Let's clarify the doctrine of illumination --- some may think it makes them infallible interpretation of Bible

[TheLearner]

"
One passage that sometimes stirs controversy regarding illumination is John 14:26, “But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.” Jesus was speaking to His disciples in the upper room, giving them last instructions before His death. This special group of men was to be responsible for spreading the good news of Jesus Christ to the whole world. They had spent three and a half years with Him, watching His miracles and hearing His teachings. They would relay those things to the rest of the world, and would need God’s special help remembering those things accurately. Jesus said that the Holy Spirit would teach them and remind them of what had been said, so they could give it to others (including the writing of the Gospels). This verse does not teach that the Spirit will do so with all believers (though there are other verses that speak of the Spirit’s illuminating work). " https://www.gotquestions.org/biblical-illumination.html

 

[TheLearner]

"The theory of divine illumination is generally conceived of as distinctively Christian, distinctively medieval, and distinctively Augustinian. There is some justification for this, of course, inasmuch as Christian medieval philosophers gave the theory serious and sustained discussion, and inasmuch as Augustine gave illumination a very prominent role in his theory of knowledge. Still, it is better to think of the theory in a wider context. Divine illumination played a prominent part in ancient Greek philosophy, in the later Greek commentary tradition, in neo-Platonism, and in medieval Islamic philosophy. Moreover, it was Christian medieval philosophers, near the end of the thirteenth century, who were ultimately responsible for decisively refuting the theory. I will suggest that we view this last development as the first great turning point in the history of cognitive theory. " https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/illumination/

"
This promise from the Lord does not have a direct application to Christians today (see Jn. 14:16-17, 26; 15:26-27; 16:12-16; cf. also Mt. 10:19-20; Lk. 21:14-15).

It is a travesty to misuse these contexts in such an irresponsible fashion.

Here are some important questions that must be answered.

• If the Holy Spirit illuminates the mind of the Christian student, is the Holy Spirit as infallible as an expositor as he was in his role of author of the sacred message? If not, why not?
• Furthermore, how would we know if or when we have been “illuminated”?
• If someone affirms that he’s been illuminated with reference to a particular passage, may he ever alter his view of that text? If so, did the Spirit misdirect him earlier?

Then there’s this. If one person has been illuminated regarding a passage, are all others who take a different view in error? If two people claim illumination but they differ on the interpretation of a passage, how could I know which of these is correct — or if either is?

Can the Holy Spirit Do a Better Job the Second Time?
And perhaps the gravest implication of all is this. If the Holy Spirit could not make the Scriptures comprehensible to man the first time by the revelation in an objective written form, how can we be confident that he is able to make God’s will comprehensible the second time around by a seemingly subjective illuminating process?

Note professor Zuck’s concession. He says that the Spirit’s role in illumination “does not mean that one’s interpretations are infallible” (24; emphasis added).

" https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/641-the-holy-spirit-illumination-theory-a-critical-review

 

[TheLearner]

"
This theory contradicts what the Bible says in a number of ways. This can be seen by examining the following evidence:

1. THIS VIEW CONFUSES DIVINE INSPIRATION AND ILLUMINATION
The illumination theory confuses divine inspiration and illumination. Divine inspiration is the special ability that God granted to certain individuals to write Holy Scripture. It was only given to a few individuals and only for a limited duration. It has not been in operation since the time Jesus’ apostles lived upon the earth. On the other hand, the influence of illumination is common to all Christians from the time of the apostles until the present. Illumination is how the Holy Spirit helps believers understand the things of God that are revealed in the Scripture. Only the believer in Jesus Christ, with the help of the Holy Spirit, is able to understand these truths of God. Paul emphasized this as he wrote to the Corinthians:

The unbeliever does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him. And he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. (1 Corinthians 2:14 NET)​

The New Revised Standard Version translates this verse in the following manner:

Those who are unspiritual do not receive the gifts of God’s Spirit, for they are foolishness to them, and they are unable to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. (1 Corinthians 2:14 NRSV)​

Therefore, this view fails to distinguish between the biblical prophet and the preacher. Divine inspiration was limited to a select group of people that God chose to write Scripture; it is not the same as God presently guiding individuals to preach His message. Today, preachers and Bible teachers can make mistakes in the preparation and delivering of God’s truth to His people. However, the biblical writers were supernaturally guided so that they did not make mistakes.

The distinction between divine inspiration and illumination needs to be understood to avoid confusion.

2. AT TIMES, THE BIBLICAL WRITERS DID NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY RECORDED
There is another point that is fatal to this theory; the biblical writers did not always understand what they were writing. Sometimes the biblical writers did not comprehend the full meaning of their writings. We are told that the prophets, at certain times, received truths by divine inspiration, but were denied illumination for the comprehension of these same truths. Peter himself wrote about this:

Concerning this salvation, the prophets who predicted the grace that would come to you searched and investigated carefully. They probed into what person or time the Spirit of Christ in them was indicating when he testified beforehand about the sufferings appointed for Christ and his subsequent glory. They were shown that they were serving not themselves but you, in regard to the things now announced to you through those who evangelized you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven?things angels long to catch a glimpse of. (1 Peter 1:10-12 NET)​

Although the Holy Spirit divinely inspired their words, He did not always see fit to give them the understanding of what they meant. Therefore, the words of Scripture did not come about when certain human beings grasped divine truth. It was the result of God supernaturally working in the lives of certain writers to record His truth, and this truth was not always understood by the writers.

3. IF THIS THEORY IS TRUE, THEN WHY HASN’T MORE SCRIPTURE BEEN WRITTEN?
If the Scriptures were merely the result of an illumination possessed by all believers, then why haven’t we had any further revelation since the first century? Why don’t we have a new Bible written today? There would certainly be no reason to deny this possibility if Scripture were merely the result of a gift given to all believers. Yet we do not find any examples of godly people writing new Scripture since the time of the apostles.

4. NO MORE SCRIPTURE HAS BEEN GIVEN SINCE THE FIRST CENTURY
There is no biblical evidence that God continued to divinely inspire writers after the New Testament era. To the contrary, Jude informs us that the faith has been “once and for all delivered.” He wrote:

Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints. (Jude 3 NKJV)​

There is no need for any more divine revelation where God divinely inspires writers to set forth His truth. The truth of Scripture is now complete. The writer to the Hebrews said that God has spoken with finality through Jesus Christ. He said:

After God spoke long ago in various portions and in various ways to our ancestors through the prophets, in these last days he has spoken to us in a son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he created the world. (Hebrews 1:1-2 NET)​

The Contemporary English Version reads:

Long ago in many ways and at many times God’s prophets spoke his message to our ancestors. But now at last, God sent his Son to bring his message to us. God created the universe by his Son, and everything will someday belong to the Son. (Hebrews 1:1-2 CEV)​

There is no further need for God to supernaturally reveal His truth to all humanity. He has said all that He needs to say.

Conclusion: Divine Inspiration Was Limited to a Select Few
Divine inspiration was limited to a small group of men whom God specifically chose to use to put His Word in written form to humankind.

It is not a universally shared experience among believers. In addition, not everyone who had the gift of prophecy was divinely inspired to write Scripture. Therefore, divine inspiration does not occur in the present day.

"https://www.blueletterbible.org/Com...uestion6-illumination-theory-of-authority.cfm

 

[TheLearner]

"
Definitions:

a. Interpretation – The process of a reader seeking to understand the meaning of a scripture passage.

b. Illumination – The process of the Holy Spirit helping the reader understand and apply biblical truth.

c. Application – The process of a reader putting into practice the truths and principles he/she has learned in the Bible.

"
https://bible.org/seriespage/8-interpretation-illumination-and-application

 

[TheLearner]

https://www.grin.com/document/491385

https://www.google.com/search?q=wha...EwjhhrrutojzAhXkdM0KHeq4D1k4ChDh1QMIDg&uact=5

 

[Pilgrimshope]

"
One passage that sometimes stirs controversy regarding illumination is John 14:26, “But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.” Jesus was speaking to His disciples in the upper room, giving them last instructions before His death. This special group of men was to be responsible for spreading the good news of Jesus Christ to the whole world. They had spent three and a half years with Him, watching His miracles and hearing His teachings. They would relay those things to the rest of the world, and would need God’s special help remembering those things accurately. Jesus said that the Holy Spirit would teach them and remind them of what had been said, so they could give it to others (including the writing of the Gospels). This verse does not teach that the Spirit will do so with all believers (though there are other verses that speak of the Spirit’s illuminating work). " https://www.gotquestions.org/biblical-illumination.html

includong the writing of the gospels that’s why we have them brother to remind us what he said they’ve been there since he left the earth and are always going to be the same

“Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭13:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we forget the apostles preached the gospel for many many years but we only have a few brief epistles that they wrote. Thier preaching was what’s written in the gospels and the wrote them down so everyone could hear the gospel and be constantly reminded of his word

some view the epistles as what the apostles preached but they are only brief helpers to Understand the gospels we have what’s written to be our constant remonder until it becomes part of our belief and is written on our hearts

what he said to the disciples then is the same thing he’s saying to his disciples now his words will always be the same

“Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:35‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭1:23-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we’re fortunate we have the gospel that’s written down or we would never know that word and would have to rely on mans word of what was said two thousand years ago in order to know what God said but by the Holy Spirit he wrote it down and sent it out to us even as far as we are from the days he spoke it

 

[CS1]

"
Definitions:

a. Interpretation – The process of a reader seeking to understand the meaning of a scripture passage.

b.

• 
  Christian Forums
• Conspiracy & Corruption Discussion

c. Application – The process of a reader putting into practice the truths and principles he/she has learned in the Bible.

"
https://bible.org/seriespage/8-interpretation-illumination-and-application

that it right there. that's what Illumination does. as "B" says.

 

[TheLearner]

includong the writing of the gospels that’s why we have them brother to remind us what he said they’ve been there since he left the earth and are always going to be the same

“Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭13:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we forget the apostles preached the gospel for many many years but we only have a few brief epistles that they wrote. Thier preaching was what’s written in the gospels and the wrote them down so everyone could hear the gospel and be constantly reminded of his word

some view the epistles as what the apostles preached but they are only brief helpers to Understand the gospels we have what’s written to be our constant remonder until it becomes part of our belief and is written on our hearts

what he said to the disciples then is the same thing he’s saying to his disciples now his words will always be the same

“Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:35‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭1:23-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we’re fortunate we have the gospel that’s written down or we would never know that word and would have to rely on mans word of what was said two thousand years ago in order to know what God said but by the Holy Spirit he wrote it down and sent it out to us even as far as we are from the days he spoke it

Hebrews 13:8 is about the nature of God, not how he relates to people in different dispensations. What you wrote is a common misreading of the text.

"what he said to the disciples then is the same thing he’s saying to his disciples now his words will always be the same "

 

[TheLearner]

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Hebrews 13:8 is about the nature of God, not how he relates to people in different dispensations. What you wrote is a common misreading of the text.

"what he said to the disciples then is the same thing he’s saying to his disciples now his words will always be the same "

It doesn’t say Jesus is the same forever ?

hmm interesting

this also out of context ?

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

or this ?

“Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:35‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Hebrews 13:8 is about the nature of God, not how he relates to people in different dispensations. What you wrote is a common misreading of the text.

"what he said to the disciples then is the same thing he’s saying to his disciples now his words will always be the same "

can you explain what you mean to say here

“Hebrews 13:8 is about the nature of God, not how he relates to people in different dispensations.”

“Let brotherly love continue. Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation. Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.

We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle. For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp.

Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate. Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach. For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come. By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name. But to do good and to communicate forget not: for with such sacrifices God is well pleased.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭13:1-2, 7-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It doesn’t seem like it has anything to do with “god relating to different dispensations “ of it does it’s saying he doesn’t change in any way which was sort of my point .

is that one of those random ideas we just need to accept because someone said that to us or is there something there in the context you are talking about ? That I’m not seeing ?

 

[wattie]

Jesus is the same yesterday and forever isn't about Him always working the same way since the first NT churches but the certainty of His promises and nature

 

[TheLearner]

can you explain what you mean to say here

“Hebrews 13:8 is about the nature of God, not how he relates to people in different dispensations.”

“Let brotherly love continue. Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation. Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.

We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle. For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp.

Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate. Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach. For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come. By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name. But to do good and to communicate forget not: for with such sacrifices God is well pleased.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭13:1-2, 7-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It doesn’t seem like it has anything to do with “god relating to different dispensations “ of it does it’s saying he doesn’t change in any way which was sort of my point .

is that one of those random ideas we just need to accept because someone said that to us or is there something there in the context you are talking about ? That I’m not seeing ?

As you know friend, Jesus is fully God and Fully Man. The text that says he emptied himself has the understanding that he set the practice of some of his attributes on hold while on earth. God's nature is eternal, the great I am that I am John 8:58. God approached people different in various ages. Like in Hebrews it refers to the Old and New Covenants. It is God's Nature which Jesus is that does not change --- Just the way he approaches humans. God Bless, I hear my wife getting out of bed. So, she will soon take over the computer.

 

[TheLearner]

"
The immutability of God (His quality of not changing) is clearly taught throughout Scripture. For example, in Malachi 3:6 God affirms, "I the Lord do not change." (See also Numbers 23:19; 1 Samuel 15:29; Isaiah 46:9-11; and Ezekiel 24:14.)

James 1:17 also teaches the immutability of God: “Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness nor shadow of turning.” The “shadow of turning” refers to our perspective on the sun: it is eclipsed it moves and it casts its shadow. The sun rises and sets, appears and disappears every day; it comes out of one tropic and enters into another at certain seasons of the year. But with God, who, spiritually speaking, is light itself, there is no darkness at all; there is no change with Him, nor anything like it. God is unchangeable in His nature, perfections, purposes, promises, and gifts. He, being holy, cannot turn to that which is evil; nor can He, who is the fountain of light, be the cause of darkness. Since every good and perfect gift comes from Him, evil cannot proceed from Him, nor can He tempt any to it (James 1:13). The Bible is clear that God does not change His mind, His will, or His nature.

There are several logical reasons why God must be immutable, that is, why it is impossible for God to change. First, if anything changes, it must do so in some chronological order. There must be a point in time before the change and a point in time after the change. Therefore, for change to take place it must happen within the constraints of time; however, God is eternal and exists outside of the constraints of time (Psalm 33:11; 41:13; 90:2-4; John 17:5; 2 Timothy 1:9).

Second, the immutability of God is necessary for His perfection. If anything changes, it must change for the better or the worse, because a change that makes no difference is not a change. For change to take place, either something that is needed is added, which is a change for the better; or something that is needed is lost, which is a change for the worse. But, since God is perfect, He does not need anything. Therefore, He cannot change for the better. If God were to lose something, He would no longer be perfect; therefore, He cannot change for the worse.

Third, the immutability of God is related to His omniscience. When someone changes his/her mind, it is often because new information has come to light that was not previously known or because the circumstances have changed and require a different attitude or action. Because God is omniscient, He cannot learn something new that He did not already know. So, when the Bible speaks of God changing His mind, it must be understood that the circumstance or situation has changed, not God. When Exodus 32:14 and 1 Samuel 15:11-29 speak of God changing His mind, it is simply describing a change of dispensation and outward dealings toward man. "
https://www.gotquestions.org/immutability-God.html

 

[Nehemiah6]

"The theory of divine illumination is generally conceived of as distinctively Christian, distinctively medieval, and distinctively Augustinian.

This is false. Firstly it is no "theory" (but spiritual fact) and secondly Christians have been enlightened by God ever since the Holy Spirit was given as a gift to those who believe. So it is neither medieval nor Augustinian.

White Got Questions is generally sound, they are not always right.

 

[TheLearner]

This is false. Firstly it is no "theory" (but spiritual fact) and secondly Christians have been enlightened by God ever since the Holy Spirit was given as a gift to those who believe. So it is neither medieval nor Augustinian.

White Got Questions is generally sound, they are not always right.

I was using a quote.

 

[DavidTree]

"
One passage that sometimes stirs controversy regarding illumination is John 14:26, “But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.” Jesus was speaking to His disciples in the upper room, giving them last instructions before His death. This special group of men was to be responsible for spreading the good news of Jesus Christ to the whole world. They had spent three and a half years with Him, watching His miracles and hearing His teachings. They would relay those things to the rest of the world, and would need God’s special help remembering those things accurately. Jesus said that the Holy Spirit would teach them and remind them of what had been said, so they could give it to others (including the writing of the Gospels). This verse does not teach that the Spirit will do so with all believers (though there are other verses that speak of the Spirit’s illuminating work). " https://www.gotquestions.org/biblical-illumination.html

You have part truth, but then you come to a false conclusion.

I am not asking that You take them out of the world, but that You keep them from the evil one. They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. Sanctify them by the truth; Your word is truth. As You sent Me into the world, I have also sent them into the world. For them I sanctify Myself, so that they too may be sanctified by the truth.
I am not asking on behalf of them alone, but also on behalf of those who will believe in Me through their message, that all of them may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I am in You. May they also be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.

Most important thing after Salvation through the Blood of the Lamb (Christ) is the Holy Spirit.

God, strongly recommends to all His Children to seek the baptism of the Holy Spirit that you may be filled.