Extra-Biblical Revelation

[Blik]

The thread is not about "extra material" or information. It is about claims of direct revelations from God. Which would make the claimants into prophets. But when you examine their doctrines as a whole, they are frequently false. And even their prophecies are questionable.

Oh. I completely agree with you. We are told that we may not add to or take away from scripture. Councils over the years have claimed they can add to scripture because the holy spirit authorized them to do so, but they were in error. The holy spirit gives understanding to the scripture that is there it does not add to scripture.

We have a problem with different interpretations of scripture. As an example, some say that Paul taught that God cancelled the law and some say Paul taught that God did not cancel the law. There is truth apart from these interpretations, and discussing it can be helpful.

 

[Hone]

Agreed, but you stated,

“the only revelation's available to us are spiritual, they come to YOU, for YOU, to do as you will on your journey closer to GOD,”

The only revelation is scripture, yes? As you read and study scripture, the Spirit will bring you into remembrance.

my apology, I forgot to include the scriptures,.....but again they are personal revelation's which further the strength of your walk, the more you read/reread the Bible the more understanding you receive, and sharing those revelation's are usually met with hearty debates, I'm sure there are others out there that have had spiritual intersessions along the way, isn't our journey to be less led of this world and more of the spirit

 

[MattforJesus]

Have you ever noticed that in virtually every case where a teacher or preacher of the gospel has gone completely out into left field it's because they supposedly received some new "revelation from the Lord?" Usually it's a twist on familiar scriptures that reveals something new that was previously "hidden."

When you listen to them describe how a new revelation has been acquired, the process follows a familiar pattern. It usually starts with some sort of conversation with God. For example, they're stumped by some passage of scripture; then they begin asking God questions and God replies with something that leads to more questions. Finally at the end there's an "Ah-ha!" moment when the new revelation is given or discovered.

These teachers almost seem to be in competition with one another to see who can come up with the latest (and most outrageous) revelation. In the process the true gospel gets thrown down and trampled on.

My question is this is there really any need for extra-Biblical revelation? If it's allowed, how are we supposed to know which "revelations" to believe? Don't we need one authoritative source?

Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
Dan 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?
Dan 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

Daniel did not understand what was told him but was told to go his way for the words are closed up and sealed until the time of the end where they will understand it then.

And that is because many shall run to and fro, advanced travel, and knowledge shall be increased, advanced technology, which then the saints can see, hear, and know what is going on in the world, and how it is possible for them to come together and rebel against God.

The Bible has been around for many years and God already told us all there is to know in the Bible, and we are at the end time where we can understand all the end time prophesies, so it would seem like there would not be any new revelations.

If they say they have a new revelation it would seem like it would be false for what are they going to come up with that has not already been known.

And to understand the end time a person only needs to know it is the new age movement that causes it to happen where they will rebel against God and then He will end sin on earth.

It is already all known about the Bible and end time.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Have you ever noticed that in virtually every case where a teacher or preacher of the gospel has gone completely out into left field it's because they supposedly received some new "revelation from the Lord?" Usually it's a twist on familiar scriptures that reveals something new that was previously "hidden."

When you listen to them describe how a new revelation has been acquired, the process follows a familiar pattern. It usually starts with some sort of conversation with God. For example, they're stumped by some passage of scripture; then they begin asking God questions and God replies with something that leads to more questions. Finally at the end there's an "Ah-ha!" moment when the new revelation is given or discovered.

These teachers almost seem to be in competition with one another to see who can come up with the latest (and most outrageous) revelation. In the process the true gospel gets thrown down and trampled on.

My question is this is there really any need for extra-Biblical revelation? If it's allowed, how are we supposed to know which "revelations" to believe? Don't we need one authoritative source?

“Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭13:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

indeed there is no more need he is the revelation of God.

but that’s been the devils scheme since he gave Eve the “great revelation” that the fruit was good for them. It’s actually why he sent Jesus to establish his etrrnal
And unchanging word and it’s why hearing and believing the gospel is salvation


“Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:35

if you notice those great revelations you mention always seek take us from the truth of Christs word onto something , anything else any other way to God to avoid this

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

because his word is this , satans goal is to hide its truth by any means necassary

“For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:22, 24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s also the only way we can ever know God or the state of Our world

“And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we know because he said it in the gospel . So satans work is to offer great revelations about how that doesn’t apply to us but thier newest book holds the “real truth “

“In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭4:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

to Blind someone’s mind tonthe gospel you have to convince them of something else so we have all the false doctrines that originate from these great “ revelators “of the world who sell for great profit , The world a doctrine that makes them feel good about the world and partaking of the wickedness in it and tell them a different path

Christ is our source as your post I feel suggests and you already know perfectly

“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:6-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

pretty hard to get more revelation than that

 

[Lanolin]

the only reason that it would be a NEW revelation is for someone who hadnt read the scriptures or had forgotten them. which is why church is good for new believers to get started, but once they have read the entire Bible, they dont need to keep going back all the time if they had keep reading the Bible. The moment someone says something is from God but nobody can find it in their Bible...well then you have a false teacher.

Everyone has to test the spirits.

 

[presidente]

Have you ever noticed that in virtually every case where a teacher or preacher of the gospel has gone completely out into left field it's because they supposedly received some new "revelation from the Lord?" Usually it's a twist on familiar scriptures that reveals something new that was previously "hidden."

When you listen to them describe how a new revelation has been acquired, the process follows a familiar pattern. It usually starts with some sort of conversation with God. For example, they're stumped by some passage of scripture; then they begin asking God questions and God replies with something that leads to more questions. Finally at the end there's an "Ah-ha!" moment when the new revelation is given or discovered.

These teachers almost seem to be in competition with one another to see who can come up with the latest (and most outrageous) revelation. In the process the true gospel gets thrown down and trampled on.

My question is this is there really any need for extra-Biblical revelation? If it's allowed, how are we supposed to know which "revelations" to believe? Don't we need one authoritative source?

The faith has been 'once delivered to the saints' so if someone wants to add something to the message of salvation or change Biblical doctrine, I don't agree with that. The doctrines of the Christian faith have been revealed.

God can also reveal to individuals what they are called to do in terms of ministry or other things. The Spirit can speak to people, like the Spirit spoke to Philip to give him direction regarding the Ethiopian eunuch.

That being said 'revelation' does not seem to be used in a very narrow sense in scripture. No man knows the Father, but the Son and whomsoever the son reveals him, according to Jesus. Everyone who knows the Father received revelation.

God can open one's eyes and give understanding and revelation regarding a doctrinal truth that is already in scripture. At the same time, I am careful of those who claim a 'revelation' that is actually a poor misrepresentation of scripture that contradicts Biblical doctrine. For example, if someone claimed a 'revelation' that God lost all rights of access to planet earth after Adam fell, I can point to 'The earth is the LORD's and the fullness thereof.'

And regarding revelation:

I Corinthians 14:26 says, "...When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation...." (ESV).

That chapter mentions 'revelation' in two other verses as something that can be shared in church meetings to edify others. Paul's instructions require that the church allow someone to speak in tongues and someone to interpret, to allow prophets to prophesy two or three, and if someone sitting by receives a revelation, for the first to hold his peace, for ye may all prophesy one by one.

 

[presidente]

Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar. Proverbs 30: 5-6

How do you interpret this? Do you think it is saying anyone who wrote scripture after Proverbs 30 verse 6 was written was a liar? Or do you think it means not to add anything to what God said?

I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.
And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book
Rev 22

Okay, let us not add to the book/scroll of Revelation.

 

[presidente]

The moment someone says something is from God but nobody can find it in their Bible...well then you have a false teacher.

Is this idea, quoted above, found in the Bible?

Can you find it in the Bible?

If a preacher says God called him to preach in India as a missionary, is that preacher a false teacher in your opinion?

 

[presidente]

The only revelation is scripture, yes? As you read and study scripture, the Spirit will bring you into remembrance.

The Bible does not teach that the only revelation is scripture. Jesus revealed the Father.

John 1:18
No one has ever seen God. The One and Only Son— the One who is at the Father’s side— He has revealed Him.
(HCSB)


Man also has access to knowledge of God, even His eternal power and Godhead, through the things that are made so that men are without excuse according to Romans 1. There is revelation in creation.

Paul also wrote about people sharing revelation in church. Prophecy is one of the gifts of the Spirit given to the saints to edify the body of Christ.

 

[John146]

Is this idea, quoted above, found in the Bible?

Can you find it in the Bible?

If a preacher says God called him to preach in India as a missionary, is that preacher a false teacher in your opinion?

Are you saying that the Bible is not all we need? We need further revelation from God to live a life pleasing to Him?

 

[ResidentAlien]

Some of the things I'm talking about are preachers who say God wants everyone to be wealthy for example. They claim Jesus was wealthy, had a big nice home, designer clothes, etc., etc. They claim that it was "revealed" to them in the scriptures. But this can't be a true revelation because that's not what scripture teaches.

Or another example is that God wants everyone to always be in perfect health. One of their go-to verses is Isaiah 53:5:

"But he was pierced for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his wounds we are healed."

If you study Isaiah 53 and pay attention to what it actually says, it's talking about being healed from our iniquity and guilt. Extra-Biblical preachers take this verse out of context and it give it a meaning it doesn't have. The only way they could get physical healing from Isaiah 53:5 is if they received it by special "revelation." These preachers and teachers use special revelation to justify virtually any interpretation of scripture they desire. We have a mountain of evidence from the New Testament that Christians aren't automatically guaranteed perfect health.

 

[presidente]

Are you saying that the Bible is not all we need? We need further revelation from God to live a life pleasing to Him?

Of course the Bible is not all you need. Such an idea contradicts scripture. We need grace from God, faith, other members of the body of Christ and the gifts the Spirit gives.

 

[presidente]

Some of the things I'm talking about are preachers who say God wants everyone to be wealthy for example. They claim Jesus was wealthy, had a big nice home, designer clothes, etc., etc. They claim that it was "revealed" to them in the scriptures.

Because Jesus had a pillow in the boat? I think I heard a few lines of that sermon and turned the channel after I realized I was arguing with the TV set. I don't know that he said God 'revealed' it to him in the scriptures.

Did you actually hear a sermon where the preacher said God revealed to him that Jesus was rich or is that a hypothetical example?

Some people may preach nonsense and then say it was 'revealed' to them, but that doesn't mean that God cannot open up people's understanding of the scriptures or that the Spirit does not give the type of revelations I Corinthians 14 mentions, directing people to speak certain words to edify the assembly.

Or another example is that God wants everyone to always be in perfect health. One of their go-to verses is Isaiah 53:5:

"But he was pierced for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his wounds we are healed."

If you study Isaiah 53 and pay attention to what it actually says, it's talking about being healed from our iniquity and guilt. Extra-Biblical preachers take this verse out of context and it give it a meaning it doesn't have. The only way they could get physical healing from Isaiah 53:5 is if they received it by special "revelation."

Another way to get physical healing from it is to read Matthew 8, where Matthew quotes from Isaiah 53 about physical healing.

Matthew 8
16 When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick:
17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.

What does this have to do with preachers using the word 'revelation' the way you described before?

These preachers and teachers use special revelation to justify virtually any interpretation of scripture they desire. We have a mountain of evidence from the New Testament that Christians aren't automatically guaranteed perfect health.

That sounds like a topic for another thread. But what does that have to do with the topic? Do you have a specific example of someone who claimed this was revelation.

Some people use the term 'revelation' to refer to divine understanding of scripture, or just truths revealed in scripture.

 

[Cabrillo]

Some of the things I'm talking about are preachers who say God wants everyone to be wealthy for example. They claim Jesus was wealthy, had a big nice home, designer clothes, etc., etc. They claim that it was "revealed" to them in the scriptures. But this can't be a true revelation because that's not what scripture teaches.

Or another example is that God wants everyone to always be in perfect health. One of their go-to verses is Isaiah 53:5:

"But he was pierced for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his wounds we are healed."

If you study Isaiah 53 and pay attention to what it actually says, it's talking about being healed from our iniquity and guilt. Extra-Biblical preachers take this verse out of context and it give it a meaning it doesn't have. The only way they could get physical healing from Isaiah 53:5 is if they received it by special "revelation." These preachers and teachers use special revelation to justify virtually any interpretation of scripture they desire. We have a mountain of evidence from the New Testament that Christians aren't automatically guaranteed perfect health.

That sounds just like an old prosperity doctrine con. I've been hearing it over 40 years. Somewhere they may have said something like "Your gifts and love offerings will return tenfold." just before asking for tithes offerings and donations. Many have gotten rich that way. Mainly Televangelists, book and recording offers etc. I even saw a guy a couple of times hocking hankies or napkins, on late night TV, with a hand traced upon it saying that spiritually it's just like I laid hands upon whatever ails you. "Only $?9.99, tonight! And remember your gift is tax deductible."

Dung. False preacher!

 

[John146]

Of course the Bible is not all you need. Such an idea contradicts scripture. We need grace from God, faith, other members of the body of Christ and the gifts the Spirit gives.

See Joseph Smith...

 

[John146]

Of course the Bible is not all you need. Such an idea contradicts scripture. We need grace from God, faith, other members of the body of Christ and the gifts the Spirit gives.

See Roman Catholicism...

 

[presidente]

See Roman Catholicism...

See the Bible.

Btw do you use your Bible to cut your steak or do you use a knife?

If an atheist has a Bible, is he saved? He has the Bible. Is it all he needs?

Why assemble with other brlievers if the Bible is all you need?

I Corinthians teaches us that one part of the body does not say to another part, 'I have no need of thee.' Members of the body of Christ ___need___ each other. Are you the Bible? Are other people in your church the Bible? Hebrews says to come boldly that you may come boldly to find grace to help in time of ___need___.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Are you saying that the Bible is not all we need? We need further revelation from God to live a life pleasing to Him?

Did you believe the Bible on it's own? Or did you believe it because The Holy Spirit revealed to you that it was truth?
Many thousands of people have read Bible verses and not believed them.

 

[Aaron56]

IMO, there are some great points already made in this thread.

In my view, there is no need to add to the scriptures. Anyone who suggests otherwise is to be avoided. Prophesy, today, can always be verified by the scriptures. TIMING is the main issue (like it was from the Old Testament to the New Testament): it's one thing to have recorded something, it's another to know when the that something is to be carried out or expected in the earth.

The standard for the sons of God is to only do what they see their Father doing. This requires understanding and knowledge which comes by revelation. When this is carried out in the life of the believer, they may properly say they are being led by the Holy Spirit. This is seen often in the scriptures: where the Spirit allowed or forbid certain actions, how men were separated for the work of the Lord, chosen to carry messages or record what God was doing. We can take great comfort in that we have a solid record of how God deals with, and still deals with His people: personally, corporately, from Spirit to spirit, from the mouth of those sent, and from the record of the testaments, etc.

Now, it is true that liars and cheats have abused the people by deception for their own personal gain. In my opinion, this is the evilest form of, well, evil: using the Lord's name to abuse people. For such men and women, there is reserved harsh judgement. The actual work of God is orderly and peaceful, it builds assurance and bolsters the faith of the saints. It is done freely and without cost to those who benefit and it often confirms what that person already knew in their spirit. I know these things because this is the way I live: a way that can easily be found within the scriptures.

Love and Peace,
Aaron56

 

[mindfulzen]

Have you ever noticed that in virtually every case where a teacher or preacher of the gospel has gone completely out into left field it's because they supposedly received some new "revelation from the Lord?" Usually it's a twist on familiar scriptures that reveals something new that was previously "hidden."

When you listen to them describe how a new revelation has been acquired, the process follows a familiar pattern. It usually starts with some sort of conversation with God. For example, they're stumped by some passage of scripture; then they begin asking God questions and God replies with something that leads to more questions. Finally at the end there's an "Ah-ha!" moment when the new revelation is given or discovered.

These teachers almost seem to be in competition with one another to see who can come up with the latest (and most outrageous) revelation. In the process the true gospel gets thrown down and trampled on.

My question is this is there really any need for extra-Biblical revelation? If it's allowed, how are we supposed to know which "revelations" to believe? Don't we need one authoritative source?

You do not have conversations with God. It is a voiceless voice it says. If people here a voice, then they must be talking to the evil one.