Understanding the Trinity as a doctrine.

[justbyfaith]

I will attempt to explain the Trinity with the following things in mind.

Eph 3:3, How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
Eph 3:4, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

Tit 2:1, But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:

There is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4); the Father (John 4:23-24), the Son (John 4:24, Ephesians 3:17, Colossians 1:27, 1 John 5:12), and the Holy Ghost (John 7:39, 2 Timothy 1:14).

There is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5); the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21), the Son (1 Corinthians 8:6, 1 Corinthians 12:3), and the Holy Ghost (2 Corinthians 3:17).

There is one God (Ephesians 4:6); the Father (1 Corinthians 8:6, James 3:9 (kjv), Romans 15:6, Ephesians 4:6), the Son (Hebrews 1:8-9; John 8:58, Exodus 3:14; John 8:59, John 10:31-33), and the Holy Ghost (Acts 5:3-4, Romans 8:26-27).

With this in mind, I encourage the reader to interpret 1 Corinthians 12:4-6 and Ephesians 4:4-6.

That being said, there are distinctions between the members of the Trinity.

The Father is a Spirit (John 4:23-24) inhabiting eternity (Isaiah 57:15) without flesh.

The Son is the same Spirit (Ephesians 4:4, John 4:24) dwelling in human flesh (1 John 4:1-3, 2 john 1:7).

The Holy Ghost is the same Spirit (Ephesians 4:4, John 7:39); after having lived a human life in the Person of the Son (see Luke 23:46); released to the Father in eternity from the human body of the Son; and who also descends into time in order to produce holy scripture (1 Peter 1:11) and to work within the church in order to win souls to Jesus Christ.

The Father, in the descending into time to take on an added nature of human flesh, did not VACATE ETERNITY.

So, when Jesus releases His Spirit (see John 14:7-11) back into eternity, there is now one God existing beside Himself in eternity; as there are two distinct Persons in the Father and the Holy Ghost who are infinite in nature.

The Son also being infinite in nature in His Deity; however in His humanity, which has received a glorified human body likened unto the angels (Matthew 22:30), He is of a finite nature and as He said, "The Father is greater than I" (John 14:28); while as concerning His Deity He is equal to the Father (John 5:18).

For I contend that the Son is the Son in the reality that there is a hypostatic union of the two natures of humanity and Deity.

I also contend that the Son was begotten in the incarnation (Luke 1:35); but that He ascended to fill all things (Ephesians 4:10) in the Person of the Holy Ghost.

 

[justbyfaith]

I have given the above post with the understanding that essence and Spirit are synonymous as we understand them in the creeds.

 

[JaumeJ]

God is One according to the OT and according to Jesus Yeshua. This does not say He is all three of His manifestations for He told Moses He will be what He wil be. No one understands this truth, not even if they elaborate a doctrine saying they do.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

Personally, I agree With God's Word Of Truth!:

1Jn 5:7 "For there are THREE That Bear Record in heaven,
The Father, The Word, AND The Holy Ghost: and These THREE Are ONE."

Col_2:9 "For In HIM DWELLETH The FULLNESS Of The Godhead Bodily!"

By faith I accept and believe What God Says, even IF I don't understand IT! Amen?

(2 Timothy 2:15; Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:3-9; Ephesians 3:9 =
Grace/Mystery fellowship, today?)

Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified!
God's Simple Will!

 

[SomeDisciple]

Sometimes I feel like the difference between oneness and trinitarianism is semantics, or a disagreement over the word "person".

 

[Deade]

I will attempt to explain the Trinity with the following things in mind.

Eph 3:3, How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
Eph 3:4, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

Tit 2:1, But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:

There is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4); the Father (John 4:23-24), the Son (John 4:24, Ephesians 3:17, Colossians 1:27, 1 John 5:12), and the Holy Ghost (John 7:39, 2 Timothy 1:14).

There is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5); the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21), the Son (1 Corinthians 8:6, 1 Corinthians 12:3), and the Holy Ghost (2 Corinthians 3:17).

There is one God (Ephesians 4:6); the Father (1 Corinthians 8:6, James 3:9 (kjv), Romans 15:6, Ephesians 4:6), the Son (Hebrews 1:8-9; John 8:58, Exodus 3:14; John 8:59, John 10:31-33), and the Holy Ghost (Acts 5:3-4, Romans 8:26-27).

With this in mind, I encourage the reader to interpret 1 Corinthians 12:4-6 and Ephesians 4:4-6.

That being said, there are distinctions between the members of the Trinity.

The Father is a Spirit (John 4:23-24) inhabiting eternity (Isaiah 57:15) without flesh.

The Son is the same Spirit (Ephesians 4:4, John 4:24) dwelling in human flesh (1 John 4:1-3, 2 john 1:7).

The Holy Ghost is the same Spirit (Ephesians 4:4, John 7:39); after having lived a human life in the Person of the Son (see Luke 23:46); released to the Father in eternity from the human body of the Son; and who also descends into time in order to produce holy scripture (1 Peter 1:11) and to work within the church in order to win souls to Jesus Christ.

The Father, in the descending into time to take on an added nature of human flesh, did not VACATE ETERNITY.

So, when Jesus releases His Spirit (see John 14:7-11) back into eternity, there is now one God existing beside Himself in eternity; as there are two distinct Persons in the Father and the Holy Ghost who are infinite in nature.

The Son also being infinite in nature in His Deity; however in His humanity, which has received a glorified human body likened unto the angels (Matthew 22:30), He is of a finite nature and as He said, "The Father is greater than I" (John 14:28); while as concerning His Deity He is equal to the Father (John 5:18).

For I contend that the Son is the Son in the reality that there is a hypostatic union of the two natures of humanity and Deity.

I also contend that the Son was begotten in the incarnation (Luke 1:35); but that He ascended to fill all things (Ephesians 4:10) in the Person of the Holy Ghost.

What! Wait! There is a lot of assumption going on here. Maybe just back up and quit labeling the infinite attributes of God. John 4:24 "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."

 

[Nehemiah6]

I also contend that the Son was begotten in the incarnation (Luke 1:35); but that He ascended to fill all things (Ephesians 4:10) in the Person of the Holy Ghost.

This is FALSE DOCTRINE. Beware of false teachers!

The Son was begotten by the Father in eternity past since HE is the eternal Son of God. And the Person of the Holy Ghost is DISTINCT from that of the Son. Here is the proper and biblical doctrine of the Trinity:

GOD THE FATHER IS NEITHER THE SON NOR THE HOLY SPIRIT
GOD THE SON IS NEITHER THE FATHER NOR THE HOLY SPIRIT
GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT IS NEITHER THE FATHER NOR THE SON

MATTHEW 3: THE HOLY TRINITY AT THE BAPTISM OF CHRIST
16 And Jesus [THE SON], when He was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto Him, and He saw the Spirit of God [THE HOLY SPIRIT] descending like a dove, and lighting upon Him: 17 And lo a voice from Heaven [THE VOICE OF THE FATHER], saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

 

[rayzor]

This is FALSE DOCTRINE. Beware of false teachers!

The Son was begotten by the Father in eternity past since HE is the eternal Son of God. And the Person of the Holy Ghost is DISTINCT from that of the Son. Here is the proper and biblical doctrine of the Trinity:

GOD THE FATHER IS NEITHER THE SON NOR THE HOLY SPIRIT
GOD THE SON IS NEITHER THE FATHER NOR THE HOLY SPIRIT
GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT IS NEITHER THE FATHER NOR THE SON

MATTHEW 3: THE HOLY TRINITY AT THE BAPTISM OF CHRIST
16 And Jesus [THE SON], when He was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto Him, and He saw the Spirit of God [THE HOLY SPIRIT] descending like a dove, and lighting upon Him: 17 And lo a voice from Heaven [THE VOICE OF THE FATHER], saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Nehemiah6 R there 3 gods?

 

[Nehemiah6]

Nehemiah6 R there 3 gods?

There divine Persons, but one God. You can either accept this by faith (based upon the Bible revelation) or you can join the cults. I have already shown from Scripture that this is true. There are many other Scriptures to support that.

 

[oldhermit]

Let me recommend you read through the following thread on the nature of God. I think this will be helpful to you.

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...scussion-between-oldhermit-and-kenisis.72017/

 

[TheLearner]

I will attempt to explain the Trinity with the following things in mind.

Eph 3:3, How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
Eph 3:4, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

Tit 2:1, But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:

There is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4); the Father (John 4:23-24), the Son (John 4:24, Ephesians 3:17, Colossians 1:27, 1 John 5:12), and the Holy Ghost (John 7:39, 2 Timothy 1:14).

There is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5); the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21), the Son (1 Corinthians 8:6, 1 Corinthians 12:3), and the Holy Ghost (2 Corinthians 3:17).

There is one God (Ephesians 4:6); the Father (1 Corinthians 8:6, James 3:9 (kjv), Romans 15:6, Ephesians 4:6), the Son (Hebrews 1:8-9; John 8:58, Exodus 3:14; John 8:59, John 10:31-33), and the Holy Ghost (Acts 5:3-4, Romans 8:26-27).

With this in mind, I encourage the reader to interpret 1 Corinthians 12:4-6 and Ephesians 4:4-6.

That being said, there are distinctions between the members of the Trinity.

The Father is a Spirit (John 4:23-24) inhabiting eternity (Isaiah 57:15) without flesh.

The Son is the same Spirit (Ephesians 4:4, John 4:24) dwelling in human flesh (1 John 4:1-3, 2 john 1:7).

The Holy Ghost is the same Spirit (Ephesians 4:4, John 7:39); after having lived a human life in the Person of the Son (see Luke 23:46); released to the Father in eternity from the human body of the Son; and who also descends into time in order to produce holy scripture (1 Peter 1:11) and to work within the church in order to win souls to Jesus Christ.

The Father, in the descending into time to take on an added nature of human flesh, did not VACATE ETERNITY.

So, when Jesus releases His Spirit (see John 14:7-11) back into eternity, there is now one God existing beside Himself in eternity; as there are two distinct Persons in the Father and the Holy Ghost who are infinite in nature.

The Son also being infinite in nature in His Deity; however in His humanity, which has received a glorified human body likened unto the angels (Matthew 22:30), He is of a finite nature and as He said, "The Father is greater than I" (John 14:28); while as concerning His Deity He is equal to the Father (John 5:18).

For I contend that the Son is the Son in the reality that there is a hypostatic union of the two natures of humanity and Deity.

I also contend that the Son was begotten in the incarnation (Luke 1:35); but that He ascended to fill all things (Ephesians 4:10) in the Person of the Holy Ghost.

Please explain what you mean by "The Father, in the descending into time to take on an added nature of human flesh " . This line looks like Jesus Only false teachings. Thanks for clarification, Daniel

 

[TheLearner]

The Biblical Basis of the Doctrine of the Trinity: An Outline Study By Robert M. Bowman, Jr. http://www.apologetics.com/
https://www.calvarychapelboston.com/Biblical Basis Trinity Bowman.pdf

The following posts are from this pdf file.

 

[TheLearner]

VIII. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit Are Distinct Persons
A. Matt. 28:19
1. "the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit": use of definite
article before each personal noun indicates distinct persons unless
explicitly stated otherwise; compare Rev. 1:17; 2:8, 26
2. The views that "Father" and "Son" are distinct persons but not
the Holy Spirit, or that the Holy Spirit is not a person at all, or that
all three are different offices or roles of one person, are impossible
in view of the grammar (together with the fact that in Scripture a
"spirit" is a person unless context shows otherwise).
3. Does singular "name" prove that the three are one person? No;
cf. Gen. 5:2; 11:14; 48:6; and esp. 48:16
...
C. God the Father and the Son Jesus Christ are two persons
1. The salutations: Rom. 1:7; 1 Cor. 1:3; 2 Cor. 1:2; Gal. 1:3; Eph.
1:2; 6:23; Phil. 1:2; 1 Thess. 1:1; 2 Thess. 1:1, 2; 1 Tim. 1:1, 2; 2
Tim. 1:2; Tit. 1:4; Phm. 3; James 1:1; 2 Pet. 1:2; 2 John 3
2. Two witnesses: John 5:31-32; 8:16-18; cf. Num. 35:30; Deut.
17:6; 19:15
3. The Father sent the Son: John 3:16-17; Gal. 4:4; 1 John 4:10;
etc.; cf. John 1:6; 17:18; 20:21
4. The Father and the Son love each other: John 3:35; 5:20; 14:31;
15:9; 17-23-26; cf. Matt. 3:17 par.; 17:5 par.; 2 Pet. 1:17
...
D. Jesus is not God the Father
1. Isa. 9:6: "Father of eternity" means eternal; compare other
names formed with word "father": Abialbon, "father of strength" =
strong (2 Sam. 23:31); Abiasaph, "father of gathering" = gatherer
(Ex. 6:24); Abigail, a woman's name(!), "father of exultation" =
exulting (1 Chron. 2:16).
2. John 10:30
a. Jesus did not say, "I am the Father," nor did He
say, "the Son and the Father are one person."
b. The first person plural esmen ("we are") implies
two persons.
c. The neuter word for "one" (hen) is used, implying
essential unity but not personal unity (compare John
17:21-23).
3. John 5:43: Jesus' coming in His Father's name means not that He
was the Father because He had the Father's name, but that, while
others come in their own name (or their own authority), Jesus does
not; He comes in His Father's name (on His Father's authority).
4. John 8:19; 16:3: Ignorance of Jesus is indeed ignorance of the
Father, but that does not prove that Jesus is the one He calls "My
Father."
5. John 14:6-11
a. Jesus and the Father are one being, not one
person.
b. Jesus said, "I am in the Father," not "I am the
Father."
c. The statement, "the Father is in Me," does not
mean Jesus is the Father; compare John 14:20;
17:21-23.
6. John 14:18: An older adult brother can care for his younger
siblings, thus preventing them from being "orphans," without being
their father.
7. Colossians 2:9: Does not mean that Jesus is the Father, or that
Jesus is an incarnation of the Father; rather, since "Godhead"
(theotês) means Deity, the state of being God, the nature of God,
Jesus is fully God, but not the only person who is God. "The
Godhead" here does not = the Father (note that Jesus is in the
Father, John 10:38; 14:10, 11; 17:21), but the nature of the Father.
8. The Father and the Son are both involved in various activities:
raising Jesus (Gal. 1:1; John 2:19-22), raising the dead (John 5:21);
6:39-40, 44, 54, 1 Cor. 6:14), answering prayer (John 14:13-14;
15:16; 16:23), sending the Holy Spirit (John 14:16; 15:26; 16:7),
drawing people to Jesus (John 6:44; 12:32), etc. These common
works do prove that the two persons are both God, but not that
Jesus is the Father
E. The Son existed before his Incarnation, even before creation
1. Prov. 30:4: This is not predictive prophecy; "prophecy" in 30:1
translates massa, which is rendered elsewhere as "burden."
2. The Son created all things: See VI.E.1
3. Jesus was "with" (pros or para) God the Father before creation:
John 1:1; 17:5; pros in John 1:1 does not mean "pertaining to,"
although it does in Hebrews 2:17; 5:1 (which use pros with ta).
4. Jesus, the Son of God, existed before John the Baptist (who was
born before Jesus): John 1:15, cf. 1:14-18, 29-34
5. Jesus, the Son, came down from heaven, sent from the Father,
and went back to heaven, back to the Father: John 3:13, 31; 6:33;
38, 41, 46, 51, 56-58, 62; 8:23, 42; 13:3; 16:27-28; cf. Acts 1:10-
11; cf. the sending of the Holy Spirit, John 16:5-7; 1 Pet. 1:12
6. Jesus, speaking as the Son (John 8:54-56), asserts His eternal
preexistence before Abraham: John 8:58

 

[TheLearner]

7. The Son explicitly said to exist "before all things": Col. 1:17, cf.
1:12-20
8. These statements cannot be dismissed as true only in God's
foreknowledge
a. We are all "in God's mind" before creation; yet
such passages as John 1:1 and John 17:5 clearly
mean to say something unusual about Christ.
b. To say that all things were created through
Christ means that He must have existed at creation.
c. No one else in Scripture is ever said to have been
with God before creation.
9. Texts which speak of the Son being begotten "today" do not
mean He became the Son on a certain day, since they refer to His
exaltation at the resurrection (Acts 13:33; Heb. 1:3-5; 5:5; cf. Psa.
2:7; cf. also Rom. 1:4).
F. Jesus is not the Holy Spirit
1. The Holy Spirit is "another Comforter": John 14:16; compare 1
John 2:1.
2. Jesus sent the Holy Spirit: John 15:26; 16:7.
3. The Holy Spirit exhibits humility in relation to, and seeks to
glorify, Jesus (John 16:13-14).
4. The Son and the Holy Spirit are distinguished as two persons in
Matt. 28:19.
5. The Holy Spirit descended upon Jesus: Luke 3:22.
6. Is Jesus the Holy Spirit?
a. 2 Cor. 3:17: the Spirit is here called "Lord" in the
sense of being Yahweh or God, not Jesus (cf. v. 16,
citing Ex. 34:34; cf. v. 17 in the Revised English
Bible); note Acts 28:25-27, cf. Isa. 6:8-10.
b. 1 Cor. 15:45: Jesus is "a life-giving Spirit," not in
the sense that He is the Holy Spirit whom He sent at
Pentecost, but in the sense that He is the glorified

 

[TheLearner]

God-man; and as God He is Spirit by nature. All
three persons of the Trinity are Spirit, though there
are not three divine Spirits; and only one person is
designated "the Holy Spirit."
c. Rom. 8:27, 34: the fact that two persons intercede
for us is consistent with the fact that we have two
Advocates (John 14:16; Rom. 8:26; 1 John 2:1).
d. John 14:18: Jesus here refers to His appearances
to the disciples after the resurrection (compare
14:19), not to the coming of the Spirit.
e. Jesus and the Holy Spirit are both involved in
various activities: raising Jesus (John 2:19-19-22);
Rom. 8:9-11), raising the dead (John 5:21; 6:39-40,
44, 54, Rom. 8:9-11), dwelling in the believer (John
14:16; 2 Cor. 13:5; Col. 1:27), interceding for the
believer (Rom. 8:26; Heb. 7:25), sanctifying
believers (Eph. 5:26; 1 Pet. 1:2), etc. These works
prove that the two persons are both God, but not
that Jesus is the Holy Spirit.
G. The Father is not the Holy Spirit
1. The Father sent the Holy Spirit: John 14:15; 15:26.
2. The Holy Spirit intercedes with the Father for us: Rom. 8:26-27.
3. The Father and the Holy Spirit are distinguished as two persons
in Matt. 28:19.
4. Is the Father the Holy Spirit?
a. Matt. 1:18; Luke 1:35: It is argued that the Holy
Spirit is the Father of the incarnate Son of God; this
argument ignores the fact that the "conception" is
not a product of physical union between a man and
a woman!
b. The Father and the Holy Spirit are both said to be
active in various activities; the resurrection of Jesus
(Gal. 1:1; Rom. 8:11), comforting Christians (2 Cor.
1:3-4; John 14:26), sanctifying Christians (Jude 1; 1
Pet. 1:2), etc. The most these facts prove is that the

 

[TheLearner]

IX. Conclusion: The Bible teaches the Trinity
A. All the elements of the doctrine are taught in Scripture.
1. One God
2. The Father is God.
3. The Son is God.
4. The Holy Spirit is God.
5. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three persons (i.e., they are
not each other, nor are they impersonal; they relate to one another
personally).

https://www.calvarychapelboston.com/Biblical Basis Trinity Bowman.pdf

 

[justbyfaith]

Please explain what you mean by "The Father, in the descending into time to take on an added nature of human flesh " . This line looks like Jesus Only false teachings. Thanks for clarification, Daniel

I have contended that the Father is a Spirit without flesh, inhabiting eternity; and that the Son is the same Spirit dwelling in flesh.

In my doctrine I attempt to emphasize the Oneness of the Lord in order to avoid the heresy of Tritheism.

However, I want to make it clear that I believe that there are distinctions between the members of the Trinity.

The Father is a Spirit without flesh; the Son is the same Spirit / essence dwelling in flesh. The Holy Ghost is the same essence / Spirit released into eternity to exist side-by-side with the Father; and He also has lived a human life as He is the Spirit of Jesus Christ; released out of Jesus' body into eternity.

It can be said that the son that was given has the name of "The everlasting Father" (Isaiah 9:6) because they are the same Spirit / essence.

The Father inhabits eternity without flesh; the Son dwells in human flesh; the Holy Ghost also inhabits eternity and descends into time to do His work.

The Holy Ghost understands humanity because He was released from the body of the Son and therefore has been human (Luke 23:46) or at the very least has indwelt a human and is the Spirit of Jesus Christ (while He is also distinct from the Son in that He was released from His body and comes to dwell within the saints; and in that mode He is not the Son because He is not dwelling within the flesh of Jesus Christ.

Someone may jump on the fact that I said the word, "mode". Let me explain. The Holy Ghost (the 3rd Person of the Trinity) dwells in the flesh of Jesus Christ but also was released from the Person of Jesus Christ and as a distinct Person comes to dwell within our hearts, who believe in Him. He is in a different mode as He dwells within the Person of the Son than as He dwells within each one of us. That is all I am saying; not that God exists in three different modes or other such nonsense. I believe in three distinct Persons in the Trinity who are in essence the same Spirit, the same Lord, and the same God.

The distinction, in my view, is in the hypostatic union. The 1st Person of the Trinity is not unified with humanity in the hypostatic union; while I will say that the same Spirit as the Father, in the Person of the Son (2nd Person of the Trinity), is unified with humanity in the hypostatic union.

 

[rayzor]

THEOLOGY
noun: hypostatic union

1. the combination of divine and human natures in the single person of Christ.

 

[justbyfaith]

This is FALSE DOCTRINE. Beware of false teachers! .

That the Son was begotten in the incarnation is clear in Matthew 1:20, Luke 1:35.

And I am not by this indicating that Jesus is not eternally existent in heaven (Psalms 90:2 is just as true of the Son as it is of the Father).

For He ascended to fill all things (Ephesians 4:10); and that means that He exists outside of time in His ascended form.

 

[rayzor]

This is FALSE DOCTRINE. Beware of false teachers!

The Son was begotten by the Father in eternity past since HE is the eternal Son of God. And the Person of the Holy Ghost is DISTINCT from that of the Son. Here is the proper and biblical doctrine of the Trinity:

GOD THE FATHER IS NEITHER THE SON NOR THE HOLY SPIRIT
GOD THE SON IS NEITHER THE FATHER NOR THE HOLY SPIRIT
GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT IS NEITHER THE FATHER NOR THE SON

MATTHEW 3: THE HOLY TRINITY AT THE BAPTISM OF CHRIST
16 And Jesus [THE SON], when He was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto Him, and He saw the Spirit of God [THE HOLY SPIRIT] descending like a dove, and lighting upon Him: 17 And lo a voice from Heaven [THE VOICE OF THE FATHER], saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

on that premise are their 3 gods not 1 god correct?