Doctrine of Unconditional Election

[1ofthem]

You should have included the preceding verse too

[Rom 8:1 KJV] 1 [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

[Rom 8:2 KJV] 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

So, the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus ITSELF (and not by anything Paul, or anyone else could do) set them free from the
law of sin and death

This is referring to the saved by grace through "FAITH"

And who are they that it is referring to?

John 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

And what must we do to receive Him and be saved?

Romans 10
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

 

[rogerg]

Then Jesus wasted his breath in John 3, 4, 5, and 6.

You also hold yourself as special. Because God chose you and not your nieghbor.

Which verses?

Regarding myself, if I am saved I would be the least worthy person ever to receive it.

 

[rogerg]

his is referring to the saved by grace through "FAITH"

And who are they that it is referring to?

Yes, but it is by Christ's faith that we are saved, not our faith. Please read closely:

[Gal 2:16 KJV]
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Christ was perfectly faithful and successful to the Father in all that He was given by the Father to accomplish. Christ
is the Savior, we are not.

 

[1ofthem]

Exactly as many as He wanted in order to demonstrate His power. Here I'll repost:

[Rom 9:17 KJV] 17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

How do you interpret that verse?

God's foreknowledge. Foreknowledge doesn't mean He forced Pharoah to be disobedient...It means that God knew what Pharoah would do and still allowed Pharoah to continue to rise to power and exert his own free will. To the which, God then showed his power and what happens when men don't accept His corrections and are disobedient and Go up against Him.

 

[1ofthem]

Yes, but it is by Christ's faith that we are saved, not our faith. Please read closely:

[Gal 2:16 KJV]
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Christ was perfectly faithful and successful to the Father in all that He was given by the Father to accomplish. Christ
is the Savior, we are not.

It is "faith in Christ" that saves us.

It is not Christ's faith that saves us. That doesn't make any sense. He came so that whosoever will believe in Him shall be saved.

He gives men the opportunity to believe in Him and be saved. He doesn't force any or do the believing for any.

 

[rogerg]

Romans 10
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

You missed a very important verse:

[Rom 10:10 KJV]
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

but, we are informed

[Jer 17:9 KJV]
9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?

This tells us that of ourselves we can never believe because our natural hearts are deceitful and wicked. It has been
sold under sin

 

[rogerg]

God's foreknowledge. Foreknowledge doesn't mean He forced Pharoah to be disobedient...It means that God knew what Pharoah would do and still allowed Pharoah to continue to rise to power and exert his own free will. To the which, God then showed his power and what happens when men don't accept His corrections and are disobedient and Go up against Him.

[Exo 7:13 KJV]
13 And he hardened Pharaoh's heart, that he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said.
[Exo 10:20, 27 KJV]
20 But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go. ...
27 But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he would not let them go.
[Exo 11:10 KJV]
10 And Moses and Aaron did all these wonders before Pharaoh: and the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go out of his land.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'm sorry my friend but we were discussing the verse in John 12:40. Not the in OT

and you did not prove your point.

We use the bible as a whole to interpret all of scripture.

 

[rogerg]

It is "faith in Christ" that saves us.

It is not Christ's faith that saves us. That doesn't make any sense. He came so that whosoever will believe in Him shall be saved.

He gives men the opportunity to believe in Him and be saved. He doesn't force any or do the believing for any.

No our faith is a gift given through the fruit of the Holy Spirit as a result of becoming born again. Remember,
Christ is the Savior, we are not


[Gal 5:22 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

 

[rogerg]

and you did not prove your point.

We use the bible as a whole to interpret all of scripture.

Definitely but you need to be talking about the same topic in all the verses you quote for that direction to be meaningful

 

[1ofthem]

You missed a very important verse:

[Rom 10:10 KJV]
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

but, we are informed

[Jer 17:9 KJV]
9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?

This tells us that of ourselves we can never believe because our natural hearts are deceitful and wicked. It has been
sold under sin

Once again Jesus came to this earth, lived, died, was buried, and resurrected for our sins. He then went to sit down in heavenly places at God's right hand and sent the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost convicts the world of sin.

So I'd say the Holy Ghost through the word of God lights up the way to Jesus for everyone... giving all a chance. And whosoever chooses to accept Jesus and have faith in Him will be saved.

And Jesus also said if I be lifted up I will draw all men unto me.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is referring to the saved by grace through "FAITH"

And who are they that it is referring to?

John 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

And what must we do to receive Him and be saved?

Romans 10
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Amen

The apostle John in so many places has shown we must make a decision.

 

[LuvofChrist]

if I can not believe what God is showing me in my dead state, then I can not be justified

If I can not be justified, I can not be made alive

No one will make it to heaven in this case.

I'm sorry my friend but we were discussing the verse in John 12:40. Not the in OT

Only those what have been born of and by the Holy Spirit, will dwell with the Lord in His Kingdom. And no one else.
"Not by Might, nor by power, but by my Spirit saith the Lord"!

Zec_4:6 Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.

 

[1ofthem]

No our faith is a gift given through the fruit of the Holy Spirit as a result of becoming born again. Remember,
Christ is the Savior, we are not


[Gal 5:22 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Mark 9:24

“And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.”

 

[1ofthem]

No our faith is a gift given through the fruit of the Holy Spirit as a result of becoming born again. Remember,
Christ is the Savior, we are not


[Gal 5:22 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

The unsaved do not have the fruit of the Spirit....so this makes no sense in the process of Salvation.

You can't have the fruit of the Spirit until you are saved. Can you? I'd say, no.

 

[rogerg]

Once again Jesus came to this earth, lived, died, was buried, and resurrected for our sins. He then went to sit down in heavenly places at God's right hand and sent the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost convicts the world of sin.

So I'd say the Holy Ghost through the word of God lights up the way to Jesus for everyone... giving all a chance. And whosoever chooses to accept Jesus and have faith in Him will be saved.

And Jesus also said if I be lifted up I will draw all men unto me.

Nope:

[Jhn 6:36-37, 39 KJV]
36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. ...
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

 

[rogerg]

Mark 9:24

“And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.”

I don't understand your point. Please explain

 

[LuvofChrist]

Exactly as many as He wanted in order to demonstrate His power. Here I'll repost:

[Rom 9:17 KJV] 17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

How do you interpret that verse?

I support what you are stating, I found another scripture in the Old Testament which further supports that the LORD our God harden's the heart of wicked men for HIS PURPOSES!

Deu_2:30 But Sihon king of Heshbon would not let us pass by him: for the LORD thy God hardened his spirit, and made his heart obstinate, that he might deliver him into thy hand, as appeareth this day.
AMEN!!!!!
They never answer directly to scriptures given and only choose those which they have no understanding for they do not take it into full context of the chapter.....that is how underhandedly and deceitfully they manhandle the word of God. So let us let them be as they are, for they walk not in the Light and Spirit of the Scriptures only according to their own fleshly and sinful hearts.
They are deceived, and unless the Lord Grant them the Grace and Faith to believe IN HIM and His Word and the Power of the Holy Spirit, they will be wailing and nashing their teeth.

They are dried up wells, that can hold no water......
Lord bless you.....

 

[rogerg]

The unsaved do not have the fruit of the Spirit....so this makes no sense in the process of Salvation.

You can't have the fruit of the Spirit until you are saved. Can you? I'd say, no.

That's exactly my point- no you can't. In order to have true faith, you have to have been first born again at which time are you
indwelt by the Holy Spirt and given His fruit, one of which, is faith.

 

[1ofthem]

[Exo 7:13 KJV]
13 And he hardened Pharaoh's heart, that he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said.
[Exo 10:20, 27 KJV]
20 But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go. ...
27 But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he would not let them go.
[Exo 11:10 KJV]
10 And Moses and Aaron did all these wonders before Pharaoh: and the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go out of his land.

You are missing the First plagues 1-5...where Pharoah hardened his own heart first those five times.
Exo. 8:15 But when Pharaoh saw that there was a yrespite, he zhardened his heart and would not listen to them, as the Lord had said.