What do you think about works?

[Icedaisey]

Not sure if I am going to stay on this Forum site for very long....

Is it just me, or do most of these threads end up in arguments and not really accomplishing anything positive?

I hope to find some more uplifting content soon. I will keep searching! =)

In every busy Christian forum you'll find adversaries to the true spirit if the Gospel. The motives vary as to why worldly conflict stirrers join.

There is also the ignore feature if it gets too much for you.

See, if you leave due to the conflict, well, that's what lovers of conflict want. That's why they berate the truth of God as Christ.

And, there's another thing to consider. If you can't face the foot soldiers of the adversary in an anonymous form in print on the net, how are you going to handle it face to face?

In the end of days, they lose. Which means they're blasting hot air while there is still time.

Stick around. God's army doesn't run. We don't flee the field of battle wherever it may appear.
If you leave you give the enemy a reward for their efforts.
One last Christian to deal with.

 

[Icedaisey]

that is not what you ask in your op

we can all read and that is not what you are on about

once again, you are accusing people who disagree with your premise on law and works of living a life devoid of following Christ. you want everyone to follow the law so that you can judge whether or not they are actually believers

judging others is not your territory. take care of the tree in your own eye

here, straight from your op is what you are really poking around in....yet again and without cessation

"judging others is not your territory. take care of the tree in your own eye"
How could you see that for the oak in yours?
Your hypocrisy is self defeating.

You can't even read Blik's OP for what it actually says.

You just charge against her. It appears it's as something personal.

 

[Icedaisey]

We go to scripture to learn about God, and we go to sites such as this to discuss what we learn. It tells us how others interpret scripture, it lets us learn of different ways of interpreting it. If we put a stop to "arguments" but demand that no one think about what it says but only agree with others, it stops discussion.

There is no ban put on people who disobey the Lord when he told us about not judging others, to only judge what is sin. When we are given a description of murder and told not to do that, some use this site to disobey the Lord. But there are Christians on here who discuss scripture as as Isaiah said, that is good.

We are told, when we judge to use righteous judgement and not judge based on appearances.

Offenders with a purpose resort to invoking an excerpt from Jesus' SotM in Matthew 5. But ignore all in Matthew 7.

What many of us here are doing, are committed to it appears, is that which is taught in John 7, Galatians 6, and when invited, 1 John 4, 2nd Timothy 4, Jude 1, and 2nd Peter 2.

 

[Blik]

especially the golden calf episode. ARE YOU KIDDING? read the OT prophets...



like I said...over and over and over and over and over zzzzzzzzzzzz

who is Jesus to you? is He the lawgiver or is He the spotless Lamb of God who died for our sins? you appear to be very confused on this issue and entrenched in that confusion so that you make up what others are saying

yet, you become incensed when others deny what you keep saying is the abandonment of all morality.

it is alarming that you appear to believe you can add to what Jesus accomplished on the cross on our behalf. it seems you wish to interject when Jesus says 'IT IS FINISHED'

you continually interrupt and say 'wait a minute Jesus...that sounds too easy....how about my attempts to keep the law?'

So to you I am incensed and you are alarmed. Oh My. Now you are attempting to keep the law? Then keep the "you" out of your posts and only speak of scripture.

I certainly didn't mean to pull your tail, I wish you could forget whatever it was and back off. I love discussions of scripture and to hear what you have to say about scripture, but the discussion with you becomes blaming "blik". I don't think that is discussing scripture.

 

[BornAgainBrandon]

Sadly, you're correct. Most threads in this particular forum do end up in arguments. However, you might find the Family, Miscellaneous, and Singles forums a bit less... combative.

Thank you for this suggestion you are 100% correct! I found some good stuff =)

 

[Dino246]

Are gentiles allowed to listen to what God told the Hebrews because God wanted all men to belong to him, or is it a private conversation between God and Hebrews and we really shouldn't be reading and listening to those laws?

Where do you get the idea that, just because God gave the Law to the Jews, that we shouldn't be reading it? I haven't said or hinted at anything of the sort. What I do say is that we as Christians are not subject to the Law as given to Israel through Moses. Read it all you like, but remember that Christians are not subject to it! Our relationship with God is through Christ, not through obedience to the Law.

You keep repeating God spoke to the Jews. We know the gentiles had a policy at that time of not listening to God. After Christ and Paul we take that back. Are we to listen now, or do you think it was to Hebrews only then and now. I have read statements you have made that the laws of Moses where given to Hebrews only, we aren't included. Then you take that back saying that we are included in the Holy Spirit.

You have a strange way of re-interpreting my words. I said that God gave the Law to the Jews (Hebrews), not to the gentiles; I have said nothing remotely like, "we aren't included". I also said nothing remotely like 'now we are included in the Holy Spirit".

 

[Dino246]

Are gentiles allowed to listen to what God told the Hebrews because God wanted all men to belong to him, or is it a private conversation between God and Hebrews and we really shouldn't be reading and listening to those laws?

Romans 15:4 For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through the endurance taught in the Scriptures and the encouragement they provide we might have hope.

 

[Cabrillo]

I've met these type people so, don't underestimate the presence of Antisemitism that insists on that divisive language and (lack of) understanding.

An ex-con rewrote the new testament to fit that ideology. A white supremacists who started and redefined the teachings themselve into Christogenia.

We who are circumcised of the heart have the law of God written in our hearts. Several times Disciples were caught breaking man's laws. Mainly by disobeying the leaders and/or Sanhedrin. Peter said which law should we obey? God's law or mans law. You be the judge.

 

[Blik]

Where do you get the idea that, just because God gave the Law to the Jews, that we shouldn't be reading it?

That is just how I interpret scripture, that just because God gave his truths to the Jews it wasn't something we shouldn't listen to. God is truth, God only speaks truth.

God didn't want the gentiles called the nations in the OT to reject him and use man made idols instead of the true God.

 

[Cabrillo]

Just study the letter to the Hebrews for a few days.

 

[Icedaisey]

Just study the letter to the Hebrews for a few days.

Why?

 

[Blik]

We are told, when we judge to use righteous judgement and not judge based on appearances.

Offenders with a purpose resort to invoking an excerpt from Jesus' SotM in Matthew 5. But ignore all in Matthew 7.

What many of us here are doing, are committed to it appears, is that which is taught in John 7, Galatians 6, and when invited, 1 John 4, 2nd Timothy 4, Jude 1, and 2nd Peter 2.

I have done a lot of thinking about what the Lord meant by the instructions on how to judge and not judge. I think we are to judge what is sin.

When people were kicked out of church because of sin in their life, they were judged, but not as people but the sin they were committing was judged. They were welcomed back any time they got rid of the sin, or do you think my thoughts about them being welcomed back if they got rid of their sin is my idea and not the way it was?

What do you think "judging righteously" means?

 

[Dino246]

That is just how I interpret scripture, that just because God gave his truths to the Jews it wasn't something we shouldn't listen to. God is truth, God only speaks truth.

God said, "I will bless those who bless you, and him who dishonors you I will curse, and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed." Is that for you, Blik? No; it was specifically for Abram. It wasn't for Moses, it wasn't for David, and it wasn't for Paul. Does that mean you shouldn't read it? No, but it does mean that it does not apply to you. It's the same with the Law; you can and should read it, but it was not given to you, and it does not apply to you.

God didn't want the gentiles called the nations in the OT to reject him and use man made idols instead of the true God.

However, He did not give them the Law, because He had a different strategy to bring them back, which would come about through the fulfillment of the Law, rather than through their obedience to it.

 

[Cabrillo]

Why?

It explains why the law needed to be changed and why the old preisthood needed to be changed also. How Jesus's offering was once for all and why we no longer need to make various offerings. To keep the communication open between ourselves and God. Sin is separation between us and God. Thru the Lords Grace, He bridged that gap.

 

[BroTan]

In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus teaches his disciples, saying, "In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven." (Matthew 5:16 NIV)

But just a little bit later he tells them, "Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them." (Matthew 6:1 NIV)

These two admonishments seem to be in contradiction with one another; but since they come so close together, it seems like there is probably a way to harmonize them. Are there different types of good deeds one should or should not do before men? What did Jesus mean by each of these statements if they don't contradict one another?

Many posters on this site warn against working because we are saved by faith not works. They add that we can never earn our salvation through works, and our works is not looked at by the Lord to achieve righteousness, that is only given to us as a gift. They feel these things mean we must be careful of our works.

For 300 years the church was led by either the men who knew Christ or were trained by these men. They said that Christ wanted us to live transformed lives, that faith in Christ included faith in all he said and to have faith in him was to live for him. They weren’t interested much in doctrine, they thought people understood scripture differently. They stood united in the core of beliefs and guarded against adding or taking from that core but were tolerant of differences in interpretation. There were heresies they argued against, but would never force their beliefs.

What do you think the Lord wants from us?

Paul said in (Gal. 6 (v.3) For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself. (v.4) But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another. The book says let every man prove his own work, and if your work is good then you will rejoice in it. (v.5) For every man shall bear his own burden. That’s right; every man must bear his own burden. You mean you thought that all you had to do was confess the name of Jesus and that was it? Brothers and sisters you must work to get salvation. (v.7) Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. God is not to be played with. Whatsoever you plant, that’s what you are going to reap. Be it good works unto eternal life, or evil works unto eternal damnation. The choice is yours, and your works belong to you.

Jesus says in Revelation 22: 12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

People we must realize, that it is the keeping of God’s holy laws that separates the righteous from the unrighteous. (Titus: 3:8) This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men. You must learn (by the word of God) what God expects of you and maintain his expectations to the end, if you expect to be saved.

 

[Icedaisey]

We who are circumcised of the heart have the law of God written in our hearts. Several times Disciples were caught breaking man's laws. Mainly by disobeying the leaders and/or Sanhedrin. Peter said which law should we obey? God's law or mans law. You be the judge.

Romans 13:1-14 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.

Titus 3:1 Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work,


1 John 2:4 Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him,

Romans 2:13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.

John 14:15 “If you love me, you will keep my commandments."

Colossians 3:22 Slaves, obey in everything those who are your earthly masters, not by way of eye-service, as people-pleasers, but with sincerity of heart, fearing the Lord.

Matthew 17:24-27 When they came to Capernaum, the collectors of the two-drachma tax went up to Peter and said, “Does your teacher not pay the tax?” He said, “Yes.” And when he came into the house, Jesus spoke to him first, saying, “What do you think, Simon? From whom do kings of the earth take toll or tax? From their sons or from others?” And when he said, “From others,” Jesus said to him, “Then the sons are free. However, not to give offense to them, go to the sea and cast a hook and take the first fish that comes up, and when you open its mouth you will find a shekel. Take that and give it to them for me and for yourself.”

John 15:14 You are my friends if you do what I command you.

 

[Icedaisey]

I have done a lot of thinking about what the Lord meant by the instructions on how to judge and not judge. I think we are to judge what is sin.

When people were kicked out of church because of sin in their life, they were judged, but not as people but the sin they were committing was judged. They were welcomed back any time they got rid of the sin, or do you think my thoughts about them being welcomed back if they got rid of their sin is my idea and not the way it was?

What do you think "judging righteously" means?

Well, we know there are some who think the Bible tells us we should not judge anyone.
That is of course not true.
The moral integrity of the church would fail.

The passage about judgement that tells us to remove the plank from our eye before we judge another means we should consider, when judgement of another is made necessary, to consider our past, our weaknesses, if they in any wise relate to the behavior or failing we're now being asked to judge.
However, when we judge we're to do as Christ instructed, Jesus spoke, saying, "I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me."
We can empathize as judges, but we can't let our personal opinions enter in. To lead the church in right behaviors, we need to look to what God in his word defines as moral and righteous behavior. And from there proceed.

 

[rayzor]

Well, we know there are some who think the Bible tells us we should not judge anyone.
That is of course not true.
The moral integrity of the church would fail.

The passage about judgement that tells us to remove the plank from our eye before we judge another means we should consider, when judgement of another is made necessary, to consider our past, our weaknesses, if they in any wise relate to the behavior or failing we're now being asked to judge.
However, when we judge we're to do as Christ instructed, Jesus spoke, saying, "I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me."
We can empathize as judges, but we can't let our personal opinions enter in. To lead the church in right behaviors, we need to look to what God in his word defines as moral and righteous behavior. And from there proceed.

Icedaisey.....I hate to play semantics here [discernment not judgment]

 

[Icedaisey]

God said, "I will bless those who bless you, and him who dishonors you I will curse, and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed." Is that for you, Blik? No; it was specifically for Abram. It wasn't for Moses, it wasn't for David, and it wasn't for Paul. Does that mean you shouldn't read it? No, but it does mean that it does not apply to you. It's the same with the Law; you can and should read it, but it was not given to you, and it does not apply to you.


However, He did not give them the Law, because He had a different strategy to bring them back, which would come about through the fulfillment of the Law, rather than through their obedience to it.

The mistake in your Exegesis regarding the law and Jesus remarks about it in Matthew 5 is when he said he did not come to abolish the law.
He came to live the law by example, perfectly. He fulfilled the law by giving the full meaning to the laws obedience as it was meant to be followed.

Isaiah 42:21 “The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will MAGNIFY the law, and make it honourable.”

 

[Dino246]

The mistake in your Exegesis regarding the law and Jesus remarks about it in Matthew 5 is when he said he did not come to abolish the law.
He came to live the law by example, perfectly. He fulfilled the law by giving the full meaning to the laws obedience as it was meant to be followed.

Isaiah 42:21 “The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will MAGNIFY the law, and make it honourable.”

There is no mistake in my exegesis.

Hebrews 8:7 For if the first covenant had been faultless there would have been no occasion to look for a second.

Hebrews 8:13a In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete.