Why did the Most High God create sin?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Edify

Well-known member
Jan 27, 2021
1,569
661
113
English Standard Version
I form light and create darkness; I make well-being and create calamity; I am the LORD, who does all these things.

Berean Study Bible
I form the light and create the darkness; I bring prosperity and create calamity. I, the LORD, do all these things.

New King James Version
I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the LORD, do all these things.

New American Standard Bible
The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating disaster; I am the LORD who does all these things.

The KJV strikes again.:(
 
Aug 20, 2021
1,863
310
83
English Standard Version
I form light and create darkness; I make well-being and create calamity; I am the LORD, who does all these things.

Berean Study Bible
I form the light and create the darkness; I bring prosperity and create calamity. I, the LORD, do all these things.

New King James Version
I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the LORD, do all these things.

New American Standard Bible
The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating disaster; I am the LORD who does all these things.

The KJV politically correct strikes again.:(
Gen 6:5
And GOD saw that the wickedness calamity CH7451 of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil calamity H7451 continually.,,,sound better? :)
 

Edify

Well-known member
Jan 27, 2021
1,569
661
113
Gen 6:5
And GOD saw that the wickedness calamity CH7451 of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil calamity H7451 continually.,,,sound better? :)
No.
You need to understand that Hebrew & greek words change meaning according to the words used around them. This is the context.
 
Aug 20, 2021
1,863
310
83
No.
You need to understand that Hebrew & greek words change meaning according to the words used around them. This is the context.
well duh!:rolleyes: and we all need 2 know that...How much do u know about Hebrew?...I think u just don't like god being a bad guy...but u don't want 2 question him...Here's another 4 u.{God has made Even the wicked. For the day of judgement}
 
S

SophieT

Guest
There was no attack on this thread or anyone. Simply put, I deemed most of the responses as superficial. Perhaps you don't know the definition of this word.

Superficial - Existing on the surface of something or to believe is true until proper examination.

My attempt was, to get others to think more deeply upon the subject. The fact that you took it personally, is interesting in itself. Perhaps when you mature, you will learn the art of conversation. Meaningful conversation is the exchange of ideas - not a childish tantrum, when one disagrees with your view.
and the best way to go about that, is to say this?

Wow, you are one mean and viscous person are you not? You should get on your knees and ask forgiveness after an attack like that. However, I doubt that the fear of the Lord is before your eyes.
thanks for sharing
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,221
1,584
113
68
Brighton, MI
that's a whole other thread

feel free to create it...'God's Permissive Will'

guaranteed you will have an audience
  • Examples of God's perfect will and His permissive will
A. Differences about family makeup​
1. God's perfect will is monogamy.3​
Gen 2:24 . . . a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh​
2. God's permissive will is polygamy.4​
Deut 21:15a If a man has two wives....​
B. Differences about family breakup.5​
1. God's perfect will is marriage.6​
Gen 2:24 . . . a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.​
Matt 19:6b Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate.​
2. God's permissive will is divorce.7​
Deut 24:1 If a man marries a woman who becomes displeasing to him... he writes her a certificate of divorce, gives it to her and sends her from his house....​
Matt 19:8 Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning.​
https://paulwmanuel.blogspot.com/2013/02/gods-permissive-will.html

https://www.opc.org/qa.html?question_id=601
 
S

SophieT

Guest
  • Examples of God's perfect will and His permissive will
A. Differences about family makeup​
1. God's perfect will is monogamy.3​

Gen 2:24 . . . a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh​

2. God's permissive will is polygamy.4​

Deut 21:15a If a man has two wives....​

B. Differences about family breakup.5​
1. God's perfect will is marriage.6​

Gen 2:24 . . . a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.​

Matt 19:6b Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate.​

2. God's permissive will is divorce.7​

Deut 24:1 If a man marries a woman who becomes displeasing to him... he writes her a certificate of divorce, gives it to her and sends her from his house....​

Matt 19:8 Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning.​

https://paulwmanuel.blogspot.com/2013/02/gods-permissive-will.html

https://www.opc.org/qa.html?question_id=601

like I said

another thread

nice copy/paste though
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,954
113
The KJV offers an interesting idea regarding the "creation" of evil. Not my words . . . but straight from the KJV.

Isaiah 45:7 KJV - "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things].

Don't stone me. I'm only the messenger!!! :D
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,112
4,374
113
The KJV offers an interesting idea regarding the "creation" of evil. Not my words . . . but straight from the KJV.

Isaiah 45:7 KJV - "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things].

Don't stone me. I'm only the messenger!!! :D
that is not saying God made sin, that word evil is a description of things God made that carry out judgment that man sees as evil or terrifying
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
God didn't create sin, MAN did.
Amen. God is the Creator of the Cure; the gracious gift of His Blood. People need to get it through their heads that the root of sin is rebellion against God and His ways. The idea of God rebelling against Himself is a moot concept.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
5,075
1,279
113
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.


Tree of the knowledge of good and CALAMITY lol
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
5,075
1,279
113
Judges 9:23 Then God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech:


1 Samuel 16:14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.


1 Samuel 16:15 And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee.

1 Samuel 16:16 Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well.


1 Samuel 16:23 And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.


1 Samuel 18:10 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied in the midst of the house: and David played with his hand, as at other times: and there was a javelin in Saul's hand.


1 Samuel 19:9 And the evil spirit from the LORD was upon Saul, as he sat in his house with his javelin in his hand: and David played with his hand.


2 Samuel 12:11 Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbour, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun.



2 Samuel 17:14 And Absalom and all the men of Israel said, The counsel of Hushai the Archite is better than the counsel of Ahithophel. For the LORD had appointed to defeat the good counsel of Ahithophel, to the intent that the LORD might bring evil upon Absalom.



2 Samuel 24:15 So the LORD sent a pestilence upon Israel from the morning even to the time appointed: and there died of the people from Dan even to Beersheba seventy thousand men.
2 Samuel 24:16 And when the angel stretched out his hand upon Jerusalem to destroy it, the LORD repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed the people, It is enough: stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD was by the threshingplace of Araunah the Jebusite.

1 Kings 9:9 And they shall answer, Because they forsook the LORD their God, who brought forth their fathers out of the land of Egypt, and have taken hold upon other gods, and have worshipped them, and served them: therefore hath the LORD brought upon them all this evil.


1 Kings 22:23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.


2 Kings 21:12 Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Behold, I am bringing such evil upon Jerusalem and Judah, that whosoever heareth of it, both his ears shall tingle.



2 Kings 22:16 Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, and upon the inhabitants thereof, even all the words of the book which the king of Judah hath read:


2 Chronicles 7:22 And it shall be answered, Because they forsook the LORD God of their fathers, which brought them forth out of the land of Egypt, and laid hold on other gods, and worshipped them, and served them: therefore hath he brought all this evil upon them.


Nehemiah 13:18 Did not your fathers thus, and did not our God bring all this evil upon us, and upon this city? yet ye bring more wrath upon Israel by profaning the sabbath.


Jeremiah 11:17 For the LORD of hosts, that planted thee, hath pronounced evil against thee, for the evil of the house of Israel and of the house of Judah, which they have done against themselves to provoke me to anger in offering incense unto Baal.


Jeremiah 19:3 And say, Hear ye the word of the LORD, O kings of Judah, and inhabitants of Jerusalem; Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, the which whosoever heareth, his ears shall tingle.


Jeremiah 19:15 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will bring upon this city and upon all her towns all the evil that I have pronounced against it, because they have hardened their necks, that they might not hear my words.

Jeremiah 21:10 For I have set my face against this city for evil, and not for good, saith the LORD: it shall be given into the hand of the king of Babylon, and he shall burn it with fire.


Jeremiah 23:12 Wherefore their way shall be unto them as slippery ways in the darkness: they shall be driven on, and fall therein: for I will bring evil upon them, even the year of their visitation, saith the LORD.


Jeremiah 25:29 For, lo, I begin to bring evil on the city which is called by my name, and should ye be utterly unpunished? Ye shall not be unpunished: for I will call for a sword upon all the inhabitants of the earth, saith the LORD of hosts.


Jeremiah 26:13 Therefore now amend your ways and your doings, and obey the voice of the LORD your God; and the LORD will repent him of the evil that he hath pronounced against you.


Jeremiah 26:19 Did Hezekiah king of Judah and all Judah put him at all to death? did he not fear the LORD, and besought the LORD, and the LORD repented him of the evil which he had pronounced against them? Thus might we procure great evil against our souls.


Jeremiah 32:42 For thus saith the LORD; Like as I have brought all this great evil upon this people, so will I bring upon them all the good that I have promised them.


Jeremiah 35:17 Therefore thus saith the LORD God of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will bring upon Judah and upon all the inhabitants of Jerusalem all the evil that I have pronounced against them: because I have spoken unto them, but they have not heard; and I have called unto them, but they have not answered.



Jeremiah 39:16 Go and speak to Ebedmelech the Ethiopian, saying, Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will bring my words upon this city for evil, and not for good ; and they shall be accomplished in that day before thee.


Jeremiah 40:2 And the captain of the guard took Jeremiah, and said unto him, The LORD thy God hath pronounced this evil upon this place.


Jeremiah 44:2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Ye have seen all the evil that I have brought upon Jerusalem, and upon all the cities of Judah; and, behold, this day they are a desolation, and no man dwelleth therein,


Jeremiah 44:11 Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will set my face against you for evil, and to cut off all Judah.


Jeremiah 44:23 Because ye have burned incense, and because ye have sinned against the LORD, and have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, nor walked in his law, nor in his statutes, nor in his testimonies; therefore this evil is happened unto you, as at this day.


Jeremiah 45:5 And seekest thou great things for thyself? seek them not: for, behold, I will bring evil upon all flesh, saith the LORD: but thy life will I give unto thee for a prey in all places whither thou goest.


Jeremiah 49:37 For I will cause Elam to be dismayed before their enemies, and before them that seek their life: and I will bring evil upon them, even my fierce anger, saith the LORD; and I will send the sword after them, till I have consumed them:


Jonah 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.


Ezekiel 6:10 And they shall know that I am the LORD, and that I have not said in vain that I would do this evil unto them.


Micah 1:12 For the inhabitant of Maroth waited carefully for good: but evil came down from the LORD unto the gate of Jerusalem.


Micah 2:3 Therefore thus saith the LORD; Behold, against this family do I devise an evil, from which ye shall not remove your necks; neither shall ye go haughtily: for this time is evil.
 
Oct 9, 2021
881
291
63
God did not create sin directly but sin happened as a result of Him creating angels and people.

The Bible says that Lucifer was created perfect in his ways until iniquity was found in him and then his name became Satan to identify his new nature of rebellion and sin.

The Bible says God created people upright but they sought out many inventions and Adam and Eve were created innocent until they sinned.

God created angels and people to do good but He gave them a choice and that is how sinned happened as some angels made the choice to sin and people made the choice to sin.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,954
113
God did not create sin directly but sin happened as a result of Him creating angels and people.

The Bible says that Lucifer was created perfect in his ways until iniquity was found in him and then his name became Satan to identify his new nature of rebellion and sin.

The Bible says God created people upright but they sought out many inventions and Adam and Eve were created innocent until they sinned.

God created angels and people to do good but He gave them a choice and that is how sinned happened as some angels made the choice to sin and people made the choice to sin.
Do you think the KJV should be corrected?

I looked up Evil in the Blue Letter Bible dictionary and amongst its teachings, it says to "See Sin." Even the NKJV doesn't say "evil" or "sin" but chooses the word "calamity." It does seem pretty wild for the Lord to say that He creates sin, or evil.

I'm just looking forward to Heaven . . . where I won't have to ponder these things. :D
 
Oct 9, 2021
881
291
63
The opposite of God is Evil, thus when Satan gave into rebellion, he took heed to evil seduction.

NOTICE: The bible calls it the spirit of anti-christ which really means ant-God because Jesus is God.

1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

The bible doesn't call it the Spirit of Satan, does it? It calls it the Spirit that is AGAINST God or anti-God. Satan heeded the spirit of rebellion, the spirit of insubordination, the spirit of evil in that it is against God. God is eternal, thus the opposite of God has to also be eternal, just a fact that anything that opposes God is EVIL. If you can't grasp that its on you, not me.
There is no opposite of God which before He created anything there was only Him so no rebellion and sin could happen and God does not sin anyway.

There is no evil entity before God created anything.

Evil only comes from the angels and people who did evil.

Evil is rebellion against God's ways which is good.

Before God created anything it was all good and it still is all good with God.

All things are created from physical matter besides God who is a Spirit.

If there were another eternal being would it be considered a God but God said there is only one God and that God is good.

God said is there a God beside me, yea, there is no God I know not any.

And there was no God formed before me and there will be no God formed after me.

There is no evil before God created anything.

Also God is an omnipresent Spirit which His Spirit never ends whichever direction it is so where is there room for a spiritual entity that is evil.

Which the Bible says there is but one God the Father who is in all, and through all, and above all.

Why doesn't God do away with the evil entity and that would be the end of it.

The angels were created with a choice and some rebelled and evil happened which no entity tempted Lucifer but he made the choice to rebel.

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

The devil is the father of lies for it stems from him and affected some of the angels and people.

The devil was not influenced by an evil entity but he made the choice to want to be great like God.

The spirit of antichrist means people that do not believe Jesus coming in flesh which that does not mean there is an evil entity that is not Satan causing it for it stems from Satan.

The Bible does not say people are tempted by an evil entity that does not have a beginning but they are tempted by the devil.
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
God didn't create sin, MAN did.
To be clear, sin isn't "created". It's committed. It's an action that is against God and His plan. And the first sinner wasn't man, but Satan. He rebelled against God in Isa 14.
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
The KJV offers an interesting idea regarding the "creation" of evil. Not my words . . . but straight from the KJV.

Isaiah 45:7 KJV - "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things].

Don't stone me. I'm only the messenger!!! :D
The Hebrew word here means "adversity". And yes, God does create adversity.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.


Tree of the knowledge of good and CALAMITY lol
God did not commit an evil act when He gave men a choice of whether to follow His ways or reject them. I think you know this.

In a few words, I would like you to summarize what your agenda is here at CC. So many come here seeking to learn truth. Yet there are those few who get their kicks by sowing seeds of confusion. I shall not attempt to separate the wheat from the tares, but I shall warn all that the day of reaping and judgement is nigh.