How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

[cv5]

lol, of course he is. Christ's bride isn't one person but a large group of people ie: virgins plural.

That response....comes as the result of shoddy scholarship. TDW has just schooled you man. The thing is...are you willing to RECEIVE the lesson?

 

[cv5]

What are you looking for? You want me to answer some questions within parameters I don't agree to.
ie: There is a "church-age" cut off point before tribulation begins.

I'm sorry there are no pictures of gatherings & happy Bible meetings. Or a TV evengelist.
Or anyone on a street corner preaching a floaty feel-good gospel message in The Revelation.

You'll have to make due with:
Those who "die in The Lord"
Saints who are asked to endure this unique period of Church history.
Those who are being chased by the enraged dragon,
Who "keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus"
Martyrs (witnesses unto death) No one witnesses for the gospel more than those willing to die for it.
People coming out of the great tribulation. They have to be in tribulation in order to come out of it.

Rev 1:9
I, John, your brother and companion in the suffering and kingdom and patient endurance that are ours in Jesus,
was on the island of Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.

Rev 12:11
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

If you don't believe that these are part of The Body of Christ then you believe in a different gospel than I do.
Nothing witnesses Jesus more powerfully than the death & resurrection of the saints. And the saints ARE the church.

"You want me to answer some questions within parameters I don't agree to."
Lucy....how in the world is that not prejudicial?

As for me, I was not a pre-tribber to start with and then went hunting for (and ignoring) Scriptures to accommodate my views.

 

[Aaron56]

What are you looking for? You want me to answer some questions within parameters I don't agree to.
ie: There is a "church-age" cut off point before tribulation begins.

I'm sorry there are no pictures of gatherings & happy Bible meetings. Or a TV evengelist.
Or anyone on a street corner preaching a floaty feel-good gospel message in The Revelation.

You'll have to make due with:
Those who "die in The Lord"
Saints who are asked to endure this unique period of Church history.
Those who are being chased by the enraged dragon,
Who "keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus"
Martyrs (witnesses unto death) No one witnesses for the gospel more than those willing to die for it.
People coming out of the great tribulation. They have to be in tribulation in order to come out of it.

Rev 1:9
I, John, your brother and companion in the suffering and kingdom and patient endurance that are ours in Jesus,
was on the island of Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.

Rev 12:11
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

If you don't believe that these are part of The Body of Christ then you believe in a different gospel than I do.
Nothing witnesses Jesus more powerfully than the death & resurrection of the saints. And the saints ARE the church.

I was waiting on a

 

[Nehemiah6]

It appears to me the post tribbers have taken the wrong fork in the road. And then another one and another one and another one. And then they are left in the deep dark woods of Biblical ignorance. The only way out is to carefully retrace your steps and get back to where you started. And then do it all over again.

You are correct. But no retracing of steps if there is wilful ignorance to begin with.

 

[cv5]

I was waiting on a

Silly memes are not answers buddy. Why is it the post-tribbers have none, and pre-tribbers have them ALL?

You know...like the obvious fact of the identity of the 24 elders. And why the Church is nowhere to be found or shown preaching after the opening of the very first seal.

I mean DavidTree thinks that Matt 23:39 is a declaration that will be made by Christians. Uttery preposterous......

 

[ewq1938]

That response....comes as the result of shoddy scholarship.

No, it's biblical scholarship. Anything else is wrong and amateur.

 

[Yahshua]

Silly memes are not answers buddy. Why is it the post-tribbers have none, and pre-tribbers have them ALL?

You know...like the obvious fact of the identity of the 24 elders. And why the Church is nowhere to be found or shown preaching after the opening of the very first seal.

I mean DavidTree thinks that Matt 23:39 is a declaration that will be made by Christians. Uttery preposterous......

Can we at least post tribbles?

 

[DavidTree]

You are correct. But no retracing of steps if there is wilful ignorance to begin with.

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
Therefore comfort one another with these words.

 

[DavidTree]

Hi there!


I agree!
@DavidTree your not reading TDW's posts, just by the way your responding, incomplete with opinions.
He IS verifying Scripture with Scripture. OT symbology and NT symbology.

Answer the man..

God Bless

Adding to and taking away fro Scripture is not comparing scripture to scripture

The First Resurrection is in Revelation ch 20 - no pre-trib - stop believing and promoting a lie

 

[cv5]

This is the best answer so far. We really wont know for sure until it happens. I hope it is pre trib, I don't fancy being beheaded but if so, it will probably be quick.

Just to let you know they have done animal studies. Evidently unconsciousness occurs in about 3 seconds. Somewhere between 2.5 and 3.2 seconds......

 

[cv5]

Hi, I'm in the UK. Although the pretrib thing allegedlly started here, it seems to have stuck mainly in the US.
Largely because it is marketed very well on telly and it appeals to a comfortable church.
It isn't taught outside the Western church apart from some small pockets where missionaries have introduced it.

These are all doctrines of men. The pretrib provoked the need for other doctrines in an attempt to correct the pretrib error.
No one teaches that the saints are subject to the wrath of God.

The bible teaches of the 2nd coming of Jesus in glory and the resurrection event that occurs at that time. Clearly stated.
The pretrib position has done it's best to confuse the church by framing the transformation of the living as though it were
something wholly separate from the resurrection. The Biblical position is that we are ALL resurrected.
The dead receive their immortal bodies first then the still living are changed together with them. 1Thess 4:13-18

Pretrib doctrine is focussed on SELF and is largely concerned with entitlements of a divided "church".
The Bible is focussed on Jesus and his revelation to all mankind. God's taking of the earth is woven deep into prophecy.
It didn't just begin with the New Testament. Most of the detail of Jesus' return is found in the OT.

I find too much study of all the conflicting positions on timing of "rapture" can distract from actual Bible study.
If you aren't careful, you can end up well grounded in a lot of various religious doctrine and still have little
understanding of prophecy.

Conflicting positions on the timing of the rapture? No you've got that all wrong. Scripture is impeccably clear on the matter. It occurs before the man of sin is revealed.....at the opening of seal number one. Before the 70th week of Daniel begins. In other words pre-trib.

 

[ewq1938]

Conflicting positions on the timing of the rapture? No you've got that all wrong. Scripture is impeccably clear on the matter. It occurs before the man of sin is revealed.....at the opening of seal number one.

Pure confusion. It says the APOSTASY happens before the revealing of man of sin, not the RAPTURE. If you want to depart in the Apostasy, go right ahead. The rest of us will partiently endure in faith, not becoming Apostates, and wait for real rapture when the great trib has ended.

 

[cv5]

The plain teaching of scripture is that the resurrection occurs at the time Jesus is revealed in glory.
His return to earth is visible and undeniable to all.

Are you denying that the harpazo occurs at the time of the resurrection?

Or are you claiming that the resurrection occurs before the return of Jesus?

You just got schooled my dear. With some top-notch scholarship. And tragically you have rejected it.

On the other hand I have received this important word study and now understand this teaching and have fully appropriated it. God willing should the opportunity arise, I shall pass it on to others for their edification.

 

[cv5]

I don't recall you asking that. I normally ignore your sloppy posts.

Sloppy to many, yet sublime to others my dear.....
Yes at times they make my head hurt......but in a good way.....

 

[DavidTree]

You just got schooled my dear. With some top-notch scholarship. And tragically you have rejected it.

On the other hand I have received this important word study and now understand this teaching and have fully appropriated it. God willing should the opportunity arise, I shall pass it on to others for their edification.

Scholarship and false teaching by adding to God's words will certainly bring His full attention when you stand before Him.

i noticed that you never accepted the words of our Lord in 1 Thessalonians ch 4 and in Revelation ch 6 and ch 20.

We, who trust and believe His words, seek not the praises of men.

 

[GaryA]

Gary.......I'm just trying to get a straight answer. Yes I'm very well aware of the different flavors of those theories. But to get back to the point I am asking if, in your opinion, the 70th week of Daniel has been fulfilled 2000, years ago, running concurrent with the crucifixion.

If I should "answer" this post like you generally tend to "answer" my posts, it would probably go something like this:

So - what exactly does 'cv5' mean anyway?

 

[cv5]

Scholarship and false teaching by adding to God's words will certainly bring His full attention when you stand before Him.

i noticed that you never accepted the words of our Lord in 1 Thessalonians ch 4 and in Revelation ch 6 and ch 20.

We, who trust and believe His words, seek not the praises of men.

I have yet to see any evidence at all, not even the slightest glimmer, that would convince me that you possess an understanding of the true richness and glorious import of those Scriptures in the fullness of their context.

And to make matters worse you have TDW as your own personal tutor....FREE OF CHARGE, on call 24 seven. And you still don't get it....!

 

[cv5]

If I should "answer" this post like you generally tend to "answer" my posts, it would probably go something like this:

So - what exactly does 'cv5' mean anyway?

Sounds like you're out of answers eh? Yes, pre-tribbers have an uncanny knack of disarming their adversaries rather quickly.

This phenomenon happens inevitably on every single rapture thread on Christian chat. Nothing new under the sun.

 

[GaryA]

Sounds like you're out of answers eh? Yes, pre-tribbers have an uncanny knack of disarming their adversaries rather quickly.

This phenomenon happens inevitably on every single rapture thread on Christian chat. Nothing new under the sun.

See what I mean?

 

[GaryA]

Sounds like you're out of answers eh?

No - but you [surely] have seen me post the "straight answer" you were asking about several times by now...

So - what kind of game are you playing?

(You must be; otherwise, you are REALLY not paying attention...?)