Understanding the Trinity as a doctrine.
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I never said you did, I am saying the argument of understanding the Godhead fully from our fleshly state is impossible.
Prophecy= is one who is speaking under the inspiration which must be spiritually discerned, yet, we are limited in even the inspiration of the Holy Spirit because of our fallen flesh which is always against the Spirit Gal 5:17-25.
Paul said we can't fully know until this moral put on immortality and the corruption is put on incorruptibility.
we have limited revelation. General = creation special= The word of God illumination = the Holy Spirit in relationship with Christ and the word of God.
The Prophetic word of God does three things for man:
1. We learn our need for God and to repent and accept Jesus as the Spirit of God leads us to Christ.
2. we received revelation from HIS word for appropriate worship & righteous living Therefore in that we know God
That is it on this side of glory.
the simplifying of the Full nature Divine nature of God is profane, meaning " to make common".
for example the eggshell, yoke, and while or water: ice steam and liquid.
These are man's rationale to explain the One True God.
I tell you they are futile in doing so. Hebrew 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
Prophecy= is one who is speaking under the inspiration which must be spiritually discerned, yet, we are limited in even the inspiration of the Holy Spirit because of our fallen flesh which is always against the Spirit Gal 5:17-25.
Paul said we can't fully know until this moral put on immortality and the corruption is put on incorruptibility.
we have limited revelation. General = creation special= The word of God illumination = the Holy Spirit in relationship with Christ and the word of God.
The Prophetic word of God does three things for man:
1. We learn our need for God and to repent and accept Jesus as the Spirit of God leads us to Christ.
2. we received revelation from HIS word for appropriate worship & righteous living Therefore in that we know God
That is it on this side of glory.
the simplifying of the Full nature Divine nature of God is profane, meaning " to make common".
for example the eggshell, yoke, and while or water: ice steam and liquid.
These are man's rationale to explain the One True God.
I tell you they are futile in doing so. Hebrew 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
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However, if you algebraically interpose what we find in 1 Corinthians 8:6, James 3:9 (kjv), Ephesians 4:6, and Romans 15:6, when you read John 1:1, it can be found to be saying,
Jhn 1:1, In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with <the Father>, and the Word was <the Father>.
It should be clear that the name of the "son that was given" shall be among other things, "the everlasting Father" (Isaiah 9:6). And that in order to deny this, one must change the wording of Isaiah 9:6, not once, but twice. Because the "Father of eternity" is still the Father; so you are going to have to change it a second time in order to deny that "the son that was given" is "the everlasting Father" (Isaiah 9:6).
And also, clearly, there is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5); even the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21). And yet, no one can say that Jesus is the Lord except by the power of the Holy Ghost (1 Corinthians 12:3 (kjv)). And, Jesus is the one Lord of holy scripture (1 Corinthians 8:6).
I conclude that Jesus and the Father are the same Lord (1 Corinthians 12:5, 2 Corinthians 8:19).
There is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4) and that Spirit is God (John 4:24).
Therefore, the one Spirit who inhabiteth eternity (Isaiah 57:15) without flesh, even the Father (John 4:23-24) is the same Spirit who dwells within the flesh of Jesus Christ (John 4:24, Ephesians 4:4); because Jesus is God in the flesh (1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7, 1 Timothy 3:16 (kjv)), and there is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4) who is God (John 4:24).
And, in this, I am declaring a distinction between the Father and the Son; because I am saying that the Father is a Spirit without flesh (John 4:23-24); while the Son is the same Spirit (John 4:24, Ephesians 4:4), being God, dwelling in flesh.
Jhn 1:1, In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with <the Father>, and the Word was <the Father>.
It should be clear that the name of the "son that was given" shall be among other things, "the everlasting Father" (Isaiah 9:6). And that in order to deny this, one must change the wording of Isaiah 9:6, not once, but twice. Because the "Father of eternity" is still the Father; so you are going to have to change it a second time in order to deny that "the son that was given" is "the everlasting Father" (Isaiah 9:6).
And also, clearly, there is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5); even the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21). And yet, no one can say that Jesus is the Lord except by the power of the Holy Ghost (1 Corinthians 12:3 (kjv)). And, Jesus is the one Lord of holy scripture (1 Corinthians 8:6).
I conclude that Jesus and the Father are the same Lord (1 Corinthians 12:5, 2 Corinthians 8:19).
There is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4) and that Spirit is God (John 4:24).
Therefore, the one Spirit who inhabiteth eternity (Isaiah 57:15) without flesh, even the Father (John 4:23-24) is the same Spirit who dwells within the flesh of Jesus Christ (John 4:24, Ephesians 4:4); because Jesus is God in the flesh (1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7, 1 Timothy 3:16 (kjv)), and there is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4) who is God (John 4:24).
And, in this, I am declaring a distinction between the Father and the Son; because I am saying that the Father is a Spirit without flesh (John 4:23-24); while the Son is the same Spirit (John 4:24, Ephesians 4:4), being God, dwelling in flesh.
'The Father is greater than I'
Was Jesus meaning superiority?
After Jesus says this He then ascends to be with the Father as One.
The Father was in a greater position, in heaven, not earth. Jesus was in the flesh on earth.
This isn't about the Father being superior.
Also if you go through the book of John, Jesus clearly puts Himself equal to the Father.
Was Jesus meaning superiority?
After Jesus says this He then ascends to be with the Father as One.
The Father was in a greater position, in heaven, not earth. Jesus was in the flesh on earth.
This isn't about the Father being superior.
Also if you go through the book of John, Jesus clearly puts Himself equal to the Father.
What about this?
HEBREWS 1
God’s Supreme Revelation
1God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2has in these last days spoken to us * by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; 3who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
* The Son Exalted Above Angels
5For to which of the angels did * He ever say:
“You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You”?
And again:
“I will be to Him a Father,
And He shall be to Me a Son”?
6But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says:
“Let all the angels of God worship * Him.”
7And of the angels He says:
“Who makes His angels spirits
And His ministers a flame of fire.”
8 * But to the Son He says: To The SON * HE says two distinct beings
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
9You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
* Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
Which Isaiah 9:6 is fulfilled But to The Son HE says "Your throne, O'GOD is forever and ever
I put a asterisk where it shows two distinct beings.
The Father and the Son. Also it is written Hus sits at the right hand of the Father.
And of course we can go around and around on this forever and I feel we both will end up believing what we believe.
Gods Blessings
HEBREWS 1
God’s Supreme Revelation
1God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2has in these last days spoken to us * by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; 3who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
* The Son Exalted Above Angels
5For to which of the angels did * He ever say:
“You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You”?
And again:
“I will be to Him a Father,
And He shall be to Me a Son”?
6But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says:
“Let all the angels of God worship * Him.”
7And of the angels He says:
“Who makes His angels spirits
And His ministers a flame of fire.”
8 * But to the Son He says: To The SON * HE says two distinct beings
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
9You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
* Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
Which Isaiah 9:6 is fulfilled But to The Son HE says "Your throne, O'GOD is forever and ever
I put a asterisk where it shows two distinct beings.
The Father and the Son. Also it is written Hus sits at the right hand of the Father.
And of course we can go around and around on this forever and I feel we both will end up believing what we believe.
Gods Blessings
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The Son is indeed distinct from the Father in that He is come in the flesh while the Father is a Spirit without flesh.
But Jesus is the same Spirit in flesh.
So, they are the same Person and at the same time they are distinct Persons from one another.
And therefore, both Trinitarians and those who preach the Oneness of God, are both correct.
However, there are not two separate Gods in Hebrews 1:8-9; for the scriptures are clear to us in teaching us that there is one God (James 2:19).
But Jesus is the same Spirit in flesh.
So, they are the same Person and at the same time they are distinct Persons from one another.
And therefore, both Trinitarians and those who preach the Oneness of God, are both correct.
However, there are not two separate Gods in Hebrews 1:8-9; for the scriptures are clear to us in teaching us that there is one God (James 2:19).
I see what you are saying. I always have believed it is three separate entities but are all one. I guess John 16:27, 28 sums it up.
John 16:27-28 KJV
for the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God. I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
To go and sit at the right hand of God
John 16:27-28 KJV
for the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God. I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
To go and sit at the right hand of God
They are of the same essence / Spirit, even according to the creeds.
The Spirit of God (John 4:23-24) exists inhabiting eternity (Isaiah 57:15) without flesh; and also exists inhabiting time, and inhabiting flesh, in the Person of the Son.
The Father and the Son are the same Spirit / essence;
While the Father is a Spirit without flesh
and the Son is the same Spirit indwelling human flesh.
So, they are the same Person / Spirit...God...
While they are distinct from one another in that one is the original and the other is the incarnation of the original.
The Spirit of God (John 4:23-24) exists inhabiting eternity (Isaiah 57:15) without flesh; and also exists inhabiting time, and inhabiting flesh, in the Person of the Son.
The Father and the Son are the same Spirit / essence;
While the Father is a Spirit without flesh
and the Son is the same Spirit indwelling human flesh.
So, they are the same Person / Spirit...God...
While they are distinct from one another in that one is the original and the other is the incarnation of the original.
The Father and the Son are not the same "entity" and do not carry the same level of authority.
The word "god' causes a lot of confusion... Although in our English translations we see the same word "god" all throughout scripture, these are different words in the ancient language that was revived into what we now know as "Hebrew". In many places in scripture, a better translation for "god" would be "godkind" (Aleim/Elohim).... That word for "god" indicates entities residing in the spiritual realm, rather than "mankind" (Adam)... which reside in the physical. The word by itself does not denote level of authority, but rather an existence in which the physical body of mankind is not needed for.
The words "Aloh/Eloah"... or "Allah/Elah" (found throughout Daniel and Ezra) are the singular forms of these "gods". Although they can be used to refer to The Father, they are not specific to him. Like most places in scripture, you need to understand the context to know who is being referred to. The word translated as "god" that denotes rank more than the other words is the word "AL/EL". This is the title that "IAO/יהוה" referred to Himself as to Abraham (Gen 17:1), Jacob (Gen 35:11) and Moses (Exo 6:3). It means in English just how it used to sound in ancient Hebrew, "ALL".... He is The ALL and is in All things. His many titles reflect that. However, even with that title... it is still used in scripture to refer to gods other than The Most High (Dan 11:36 for example). So again... context is key.
With that said, being called "god" can mean different things... so the Messiah being referred to as "god" does not carry as much weight in scripture as people make it out to be today. The Messiah himself called the Jews that were attempting to stone him "gods" in John 10:34... in which he was referring to Psa 82:6. So is the Messiah "god"... sure, but again the word god does not specify rank. The Son is "God", but not The "Most High" God.
I look at the relationship between The Father and Son similar to how scripture speaks of how the relationship between husband and wife should work: When the Messiah says "I and the Father are one". That does not mean one entity, nor one level of authority... but rather "one" in purpose/message/representation. Likewise, when husband and wife become "one flesh"... this does not mean they are no longer two distinct entities and carry the same level of authority. Either person now just represents the "Family unit". There is still a chain of command though.... Man.. Woman.. Children. We are the children in this scenario... the Messiah being the woman. We have to follow the chain of command... Nobody gets to The Father but through Him.
The word "god' causes a lot of confusion... Although in our English translations we see the same word "god" all throughout scripture, these are different words in the ancient language that was revived into what we now know as "Hebrew". In many places in scripture, a better translation for "god" would be "godkind" (Aleim/Elohim).... That word for "god" indicates entities residing in the spiritual realm, rather than "mankind" (Adam)... which reside in the physical. The word by itself does not denote level of authority, but rather an existence in which the physical body of mankind is not needed for.
The words "Aloh/Eloah"... or "Allah/Elah" (found throughout Daniel and Ezra) are the singular forms of these "gods". Although they can be used to refer to The Father, they are not specific to him. Like most places in scripture, you need to understand the context to know who is being referred to. The word translated as "god" that denotes rank more than the other words is the word "AL/EL". This is the title that "IAO/יהוה" referred to Himself as to Abraham (Gen 17:1), Jacob (Gen 35:11) and Moses (Exo 6:3). It means in English just how it used to sound in ancient Hebrew, "ALL".... He is The ALL and is in All things. His many titles reflect that. However, even with that title... it is still used in scripture to refer to gods other than The Most High (Dan 11:36 for example). So again... context is key.
With that said, being called "god" can mean different things... so the Messiah being referred to as "god" does not carry as much weight in scripture as people make it out to be today. The Messiah himself called the Jews that were attempting to stone him "gods" in John 10:34... in which he was referring to Psa 82:6. So is the Messiah "god"... sure, but again the word god does not specify rank. The Son is "God", but not The "Most High" God.
I look at the relationship between The Father and Son similar to how scripture speaks of how the relationship between husband and wife should work: When the Messiah says "I and the Father are one". That does not mean one entity, nor one level of authority... but rather "one" in purpose/message/representation. Likewise, when husband and wife become "one flesh"... this does not mean they are no longer two distinct entities and carry the same level of authority. Either person now just represents the "Family unit". There is still a chain of command though.... Man.. Woman.. Children. We are the children in this scenario... the Messiah being the woman. We have to follow the chain of command... Nobody gets to The Father but through Him.
When Jesus says, "I and the Father are one" He is referring to the fact that the Father and the Son are the same Spirit, the same Lord, and the same God (1 Corinthians 12:4-6).
In Isaiah 9:6, the "son that was given" shall be given the name of "the everlasting Father"...which means there is a sense in which Jesus is the Father...
and "the mighty God" which is to be compared to Psalms 50:1 (kjv)...
Psa 50:1, [[A Psalm of Asaph.]] The mighty God, even the LORD, hath spoken, and called the earth from the rising of the sun unto the going down thereof.
It indicates that the "son that was given" (Isaiah 9:6) is the LORD (Jehovah).
And, it is also true that our Triune God is one God in three Persons...that He is the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost.
Therefore, Jesus, the Son, is in fact the Most High God, as He is equal to the Father (John 5:18)
and is in effect the same Spirit as the Father (John 4:23-24, John 4:24, Ephesians 4:4); seeing that He is God and seeing that there is one Spirit who is God (John 4:24, Ephesians 4:4).
In Isaiah 9:6, the "son that was given" shall be given the name of "the everlasting Father"...which means there is a sense in which Jesus is the Father...
and "the mighty God" which is to be compared to Psalms 50:1 (kjv)...
Psa 50:1, [[A Psalm of Asaph.]] The mighty God, even the LORD, hath spoken, and called the earth from the rising of the sun unto the going down thereof.
It indicates that the "son that was given" (Isaiah 9:6) is the LORD (Jehovah).
And, it is also true that our Triune God is one God in three Persons...that He is the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost.
Therefore, Jesus, the Son, is in fact the Most High God, as He is equal to the Father (John 5:18)
and is in effect the same Spirit as the Father (John 4:23-24, John 4:24, Ephesians 4:4); seeing that He is God and seeing that there is one Spirit who is God (John 4:24, Ephesians 4:4).
"The everlasting Father" is a bad translation of Isaiah 9:6. "If" you are using the Masoretic text... "Father of eternity" is a better translation. Regardless... This is not the same as being The Most High God.
Psalms 50:1 is an even worse translation. The word for "mighty" there is the word "AL/El" that they translate as "God" most places in the scriptures. They could not translate it as "God" there, because it is right next to the other word they translate as "God".
John 5:18 is the false accusations by the Jews. The Jews thought he broke the sabbath because of their lack of being able to distinguish God's law from man's law. The Jews thought that by saying God was his Father that he was making himself equal with The Father. Those are not the Messiah's words.
Spirit = Energy/Life force... and does not mean Identity/personality/entity. All Spirit is from The Father.... He is ALL and is in all. Saying The Messiah shares the same "spirit" does not mean he shares the same identity.
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