How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

[TheLearner]

2 Thessalonians 1

Easy-to-Read Version



1 Greetings from Paul, Silas, and Timothy.
To the church of those in Thessalonica, who are in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Grace and peace to you from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 We thank God for you always. And that’s what we should do, because you give us good reason to be thankful: Your faith is growing more and more. And the love that every one of you has for each other is also growing. 4 So we tell the other churches of God how proud we are of you. We tell them how you patiently continue to be strong and have faith, even though you are being persecuted and are suffering many troubles.
Paul Tells About God’s Judgment
5 This is proof that God is right in his judgment. He wants you to be worthy of his kingdom. Your suffering is for that kingdom. 6 God will do what is right. He will punish those who are causing you trouble. 7 And he will bring relief to you who are troubled. He will bring it to you and to us when the Lord Jesus comes from heaven for all to see, together with his powerful angels. 8 He will come with burning fire to punish those who don’t know God—those who refuse to accept the Good News about our Lord Jesus. 9 They will be punished with a destruction that never ends. They will not be allowed to be with the Lord but will be kept away from his great power. 10 This will happen on the day when the Lord Jesus comes to receive honor with his holy people. He will be admired among all who have believed. And this includes you because you believed what we told you.
11 That is why we always pray for you. We ask our God to help you live the good way he wanted when he chose you. The goodness you have makes you want to do good. And the faith you have makes you work. We pray that with his power God will help you do these things more and more. 12 Then the name of our Lord Jesus will be honored because of you, and you will be honored because of him. This can happen only by the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[TheLearner]

As you can see from the last three posts all three chapters relate to the Second Coming --- Not to two different events.

 

[TheLearner]

Which "harvest"?? (there is more than one "harvest" in Scripture" and in nature)

Which "firstfruit"?? (there is more than one "firstfruit" in Scripture and in nature; Leviticus 23 mentions TWO distinct "firstfruit"; James 1:18 says that we are "a KIND of firstfruit". Which "kind," and regarding which "harvest"??)





--the "WHEAT" is harvested by means of a "tribulum" [harvesting imlplement];

--the EARLIER harvest, however, by means of tossing up INTO THE AIR, and BLOWING away the chaff

Huh? why confuse figurative language?









P.S. welcome to CC... hope to see you around the boards = )

 

[TheLearner]

No Speakers

 

[TheLearner]

and interpreted
PHRASE
h8638
וּמְתֻרְגָּם תַּרְגֵּםtargēm Ezra 4:7

I do not see the link to the targum, thanks maybe I am just tired.

 

[TheLearner]

No. The "law" is the Torah (the first 5 books of the Hebrew Scriptures.

No, I don't believe this because I am not a senseless ruler.
Solomon is explaining how lazy, drunk, irresponsible rulers live and think.
If you ignore this context, I can see why you think Solomon agrees with this worldly principle. If you read his proverbs, you will see that he clearly does not.

Did you know the Bible also says "there is no God"?
(with context) "the fool says in his heart 'there is no God'".

Context matters.

Context matters is my mantra

 

[TheLearner]

This is all really interesting...but has nothing to do with Ecclesiastes 11:19, which you applied in error.

Going back to the inerrancy of the Bible. Every word of it came out of God's mouth. Since He cannot lie, He cannot contradict Himself...meaning the human writers of the Bible were writing something that did not contradict itself. So if someone translates a verse in such a way that it contradicts other clear Scripture, then that translation is incorrect. Correct translations of words will never contradict the rest of the Scripture. It is perfect. it is flawless. It is without error. It is consistent. It is sharp and alive. And it is not imprisoned.

This is why Paul told Titus to appoint elders in the churches who could "exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict" (Titus 2-9).
Those whose teaching contradicts God's word are unfit for the task.
Their teachings are dangerous to "the sheep of His pasture" (Ps 100:3, John 10:16).

No translation is infallible at all. Only the original Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic texts which no one today has.

 

[TheLearner]

Diakonos Ecclesiastes 11:19, thanks 4 that vs.That's the fallecy Their teachings are dangerous to "the sheep of His pasture..no their dangerous to our so called enemy..It shall be said at the right time. There is no enchantment against Jacob

stopped at post 553 wife says it is bed time

 

[eternally-gratefull]

When a conquer comes to a town the people go out to greet him and escort him back into the city. That is my understanding of the language used. I do not have time to post commentaries.

So we are going to escort Jesus back to earth?

Jesus is not coming to conquer my friend.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That is just the opinion someone taught you by book or in person.

Nope

That is what I found studying the topic.

If your going to converse with me. Please stop thinking you know where I got my info. Its rude.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

1 Thessalonians 4

Easy-to-Read Version



A Life That Pleases God
4 Brothers and sisters, now I have some other things to tell you. We taught you how to live in a way that will please God. And you are living that way. Now we ask and encourage you in the Lord Jesus to live that way more and more. 2 You know all that we told you to do by the authority of the Lord Jesus. 3 God wants you to be holy. He wants you to stay away from sexual sins. 4 God wants each one of you to learn to control your own body. Use your body in a way that is holy and that gives honor to God.[a] 5 Don’t let your sexual desires control you like the people who don’t know God. 6 Never wrong any of your fellow believers or cheat them in this way. The Lord will punish those who do that. We have already told you this and warned you about it. 7 God chose us to be holy. He does not want us to live in sin. 8 So anyone who refuses to obey this teaching is refusing to obey God, not us. And God is the one who gives you his Holy Spirit.
9 We don’t need to write to you about having love for your brothers and sisters in Christ. God has already taught you to love each other. 10 In fact, you love all the believers in Macedonia. We encourage you now, brothers and sisters, to show your love more and more.
11 Do all you can to live a peaceful life. Mind your own business, and earn your own living, as we told you before. 12 If you do these things, then those who are not believers will respect the way you live. And you will not have to depend on others for what you need.
The Lord’s Coming
13 Brothers and sisters, we want you to know about those who have died. We don’t want you to be sad like other people—those who have no hope. 14 We believe that Jesus died, but we also believe that he rose again. So we believe that God will raise to life through Jesus any who have died and bring them together with him when he comes.
15 What we tell you now is the Lord’s own message. Those of us who are still living when the Lord comes again will join him, but not before those who have already died. 16 The Lord himself will come down from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. And the people who have died and were in Christ will rise first. 17 After that we who are still alive at that time will be gathered up with those who have died. We will be taken up in the clouds and meet the Lord in the air. And we will be with the Lord forever. 18 So encourage each other with these words.
Footnotes

1. 1 Thessalonians 4:4 Or “God wants each of you to learn to live with your wife in a way that is holy and that gives honor to God.”

1 Thessalonians 5

Easy-to-Read Version



Be Ready for the Lord’s Coming
5 Now, brothers and sisters, we don’t need to write to you about times and dates. 2 You know very well that the day when the Lord comes again will be a surprise, like a thief who comes at night. 3 People will say, “We have peace and we are safe.” At that time destruction will come to them quickly, like the pains of a woman giving birth. And those people will not escape.
4 But you, brothers and sisters, are not living in darkness. And so that day will not surprise you like a thief. 5 You are all people who belong to the light. You belong to the day. We don’t belong to the night or to darkness. 6 So we should not be like other people. We should not be sleeping. We should be awake and have self-control. 7 People who sleep, sleep at night. People who drink too much, drink at night. 8 But we belong to the day, so we should control ourselves. We should wear faith and love to protect us. And the hope of salvation should be our helmet.
9 God did not choose us to suffer his anger. God chose us to have salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. 10 Jesus died for us so that we can live together with him. It is not important if we are alive or dead when Jesus comes. 11 So encourage each other and help each other grow stronger in faith, just as you are already doing.
Final Instructions and Greetings
12 Now brothers and sisters, we ask you to recognize the value of those who work hard among you—those who, as followers of the Lord, care for you and tell you how to live. 13 Show them the highest respect and love because of the work they do.
Live in peace with each other. 14 We ask you, brothers and sisters, to warn those who will not work. Encourage those who are afraid. Help those who are weak. Be patient with everyone. 15 Be sure that no one pays back wrong for wrong. But always try to do what is good for each other and for all people.
16 Always be full of joy. 17 Never stop praying. 18 Whatever happens, always be thankful. This is how God wants you to live in Christ Jesus.
19 Don’t stop the work of the Holy Spirit. 20 Don’t treat prophecy like something that is not important. 21 But test everything. Keep what is good, 22 and stay away from everything that is evil.
23 We pray that God himself, the God of peace, will make you pure—belonging only to him. We pray that your whole self—spirit, soul, and body—will be kept safe and be blameless when our Lord Jesus Christ comes. 24 The one who chose you will do that for you. You can trust him.
25 Brothers and sisters, please pray for us. 26 Give all the brothers and sisters the special greeting of God’s people.[a] 27 I tell you by the authority of the Lord to read this letter to all the believers there. 28 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.
Footnotes

1. 1 Thessalonians 5:26 the special greeting of God’s people Literally, “a holy kiss.”

This does not refute my point my friend.

 

[Nehemiah6]

The tribulation period is the wrath of God on mankind?

Many falsely claim that the Tribulation period is not the wrath of God. But since the Tribulation and reign of the Antichrist run together, and since the latter is an expression of the wrath of God as per 2 Thessalonians 2, it should be obvious that BOTH the Tribulation and the Great Tribulation are expressions of the wrath of God and of the Lamb. Coincidentally the wrath of Satan is also expressed at this time, since he knows that his time is short (before his eternal damnation).

Now since (1) believers are NOT appointed to wrath and (2) not a single passage with reference to the Resurrection/Rapture speaks of any tribulation, Christians should be confident that there will be a Pre-Tribulation Rapture (which may not even be too far away).

 

[ewq1938]

Many falsely claim that the Tribulation period is not the wrath of God.

And many falsely claim the Tribulation is the wrath of God when it is the wrath of Satan who brings tribulation against Christians during that time period as Christ told us in the Olivet Discourse as well as what Revelation 11 and 13, and the last part of chp 12 tells us. Claiming the tribulation is the wrath of God is unscriptural non-sense. Revv 11 clearly tells us the wrath of God comes when 7th trump sounds and that's when the trib ends.

 

[Nehemiah6]

And many falsely claim the Tribulation is the wrath of God when it is the wrath of Satan

Satan is merely an instrument in the hands of God. So you are seriously mistaken. His wrath is nothing compared to the wrath of God and of the Lamb.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Many falsely claim that the Tribulation period is not the wrath of God. But since the Tribulation and reign of the Antichrist run together, and since the latter is an expression of the wrath of God as per 2 Thessalonians 2, it should be obvious that BOTH the Tribulation and the Great Tribulation are expressions of the wrath of God and of the Lamb. Coincidentally the wrath of Satan is also expressed at this time, since he knows that his time is short (before his eternal damnation).

Now since (1) believers are NOT appointed to wrath and (2) not a single passage with reference to the Resurrection/Rapture speaks of any tribulation, Christians should be confident that there will be a Pre-Tribulation Rapture (which may not even be too far away).

Agreed! Though Satan becomes angry after he and his angels are cast out of heaven, that time period should not be referred to as Satan's wrath, because his being cast out is the result of the sounding of the 7th trumpet, which is God's wrath. Satan is simply angry at that time because he knows that he only has 3 1/2 years left before the Lord returns to the earth to end the age and will be restricted in the Abyss.

 

[tanakh]

The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.

Flannery O'Connor 1925 - 1964

Now we beseech you brethren by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ
and by our gathering together unto him. That ye be not shaken
in mind or be troubled neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us
that as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means
for that day shall not come except there come a falling away first, and that man
of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.

2 Thess 2 1-3 KJV

I have actually seen this text being used as proof of a pre trib rapture
Anyone with any sense would wonder how. The answer is that its thought
that falling away means falling upwards or off the earth!! I have never seen
anyone fall upwards myself, Perhaps I should get out more.

Point is that Paul gives the order of events to the Thessalonians and it shows that
he expected many believers to stop following Christ and leave the Church before
the son of Perdition appears.

Many believe that this son of perdition (destruction) is some political figure
sometimes but not always a democrat who is waiting in the wings for his
chance to rule the world. Its interesting that the only other mention in the
bible of the son of perdition is Judas Iscariot who was an Apostle in the inner circle
of Christs Disciples. It has been suggested that Paul had a Christian in mind when
he used the title.

The text goes on to him sitting in the Temple of God. It could be that he was not thinking
about a stone temple but the Church as the body of Christ. Any future stone Temple could
not be a Temple of God. Christ did away with Temples and Sacrifices within the generation
that crucified him.


a temple of God

 

[GaryA]

His wrath is nothing compared to the wrath of God and of the Lamb.

Exactly!

That is why the 'Wrath of God' is singled-out in the description of the 'Vials'.

The 'Trumpet' events - as "horrible" as they are - are not even part of the 'Wrath of God'.

The 'Vials' are the 'Wrath of God'.

The 'Trumpet' events are not.

The 'Seal' descriptions are not.

The 'Tribulation' details are not.

In 'event' terms, there is no overlap between '[Great] Tribulation' and the 'Wrath of God'. In fact, there is a span of time that is [at least] 3.5 years "sandwiched" between them.

Order of Events:

[Great] Tribulation (ends)
Two Witnesses / Trumpet Events
(Jesus)
Resurrection and Rapture
Wrath of God

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

So we are going to escort Jesus back to earth?

Jesus is not coming to conquer my friend.

Yes, exactly.
The warrior king coming to conquer is pretty much the central message of all prophecy.
We will join him in royal procession and serve him in his kingdom.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

that day shall not come except there come a falling away first, and that man
of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.
2 Thess 2 1-3 KJV
I have actually seen this text being used as proof of a pre trib rapture
Anyone with any sense would wonder how. The answer is that its thought
that falling away means falling upwards or off the earth!! I have never seen
anyone fall upwards myself, Perhaps I should get out more.

First off, the word in the text is NOT "fall"... the Greeks had a word for "to fall"--"pipto"--and the word in verse 3 is NOT THAT word.



But imagine for a minute (just for argument's sake) that it *were* the word "fall" (it's not!)

Is this guy trying to tell us he's never heard the term "fall out" used in the following sense (if not, he really DOESN'T "get out" enough! lol)


[from a dictionary]

"Fall Out Meaning
Fall Out is an idiom. The meaning of this idiom is (figuratively) To leave one's current location to report for duty at a new location."

[end quoting https://www.urdupoint.com/dictionary/idioms/2079/fall-out.html ; bold/underline mine]


____________


... but again... the word is NOT "fall" or "fall away"...the Greeks had a word for "fall/to fall"-- "pipto"--and this is NOT the word used in v.3.



Rather, the word is "apostasia" ("later form for apostasis"-per Liddell and Scott Greek-English Lexicon [1871]--"apo stasis" - "a standing away from [from a previous standing]")


[from BibleHub]

"HELPS Word-studies
646 apostasía (from 868 /aphístēmi, "leave, depart," which is derived from 575 /apó, "away from" and 2476 /histémi, "stand") – properly, departure (implying desertion); apostasy – literally, "a leaving, from a previous standing.""

[end quoting; bold and underline emphasis mine]



... and in the case of our text here (v.3) it is used with the definite article ("the"--"THE departure"--the one Paul had JUST referred to in the text previously)

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ Again, I suggest to the readers they compare the wording between that of 2Th2:7b-8a and that of Lam2:3 (and also the "in flaming fire" of Lam2:3 with that found in 2Th1:7-8, where verse 8 is referring to a DURATION OF TIME / TIME PERIOD, not merely a singular 24-hr day, the day of His "RETURN". No.)



--Lam2:3 "he hath DRAWN BACK HIS RIGHT HAND FROM BEFORE the enemy" (i.e. lifting the restraint, letting "the enemy" have at it!!)--v.3 also uses the phrase "in flaming fire" (and context is NOT merely on "one day")

--2Th2:7b-8a "the one restraining at present, will restrain, UNTIL out of the midst he be come [/come to be]. AND THEN [kai tote] shall that Wicked be revealed..."