Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Be careful, or we'll hear Jesus being accused of being a lawyer. :rolleyes:

Law breakers hate lawyers.

Have you noticed a correlation between those who insist God's laws are vacated, no longer have merit at all, with those who insist we have to labor, work, to retain our Salvation? Because it is not eternal and we can lose it by our own choice or actions?

I've encountered many like that. It's a blessing in that they in their own words then prove they're not to be taken seriously when denying first that God's laws are finished.

Probably shouldn't have said that though. If any of those type folk happen on that they may change their tactics.:unsure:
LOl Jesus loved lawyers. He spent his time trying to convince them to repent. And ended up allowing them to kill him. Because they refused to acknowledge what jesus said about them were true.

Wh0 said Gods laws are vacated? I have yet to hear anyone say this. Can you show us a person who said this?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
You will never reach someone who is blind to the truth.
We know. We have seen it here for years.
Jesus foresaw false teachers committed to the work of their father.
Which is why millionaire false megachurch wolves are so easily dismissed.

Jesus said, sell all you have and follow him. That to be an Apostle of his word would mean to let those who received them and the Good News, sustain them with food, shelter.
Which means a Paula White abomination who arrives in the church parking lot and while driving a Rolls Royce is a literal damned fraud.

God gives us his holy spirit to indwell the Christian so that we are able to ascertain his truth, his anointed ministers of his word, as well as to identify the damned. Those Mammon worshiping liars and those committed to injecting contradictory teachings into forums dedicated to praising Gods truth.

I browsed a forum a few years ago. A person claiming to be a preacher for the truth of God was a member then.
Oh, the chaos they installed into that BDF.
Astonishing bolder dash and blatant blasphemies they argues as gospel.

I returned weeks later to see if that newbie was still being tolerated. They weren't. Praise God.

They're out there though. Some are atheists pretending to believe, just to argue false doctrine and upset real believers.
They don't believe in God. They just believe they'll spend time upsetting Gods people.

We can't argue with the Devil's own. If they knew truth they'd not hold allegiance with the pit destined loser.
We are talking about the law and it usefulness in a persons life

Please try to stick to the topic.

You are misrepresenting people who are trying to discuss things with you. Because you do not like what they say.

If your do nt like what they say, the least you can do is prove you understand what they are saying
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Jesus gave a lot more than 10 commands, commandments to obey when on earth.
Another one, or is she one f the old lawyers returned?
 
Nov 17, 2017
595
409
63
I gave scripture stating other purposes of the law, what more can I do?
Good Evening!

You posted scripture, but there is a specific question thats was asked "But, what other purpose did/ does the Law have other than showing man he could not or CANNOT keep the Law? "

Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Man cannot keep "the law", never could AND never will until, Glorification..........

God bless
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
No, I am not doing that at all

I am trying to let you know HOW and what EMPOWERS us to do obey

Your the one twisting the truth my friend. By refusing to acknowledge the purpose of the law
What empowers us to obey is the Lord's presence in our hearts, I don't find that in your posts, I am sorry.

I cannot for the life of me see how saying that you will not recognize any scripture about law except what the one is telling us is what empowers us. To me it is ignoring scripture and recognizing only one aspect of the law.

I am not posting that there is only one purpose of the law, my post is to say I believe ALL scripture about the law, including the one you recognize.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
What empowers us to obey is the Lord's presence in our hearts, I don't find that in your posts, I am sorry.
Actually I have said that the reason we obey is BECAUSE GOD LOVED US FIRST.

So thanks for proving once again, You do not pay attention to what people tell you. You have been told this by so many people. That it is GOD IN US, based on HIS MERCY AND GRACE in forgiving us who do not deserve salvation and coming into us (god in us) that empowers us to love others. Which in turn makes us obedient servants of God

I cannot for the life of me see how saying that you will not recognize any scripture about law except what the one is telling us is what empowers us. To me it is ignoring scripture and recognizing only one aspect of the law.

I am not posting that there is only one purpose of the law, my post is to say I believe ALL scripture about the law, including the one you recognize.
I can’t for the life of me see how you can look to the law. WHICH CONDEMNS YOU WERE YOU STAND, and think you are able to keep it.

Why do you wanted down the law so much that you think your ok? Why do you think you can keep something that was given to PROVE to you you CAN’T keep it?
 
Nov 17, 2017
595
409
63
OSAS

Once a Son Always a Son

Sealed.

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

NOTHING anyone or you, yourself can do about it......
God Bless!
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
OSAS

Once a Son Always a Son

Sealed.

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

NOTHING anyone or you, yourself can do about it......
God Bless!
Eternal life is eternal. John said I know I have it.

Its sad all those who want to teach conditional life. By refusing to remove self from the equation.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
Good Evening!

You posted scripture, but there is a specific question thats was asked "But, what other purpose did/ does the Law have other than showing man he could not or CANNOT keep the Law? "

Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Man cannot keep "the law", never could AND never will until, Glorification..........

God bless
I also had such a time with these scriptures. I know God is truth, and God never disputes what God tells us, yet here are verses that disputes the word of other verses. I knew it was not the Lord disputing with the Lord, it was a fault of my understanding so I devoted several months to searching for the truth of these verses. I even went to ancient history to find out what the words meant at people of that time. History can be deceptive, so I had to search for the truest authors. Here is what I found.

Many were attracted to Judaism and joined, only to find the pagan world was more fun. They took the Jews with them to their parties. Jewish rulers of the faith decided to require them to obey the "law of Moses" like diet and fleshly circumcision to join. They made 18 rules that historians of that time tell of but don't list those rules, and the people strongly objected. Paul met with James as we are told in Acts about this. Paul wrote about it, and we are reading "the law of Moses" as we think of those laws today, they wrote those words knowing everyone understood it was the rites of Judaism they were speaking of, not the spirit of the law that scripture tells us is eternal.

This sums up months of intense study and I am sure many will reject it. Some people will accept my study, comparing it to scripture to be sure it follows the truth.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
Actually I have said that the reason we obey is BECAUSE GOD LOVED US FIRST.

So thanks for proving once again, You do not pay attention to what people tell you. You have been told this by so many people. That it is GOD IN US, based on HIS MERCY AND GRACE in forgiving us who do not deserve salvation and coming into us (god in us) that empowers us to love others. Which in turn makes us obedient servants of God



I can’t for the life of me see how you can look to the law. WHICH CONDEMNS YOU WERE YOU STAND, and think you are able to keep it.

Why do you wanted down the law so much that you think your ok? Why do you think you can keep something that was given to PROVE to you you CAN’T keep it?
You keep scolding me telling me I am so wrong, but where has anything in my posts oppose that it is God within that empowers us? Do you think, maybe, that if we repent of our sins we reject Christ? How could that be!! Evidently I don't understand what your scolding and putting my thoughts of the Lord down is based on, except you object to my thinking the Lord gives us law to be used in many ways as opposed to your statement there is only one way. Or is that not what you are saying? Scripture tells of many ways we are to use law, it is not my idea at all, it is the Lord's.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,177
3,700
113
Eternal life is eternal. John said I know I have it.

Its sad all those who want to teach conditional life. By refusing to remove self from the equation.
Those who preach this will never admit that their own salvation is not eternal. Usually preachers who preach this are trying to “motivate“ their congregation to do works and serve around the church.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
You keep scolding me telling me I am so wrong, but where has anything in my posts oppose that it is God within that empowers us? Do you think, maybe, that if we repent of our sins we reject Christ? How could that be!! Evidently I don't understand what your scolding and putting my thoughts of the Lord down is based on, except you object to my thinking the Lord gives us law to be used in many ways as opposed to your statement there is only one way. Or is that not what you are saying? Scripture tells of many ways we are to use law, it is not my idea at all, it is the Lord's.
You kee ignoring the purpose of the law

And your telling people things about the law which is not true

I am just exposing that fact. If you call it being scolded. Its not me scolding you it is the word.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
Those who preach this will never admit that their own salvation is not eternal. Usually preachers who preach this are trying to “motivate“ their congregation to do works and serve around the church.
You are in opposition to what the church taught for 300 years, the years they listened to the apostles. They thought that giving their life to Christ was something they lived, not only ideas they had in their minds. They thought that if they believed Christ that would mean they believed what Christ said about how they lived, if you would have told them that was only trying to create their own salvation, not living for Christ, they would have looked at you as being against Christ. The idea that you must not reflect Christ in your life, to let Christ shine in your life was completely foreign to them, and I think it is foreign to the Lord, also.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,177
3,700
113
You are in opposition to what the church taught for 300 years, the years they listened to the apostles. They thought that giving their life to Christ was something they lived, not only ideas they had in their minds. They thought that if they believed Christ that would mean they believed what Christ said about how they lived, if you would have told them that was only trying to create their own salvation, not living for Christ, they would have looked at you as being against Christ. The idea that you must not reflect Christ in your life, to let Christ shine in your life was completely foreign to them, and I think it is foreign to the Lord, also.
Absolutely should be our outlook.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
You kee ignoring the purpose of the law

And your telling people things about the law which is not true

I am just exposing that fact. If you call it being scolded. Its not me scolding you it is the word.
And you keep ignoring the multiple purposes of the law, so let's let each interpret scripture in how each is given insight. It is impossible for me to not go by scripture, and it is impossible for you to see anything but this one verse. We each cannot do what it is impossible to do.
 

Katia

Active member
Aug 29, 2021
493
218
43
PDX
There are three legs upon which OSAS stands or falls. Do these verses mean what they supposedly mean, or have they been misunderstood and misapplied? When we examine them next to other scriptures that clearly contradict them will they hold up? Let's see.

First, 1 John 2:19—"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us."

The OSAS interpretation of this verse says that those who "went out" were never in Christ to begin with; they were never saved. However, I suggest there's another meaning that conforms very well with other scriptures. This view says that those who "went out" were indeed saved and in Christ at one point, but were simply not as committed as the others. It's in this sense that they were not "of us." These are those spoken of in the parable of the sower (Matthew 13:5-6): "Other seeds fell on rocky ground, where they did not have much soil, and immediately they sprang up, since they had no depth of soil, but when the sun rose they were scorched. And since they had no root, they withered away." It sprang up, it had life to start with; but it "withered away."

Jesus' explanation of this passage is found in Matthew 13:20-21—"As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy, yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away."

Second is 1 John 3:6—"No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him."

This seems pretty cut and dried: if someone turns away back into sin they never knew Him. But we have to understand this in light of other scriptures that contradict it. Those who "never knew Him," never had a proper understanding of Him. This corresponds to the first group in the parable of the sower: "When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart." The seed was "sown in his heart," but was snatched away because of this person's lack of understanding.

Third is John 10:28—"I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand." I agree with this verse: no one can indeed snatch them out of His hand. However, the person himself can walk away. For this reason I prefer the phrase "forfeit salvation" to "lose salvation."

Now let's look at some scriptures that plainly talk about walking away and falling away. I'm not going to use Hebrews because Hebrews is fiercely objected to by those who advocate OSAS, even though is has many relevant warnings about falling away. But Hebrews isn't necessary—there are plenty of others.

2 Peter 2:20-21"For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them."

This passage clearly illustrates a person who was once in Christ but who turned their back on Him. This shows a conscious action on the part of the one turning back. These verses correspond with Luke 9:26: "Jesus said to him, 'No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God.' "

Matthew 24:10"And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another."

1 Timothy 4:1"Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons."

Matthew 24:13"But the one who endures to the end will be saved."

Why say that those who endure to the end will be saved? If one cannot forfeit their salvation, why didn't He say "But all who have prayed the sinners prayer will be saved?"

Luke 9:26"Jesus said to him, 'No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God.' "

Already mentioned, Luke 9:26 is a clear warning from the Lord about falling away.
The idea "once saved, always saved" is nauseatingly repulsive to me. I've seen too much. For those who find that acceptable, I wish you well.
 

Icedaisey

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
1,398
475
83
We know. We have seen it here for years.

We are talking about the law and it usefulness in a persons life

Please try to stick to the topic.

You are misrepresenting people who are trying to discuss things with you. Because you do not like what they say.

If your do nt like what they say, the least you can do is prove you understand what they are saying
I understand perfectly. That's why you're desperately trying to convince the Christians in this thread to ignore the truth about your tactics by implying those who expose you can't comprehend the topic.
 

Icedaisey

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
1,398
475
83
The idea "once saved, always saved" is nauseatingly repulsive to me. I've seen too much. For those who find that acceptable, I wish you well.
No you don't.

Enemies of Christ are nauseatingly repulsive. But only while they still have time before they meet their judgement.


Eternal security in Christ is nauseatingly repulsive to you.
Good to know.


Hebrews 7:25 Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

Ephesians 4:30 Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.


Source: Eternal Security
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
And you keep ignoring the multiple purposes of the law, so let's let each interpret scripture in how each is given insight. It is impossible for me to not go by scripture, and it is impossible for you to see anything but this one verse. We each cannot do what it is impossible to do.
THERE IS ONE PURPOSE OF THE LAW.

TO EXPOSE SIN, TO EXPOSE OUR PLIGHT AGAINST GOD, AND TO LEAD US TO CHRIST. As the SCHOOLMASTER

You know what. Go ahead with your self righteousness. Go ahead thinking you are doing what God wants you to do. But Know that myself and others will expose your flawed view if you try to tell others.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I understand perfectly. That's why you're desperately trying to convince the Christians in this thread to ignore the truth about your tactics by implying those who expose you can't comprehend the topic.
Nope. Your the one doing that my friend.

I am just exposing the false precept that the law is the means to sanctification of the believer.

It was not given for that purpose