all that money into my future retirement goals instead. (I'm trying to follow other family member's examples of retiring and then going into full-time volunteer ministry work.)

Though I don't go on many dates, I have gotten to the point where, on the first day, I just tell the waitress to put it on one bill and hand it to me, unless the guy absolutely insists on paying (and even then, I've usually already had the waitress process it before he should protest.) This is because of the many, many posts I've read on CC over the years about guys complaining that women are only out for money. As I've become more financially stable, I just decided in my heart that I will never give a man any reason to say that I used him for something, and most especially not a free dinner.

Now, I am certainly not criticizing anyone who might be in a different situation. But I wanted to talk about this because I see a lot of discussions about what women "should" or "should not" do:

* Women should stay at home.
* Women should not have careers.
* Women should not be independent (and I understand that some even believe that women can't be independent.)

But the thing is, what about all the women I am meeting at this stage of my life who never purposely set out to "go against the grain," but this is where life (and perhaps God) has taken them? And some of the plans I thought I could never fulfill without a husband (such as traveling,) I am now able to fulfill because I find other single women who have the same interests, as well as the means to pay for them.

I came to see every debt I owed as a noose around my neck, and, after watching other family members cut off most of their nooses, aspired to do the same. My ultimate goal is to break away as many nooses as I possibly can in order to free up my time and resources for more opportunities to help people.

And the thing is, I keep meeting more and more single women who, for whatever reason, haven't married (but would like to,) and in the meantime, they are working towards the same kinds of goals. Not out of rebellion or even by choice (most I know would like to be married with children, but it just hasn't happened,) but because this is what they are doing with the time God has given them.

And I know that in my own life, in order to keep up the practice of being submissive to a Christian man, there are times in my life when God has specifically led me to go to my father and/or Christian male friends about some of the decisions I make, so that I don't become "too" independent by default.

I know I have shared a lot about myself in this thread, but this discussion is NOT meant to be about me or my life at all. Rather, I'm using my own example as a springboard to open a conversation that asks:

* What happens when women become financially independent by default? (Due to life circumstances, not rebellion.)

* How does this change the dynamics between men and women when dating? (What if she makes more money than he does? Should she be expected to pay because of it?)

* How does a man lead a woman who is more financially independent than he is?

* If you believe a woman should or can never become independent, what should a long-term single woman be doing with her time, and how should she support herself?

* For the ladies -- if you would like to get married, how do you see yourself going from making all the decisions to yourself to then submitting the final say to a husband?


I understand the traditional viewpoints that women should stay at home and be homemakers without ever holding an outside job. But my parent's full-time volunteer ministry is financial counseling (they pay for all the expenses involved themselves,) and one of the biggest issues they are now seeing are women who have been raised in this mindset, kept dependent at home all their lives, then are left alone due to divorce or the death of their husband, and have absolutely no idea how to take care of themselves or their children.

I would love to hear your thoughts about women who have no choice but to learn how to take care of themselves. Thank you for sharing!

Actually in this day and age...and the ratios of Single Christian men vs Single Christian women... you really do need to be financially independent.

The ratio of men to women is a fraction so small that if it was an investment opportunity I would pass on it every day of the week.

There's at least a dozen women for every single guy... usually 20-30.

And because it's this way if you want a true husband you probably will be financially dominant...that doesn't mean that you can't GIVE him the leadership role in a household. Marriage is not about money, nor should a marriage center on who earns the most.

I'm semi-retired but my wife's career is gaining traction and heading up. (17yr difference between us)

When I was single there was a TON of women buried in debt looking for a guy to pay them off. Basically a high priced whore. Those sorts of relationships never really work.

And I can understand completely that you want a guy who is a real man...one who doesn't sit down to urinate or wears boxers inside out because the seams chafe. Or some guy who is looking for "easy street" and wanting to ride the gravy train.

So long as the guy has a reasonable somewhat educated career that pays his bills does it really matter how much money he makes? These days men aren't the only ones who can be guilty of economic abuse of another person. (As has been the case for centuries)

It is rumored that George Washington actually married his wife Martha for her money...(she was wealthy and he was just an honest soldier)

And I'm about confident that in the business world you can have some very sharp teeth when you need to...and you are going to have to go to extraordinary lengths to prove that you won't use those teeth on any suitors... because that will scare them off. No, you don't have to be a doormat to be loved...just a matter of being equals.

That's just my thoughts on the subject.