How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Lol......Lucy that is as close to non-answer as is conceivable. Which under the circumstances is entirely understandable.

Okay here's another question: Who does the Bible say is doing the preaching....after the seals are broken?

And an ancillary question to the above: Has the great commission to the Church been abandoned after the seals have been opened? Because there is zero evidence that the Church is doing any preaching in that span of time.......or is it anywhere to be found for that matter.

You aren't going to strong-arm me into accepting an assumption based on extra-biblical doctrine.
The church is shown in Revelation but you prefer a church that is narrowly defined and truncated by some strange teaching.
Martyrs (witnesses) and pray-ers cannot be accused of -abandoning their commission.

One cannot "die in The Lord" if they are not part of the church.

 

[cv5]

Another interesting note......the term Lord is used something like 90 times in the book of Acts. The terms Savior is used twice I think. And in every case in all of the NT the terms are always in the order of first Lord and then Savior.

The point is that Jesus must be received firstly as Lord, the commander the one who has sovereign authority the one who is in control. No Lordship no salvation.

Yes....the term "Lord" is used about 90 times to refer to Jesus (not counting OT quotes). Savior used twice. And very interestingly, the two terms are never used together in the book of Acts. However the terms "archēgos " and "sōtēr " ARE used together in that order.

Sorry couldn't resist getting off topic. Just some interesting Biblical facts for the board.

 

[cv5]

You aren't going to strong-arm me into accepting an assumption based on extra-biblical doctrine.
The church is shown in Revelation but you prefer a church that is narrowly defined and truncated by some strange teaching.
Martyrs (witnesses) and pray-ers cannot be accused of -abandoning their commission.

One cannot "die in The Lord" if they are not part of the church.

Lucy....THAT is an example of what is known as "not very artful dodging". I see it all the time from post-tribbers. They hear something they don't like or cannot answer....the dodge bob and weave in a way that would make Muhammad Ali envious.

Anyhow.....can any other post-tribber please satisfy my inquiries? They are after all crucial to an accurate understanding the book of Revelation.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Lucy....THAT is an example of what is known as "not very artful dodging". I see it all the time from post-tribbers. They hear something they don't like or cannot answer....the dodge bob and weave in a way that would make Muhammad Ali envious.

Anyhow.....can any other post-tribber please satisfy my inquiries? They are after all crucial to an accurate understanding the book of Revelation.

I didn't dodge anything. My original explanation was more than adequate.

You're just trying typical left-behinder-bullying tactics and insults because a point of doctrine is debunked.

 

[cv5]

You aren't going to strong-arm me into accepting an assumption based on extra-biblical doctrine.
The church is shown in Revelation but you prefer a church that is narrowly defined and truncated by some strange teaching.
Martyrs (witnesses) and pray-ers cannot be accused of -abandoning their commission.

One cannot "die in The Lord" if they are not part of the church.

Lucy....THAT is an example of what is known as "not very artful dodging". I see it all the time from post-tribbers. They hear something they don't like or cannot answer....the dodge bob and weave in a way that would make Muhammad Ali envious.

Anyhoo.....can any other post-tribber please satisfy my inquiries?

You aren't going to strong-arm me into accepting an assumption based on extra-biblical doctrine.
The church is shown in Revelation but you prefer a church that is narrowly defined and truncated by some strange teaching.
Martyrs (witnesses) and pray-ers cannot be accused of -abandoning their commission.

One cannot "die in The Lord" if they are not part of the church.

Its not extra-biblical to realize and NECESSARILY apply the Jewish wedding ritual to the phenomenon of the Church, the Bride and its own peculiar eschatology......

 

[cv5]

I didn't dodge anything. My original explanation was more than adequate.

You're just trying typical left-behinder-bullying tactics and insults because a point of doctrine is debunked.

Lol....no not really. I would just like some honest answers. Hard to come by if post-tribbers have no choice but to run away and hide.....

 

[DavidTree]

Okay, here is a question for you buddy:
Who exactly is going to (yet future) utter that statement? Everybody and anybody? Christians? Israelites? Who exactly?

Bible 101 - The individuals whom God will call - He still makes long distance calls.
He has this 7G technology called the HS7 that can reach anyone, of any tribe tongue and nation, at anytime, anywhere 24/7.

When He makes the Call, just as His Long Distance Provider called Prophecy has foretold us - 1/3 of the earthly nation of Israel will pick up and be saved.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ 27 And this is My covenant with them when I take away their sins.” [See also Isaiah 27:9 and context (esp. vv.12-13)] 28 Regarding the gospel, they are enemies on your account; but regarding election [/THE election], they are loved on account of the patriarchs.
29 For God’s gifts [/the gifts] and His call [/the call] are irrevocable.

 

[cv5]

Bible 101 - The individuals whom God will call - He still makes long distance calls.
He has this 7G technology called the HS7 that can reach anyone, of any tribe tongue and nation, at anytime, anywhere 24/7.

When He makes the Call, just as His Long Distance Provider called Prophecy has foretold us - 1/3 of the earthly nation of Israel will pick up and be saved.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

So no Christians in on this? Gentiles? Exclusively Israelites?

 

[DavidTree]

So no Christians in on this? Gentiles? Exclusively Israelites?

Behold, a day of the LORD is coming when your plunder will be divided in your presence. For I will gather all the nations for battle against Jerusalem, and the city will be captured, the houses looted, and the women ravished. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be removed from the city.

Then the LORD will go out to fight against those nations, as He fights in the day of battle. On that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half the mountain moving to the north and half to the south. You will flee by My mountain valley, for it will extend to Azal. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with Him.

This Prophecy, which our Lord Jesus Christ spoke to His Bride in Matt 24 & 25 rebukes the error of pre-trib.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

This Prophecy, which our Lord Jesus Christ spoke to His Bride in Matt 24 & 25 [...]

If that is His "Bride," then who are you saying is identified as the "TEN VirginS [PLURAL]" (or even the "FIVE [wise] VirginS [PLURAL]") in Matt 25:1-13?? (and where Matt24:42-51 is parallel to Lk12:35-37,38,40,42-44 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding"... THEN the meal [G347])


Surely He's not coming to "MARRY" PLURAL "virginS," wouldn't you agree??

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ That's one "sick" and wacky doctrine, I tell ya...







[But yet there's this: "... DECLARING the END... FROM the BEGINNING" ]

 

[DavidTree]

If that is His "Bride," then who are you saying is identified as the "TEN VirginS [PLURAL]" (or even the "FIVE [wise] VirginS [PLURAL]") in Matt 25:1-13?? (and where Matt24:42-51 is parallel to Lk12:35-37,38,40,42-44 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding"... THEN the meal [G347])


Surely He's not coming to "MARRY" PLURAL "virginS," wouldn't you agree??

Correct - He is not marrying a literal 5 virgins who have their Lamps Filled - this is a parable - He is Marrying His Bride -u n me.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Correct - He is not marrying a literal 5 virgins who have their Lamps Filled - this is a parable - He is Marrying His Bride.

The parable is not about the "Bride" (nowhere to be found in these passages); and this parable is about "the wedding FEAST / SUPPER" that the "5 wise" will go in "with [G3326 ACCOMPANYING] Him" (NOT "WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-with] Him" as is said regarding US)... and the Matt25 passage pertains to (as v.1 states) "the kingdom OF THE heavenS" (that's earthly-located... and has nothing whatsoever to do with "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]"), etc etc...

Plus how Matt24:42-51 is parallel with Lk12:35-37,38,40 (etc, as I mentioned), which passage pertains to the "IN THE NIGHT" lighting of the LAMPS (the "IN THE NIGHT" time period that WE / the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" will not step ONE FOOT INTO... Rather, it is THEY who will LIGHT THE LAMPS [pertaining to the "NIGHT WATCHES"] following "our Rapture" when they are IN the Trib yrs / the "IN THE NIGHT / DARK / DARKNESS" time period)...Lk12 saying "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding" (i.e. AS ALREADY-WED... Not to BE WED, here in these passages)

 

[DavidTree]

What are you talking about?

They "SAY" this prior to His "RETURN" to the earth Rev19.

See my posts also about the parallels between this phrase "not see me... until" ^ as used elsewhere in Scripture and how it is used in that case (as a TYPE)... and what all that shows.

IOW, it seems to me that you are suggesting that they "SAY" this at the precise moment of His "RETURN" to the earth in Rev19, like, AS THEY "SEE" Him COMING (and we're talking, the believing remnant... not those who will "mourn" at that point), is this what you are thinking?
I'm saying, it's not then, but that they "say" this PRIOR to that point (and recall what I'd said previously about this "G3708" word [translated here as "shall you see [active G3708]," in this text--SAME word as used in Acts 22:14 & 15, regarding Paul... about Jesus... (but while Jesus was still UP IN HEAVEN, having already previously ascended, at that point)])

You couldn't resist twisting Scripture of His return - could you.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ @DavidTree , here's what I asked you:

IOW, it seems to me that you are suggesting that they "SAY" this at the precise moment of His "RETURN" to the earth in Rev19, like, AS THEY "SEE" Him COMING (and we're talking, the believing remnant... not those who will "mourn" at that point), is this what you are thinking?

...are you suggesting that they "come to faith in Christ" AT THAT POINT IN THE CHRONOLOGY (and ONLY THEN)??


[including, say, the "144,000" (of each of the "tribes of Israel" listed there in chpt 7)... who are said to be "servants of our God" per 7:4]

 

[cv5]

Behold, a day of the LORD is coming when your plunder will be divided in your presence. For I will gather all the nations for battle against Jerusalem, and the city will be captured, the houses looted, and the women ravished. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be removed from the city.

Then the LORD will go out to fight against those nations, as He fights in the day of battle. On that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half the mountain moving to the north and half to the south. You will flee by My mountain valley, for it will extend to Azal. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with Him.

This Prophecy, which our Lord Jesus Christ spoke to His Bride in Matt 24 & 25 rebukes the error of pre-trib.

So no Christians in on this? Gentiles? Exclusively Israelites?

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Lol....no not really. I would just like some honest answers. Hard to come by if post-tribbers have no choice but to run away and hide.....

What are you looking for? You want me to answer some questions within parameters I don't agree to.
ie: There is a "church-age" cut off point before tribulation begins.

I'm sorry there are no pictures of gatherings & happy Bible meetings. Or a TV evengelist.
Or anyone on a street corner preaching a floaty feel-good gospel message in The Revelation.

You'll have to make due with:
Those who "die in The Lord"
Saints who are asked to endure this unique period of Church history.
Those who are being chased by the enraged dragon,
Who "keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus"
Martyrs (witnesses unto death) No one witnesses for the gospel more than those willing to die for it.
People coming out of the great tribulation. They have to be in tribulation in order to come out of it.

Rev 1:9
I, John, your brother and companion in the suffering and kingdom and patient endurance that are ours in Jesus,
was on the island of Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.

Rev 12:11
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

If you don't believe that these are part of The Body of Christ then you believe in a different gospel than I do.
Nothing witnesses Jesus more powerfully than the death & resurrection of the saints. And the saints ARE the church.

 

[ewq1938]

If that is His "Bride," then who are you saying is identified as the "TEN VirginS [PLURAL]" (or even the "FIVE [wise] VirginS [PLURAL]") in Matt 25:1-13?? (and where Matt24:42-51 is parallel to Lk12:35-37,38,40,42-44 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding"... THEN the meal [G347])


Surely He's not coming to "MARRY" PLURAL "virginS," wouldn't you agree??

lol, of course he is. Christ's bride isn't one person but a large group of people ie: virgins plural.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

lol, of course he is. Christ's bride isn't one person but a large group of people ie: virgins plural.

^ rather, this: "For I am jealous over you [corporate plural 'you'] with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you [corporate plural 'you'] to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin [SINGULAR] to Christ." 2Cor11:2


This is talking about the "PRESENT" thing, i.e. pertaining to the "MARRIAGE" itself (that is, "A CHASTE VIRGIN [SINGULAR]");


...whereas the "10 / 5 VirginS [PLURAL]" parable pertains to "the wedding FEAST / SUPPER" (aka the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom, commencing upon His "RETURN" to the earth, Rev19, "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding" [per Lk12:35-38] as an ALREADY-WED "Bridegroom," not "TO BE WED" in this context of Matt25:1-13. NO.)

There is NO "Bride / Wife [SINGULAR]" being referenced in these passages (the parable in Matt25... nor in the Lk12:35-38,40,42-48 passage parallel with Matt24:42-51 of the Olivet Discourse. Zero, nada, zip. [Same for other passages in the gospels covering the same subject ; these concern His "RETURN" to the earth--no one is lifting off the earth, at that point])