Vaccination?

[Runningman]

You misinterpretet what i said. The Babys were not murdered for to create the vaccine!! This is not true!!
The vaccine against covid was produced in 2020? The 2 fetals were murdered in 1960er /1980er years.

As a result of the murder of babies, the covid vaccine exists because they learned how to make vaccines not derived from fetal stem cell lines by practicing for a long time on fetal stem cells.

Why you began now to judge the vaccine, but not those vaccines which were produced decades before against chickenpox, rabies, polio, Hepatitis A, measles?

I judge those vaccines more harshly than the covid vaccine.

 

[Runningman]

1. By taking a vaccine, are we in moral cooperation with murdering babies?
No. You can be against abortions and still take the vaccine (and modern medicine). I think this question should be expanded to include modern medicine, not limited to vaccines. Someone who is against vaccines would also be against modern treatments as they are very likely to include involvement with fetal cells (such as monoclonal antibodies). Do you think if someone takes living-saving Aspirin, they are in agreement with abortions?

2. By taking a vaccine, are we demonstrating a material connection to evil?
Yes, but one can disagree with the evil. A lot of what we do are ultimately connected to things that go against the Bible. For instance, if you work for an LGBT-friendly organization (which most major corporations/government employers/MILITARY are, as most now celebrate Pride Day for example), does that mean you are LGBT friendly also? Is it possible to be part of an organization but still disagree with it?

3. Though we may not have been the ones to murder the babies to harvest their stem cells, does purchasing vaccine products validate and enable evil?
No. The fetuses were not aborted for purposes of creating the vaccines (and other modern medicine). Do you think if a church uses "bad" money donated to them to spread the Gospel (to clarify, the church wasn't involved the evil activity, but money donated to them is linked to "bad" stuff), they are validating evil? Similarly, with vaccines, something bad could be used for good.

4. Is taking a vaccine being in agreement with murdering babies?
This question is same/similar to question 1. No, you can still be against current and future abortions and still take the vaccine (and other modern medicine).

5. Is there a moral alternative to the vaccine?
The moral alternative would be take a treatment that does not involve fetal cells AND is effective. However, if such a treatment is not available (either medically available, or blocked by the government, or virtually impossible to access), then I believe taking the vaccine is fine as it is life-saving. Even though I believe the efficacy of the vaccine is not great (especially with Delta variant), I still believe it is life-saving either through direct or indirect contact.

If yes, then should the vaccine still be an option?

6. If taking a vaccine is a sin, (many Christians think it is) will it create scandal within the church for church members to take it?
Yes, there will be a scandal if one part thinks something is a major sin, and another part doesn't.

Thanks for answering those questions. While I may disagree with most of what you said, it helps to understand why other people believe what they do, especially after directly answering some questions about moral theology. I found your answers useful. However, cross-examination of your answers has, predictably, surfaced some inconsistencies.

My view is that someone can completely disagree with something and still be an accomplice to or an accessory to evil. For example, purchasing vaccines enables and validates a material connection to evil, even though you said one can disagree with the evil. This is only one inconsistency and I am sure there are many in your reply.

The inconsistency explained: it's impossible to disagree with evil while simultaneously being an accomplice/accessory to evil through actions.

 

[Runningman]

Acts 17:30-31
30And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

 

[PennEd]

 

[Sipsey]

Thanks for answering those questions. While I may disagree with most of what you said, it helps to understand why other people believe what they do, especially after directly answering some questions about moral theology. I found your answers useful. However, cross-examination of your answers has, predictably, surfaced some inconsistencies.

My view is that someone can completely disagree with something and still be an accomplice to or an accessory to evil. For example, purchasing vaccines enables and validates a material connection to evil, even though you said one can disagree with the evil. This is only one inconsistency and I am sure there are many in your reply.

The inconsistency explained: it's impossible to disagree with evil while simultaneously being an accomplice/accessory to evil through actions.

It is interesting to see condemnation for others, while claiming the moral high-ground. Do you pay taxes? I‘ll leave it at that.

 

[Aidan1]

Why is the vax being pushed so hard?
Why have all the people that speak against the vax been banded from the media?
Why is scaremongering being used?
Why are our freedoms being striped away?
Why is the vax the only solution to freedom?
Why is the truth being hidden?

The vax is the solution to all the problems = because very few are looking at the truth. Very few are seeing the real facts and are being deceived.

Why the vax was made?
Because of an virus, which is high infectious, new and nobody knows how worse it will be. We have the pictures from New York and north Italy. Till today 4.550000 people died because of Corona and not only old people.
Who takes your freedom? What is freedom. To do what i want on the cost of others?
The vax is not the guarant for freedom, but for an certain % of protection from the virus and and chance for people to overlive the virus, what they maby not do without the vax.
Which truth is hidden?
About scaremongering. If you would put all the conspiracy theorys unprofed in the mainmedias and TV. What then is scaremongering? Do you would like that the people get grazy?

 

[Runningman]

It is interesting to see condemnation for others, while claiming the moral high-ground. Do you pay taxes? I‘ll leave it at that.

I'm just speaking what I think is true about the vaccine. As I stated elsewhere, I do think the vaccine is a moral gray area. I've chosen my side, but I don't condemn anyone for getting a vaccine.

It's possible I could even change my mind about vaccines, but that's why we're having these discussions. So far I don't see a good reason to get a vaccine. I need to do some international traveling soon and I have considered getting the vaccine just to simplify that process. However, I will not accept getting a vaccine as an act of "loving thy neighbor as thyself." The vaccine is totally about selfish reasons, let's be honest!

We can disagree and be honest without actually condemning anyone, as if my judgment actually mattered. What you do is between you and God, not me.

 

[iamsoandso]

"Even though graphene oxide is made with the same atoms as our organs, tissues and cells, its bi-dimensional nature causes unique interactions with blood proteins and biological membranes and can lead to severe effects like thrombogenicity and immune cell activation." See https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32254085/

I don't like much of the nano technology out there though I use myself one called nano soma that restores DNA to what it should be and removes what shouidn't be there. My wife four months ago didn't think I would make it but three days after starting to use it my health came back up. I had severe allergy levels affecting lungs and bowels and the drug dealer told me that 100 was considered high for allergies and that I had 600 lol. The inventor hasn't aged in ten years now. Interesting tech.

lol, now you've got me reading about nano soma (interesting), I agree I remember laying in the clinic taking radiation treatments on the machine they use and while i was all strapped down I would just pray. The first time they gave me a PET scan they explained they were going to put me in a lead booth and give me a radioactive injection. The guy who did it came in with big thick gloves and a lead apron on carrying a cylinder and gave it to me in an iv port and then shut the door and left. Anyway the whole process of cancer treatment radiation,chemo,the scans ect. really made me wonder if I should have just let the cancer run it's coarse(things I prayed about through it all/moral aspects)... I found a this video about nano soma very interesting https://www.nanosoma.net/

 

[Gideon300]

The vax phanatics don’t care.

It doesn’t matter how much factual scientific data you throw at them , they are going to defend the lethal injection to the bitter end.

Hah. Anti vaxxers would not know a fact if they tripped over it in the street. I've never heard so much baseless speculation in my 70 years on this earth. I have more respect for evolutionists than the anti vax brigade. And I have no respect for the theory of evolution.

I've had the jab. I'm still here. It is not lethal.

 

[Gideon300]

"Even though graphene oxide is made with the same atoms as our organs, tissues and cells, its bi-dimensional nature causes unique interactions with blood proteins and biological membranes and can lead to severe effects like thrombogenicity and immune cell activation." See https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32254085/

I don't like much of the nano technology out there though I use myself one called nano soma that restores DNA to what it should be and removes what shouidn't be there. My wife four months ago didn't think I would make it but three days after starting to use it my health came back up. I had severe allergy levels affecting lungs and bowels and the drug dealer told me that 100 was considered high for allergies and that I had 600 lol. The inventor hasn't aged in ten years now. Interesting tech.

Examples?

Virtually every word spoken against COVID vaccination. Simple one: lethal injection. I'm alive to prove that statement false.

 

[iamsoandso]

I'm just speaking what I think is true about the vaccine. As I stated elsewhere, I do think the vaccine is a moral gray area. I've chosen my side, but I don't condemn anyone for getting a vaccine.

It's possible I could even change my mind about vaccines, but that's why we're having these discussions. So far I don't see a good reason to get a vaccine. I need to do some international traveling soon and I have considered getting the vaccine just to simplify that process. However, I will not accept getting a vaccine as an act of "loving thy neighbor as thyself." The vaccine is totally about selfish reasons, let's be honest!

We can disagree and be honest without actually condemning anyone, as if my judgment actually mattered. What you do is between you and God, not me.

Yes if not and we split hairs it would be like us saying anyone who buys the stuff from Walmart,the dollar stores,Kmart ect. all are connected to and support slavery because we know that they use forced labor in China,Vietnam ect. to make them.

 

[Moses_Young]

This my friends, as an extreme example of a conspiracy theory.

Extremely true...

 

[JohnDB]

The newest and best variant stopping vaccines should be ready in about a year. There will be some variant boosters available this winter/spring.

Maybe by this time next year the best vaccine of all will be ready based upon the latest discovery of the best antibody. And then we can begin to discover the true damage this virus has done to the world.

 

[Sipsey]

lol, now you've got me reading about nano soma (interesting), I agree I remember laying in the clinic taking radiation treatments on the machine they use and while i was all strapped down I would just pray. The first time they gave me a PET scan they explained they were going to put me in a lead booth and give me a radioactive injection. The guy who did it came in with big thick gloves and a lead apron on carrying a cylinder and gave it to me in an iv port and then shut the door and left. Anyway the whole process of cancer treatment radiation,chemo,the scans ect. really made me wonder if I should have just let the cancer run it's coarse(things I prayed about through it all/moral aspects)... I found a this video about nano soma very interesting https://www.nanosoma.net/

I can somewhat relate to your situation. When my grandson was three he was diagnosed with AML. The stuff they filled him with to stop the cancer makes the vax ingredients look mild. A relapse, bone marrow transplant and more chemo put the cancer at bay.

The moral dilemma all Christians face is that if God wants me cured, He will perform a miracle. Miracles come in all forms, we need only eyes to see.

 

[PennEd]

Hah. Anti vaxxers would not know a fact if they tripped over it in the street. I've never heard so much baseless speculation in my 70 years on this earth. I have more respect for evolutionists than the anti vax brigade. And I have no respect for the theory of evolution.

I've had the jab. I'm still here. It is not lethal.

Strange that you use evolution to make the exact same point I have been making.

The world embraces, promotes, and indoctrinates, everyone with evolution, and calls those who expose the lies of that philosophy fools, and dangerous fundamentalists.

The world embraces, promotes, and indoctrinates, everyone that the gene therapy posing as a vaccine, is the savior of people and freedom alike, and calls those who expose the lies of that philosophy fools, and dangerous to society.

You have fully, and joyfully embraced the world’s lies, and the world system.

That entity that spends day and night, 365 days a year, CONSPIRING against humanity and especially God’s Elect, is who you are blindly supporting.

 

[iamsoandso]

Hah. Anti vaxxers would not know a fact if they tripped over it in the street. I've never heard so much baseless speculation in my 70 years on this earth. I have more respect for evolutionists than the anti vax brigade. And I have no respect for the theory of evolution.

I've had the jab. I'm still here. It is not lethal.

I'm not a vaxer or anti-vaxer but I do find the discussion fascinating. Why is that it seems similar to the debates with those who say the Sabbath is to be followed. I often wonder how they get to Church on yesterday without driving(spark plugs=fire) or if they let their servants rest from sundown Friday till sundown Saturday by having their utilities cut off and don't have A/C,electricity ect. in their Churches. In the same similar manner there is the same issue over this vaccine in that if people are drawing the line at the C-19 vaccines then what about the medicines for diabetes,blood pressure,Cancer ect. are we saying that we should refuse to go to the doctors at all and to refuse to take every form of modern medication?

 

[iamsoandso]

I can somewhat relate to your situation. When my grandson was three he was diagnosed with AML. The stuff they filled him with to stop the cancer makes the vax ingredients look mild. A relapse, bone marrow transplant and more chemo put the cancer at bay.

The moral dilemma all Christians face is that if God wants me cured, He will perform a miracle. Miracles come in all forms, we need only eyes to see.

Yes it's sort of like swallowing a gnat worrying about cleaning the cup,,,,maybe everyone's being told to focus on the vaccine to so they never think to look at all the other medicines.

 

[Sipsey]

Yes it's sort of like swallowing a gnat worrying about cleaning the cup,,,,maybe everyone's being told to focus on the vaccine to so they never think to look at all the other medicines.

Indeed, there are so many distractions of distractions that if one is not careful, they will slide into a ditch.

 

[iamsoandso]

Indeed, there are so many distractions of distractions that if one is not careful, they will slide into a ditch.

Yes it's quite similar to the news stories about the court cases where people would not give their children their diabetes medication or cancer treatment. Maybe we shouldn't receive any blood transfusions like the JW's say,,,maybe we should start with the vaccines and make a list of medications and treatments that are so to speak Kosher...

 

[Aidan1]

As a result of the murder of babies, the covid vaccine exists because they learned how to make vaccines not derived from fetal stem cell lines by practicing for a long time on fetal stem cells.



I judge those vaccines more harshly than the covid vaccine.

Why then you did not made this to an thread years before?
But i suppose you never had polio or rabies or Hepatitis A.