They're not for you

[JTB]

Man, I get it. The liberals, with their abdication of personal responsibility, their policies of enablement, their promotion of abortion, their poly/a-theism free for all, their embrace of immorality - These are not values Christians should be promoting.

But the conservative embrace of self idolatry, the abandonment of the poor and sick, the mammon worship, the lies and deceit - those are not values Christians should be supporting either. Yet so many do. And vehemently.


The trouble is, only one of these philosophies claims it is from God. And that is what makes it more dangerous.

 

[mindfulzen]

Man, I get it. The liberals, with their abdication of personal responsibility, their policies of enablement, their promotion of abortion, their poly/a-theism free for all, their embrace of immorality - These are not values Christians should be promoting.

But the conservative embrace of self idolatry, the abandonment of the poor and sick, the mammon worship, the lies and deceit - those are not values Christians should be supporting either. Yet so many do. And vehemently.


The trouble is, only one of these philosophies claims it is from God. And that is what makes it more dangerous.

They are not philosophis. One is a hijacked word, used by evil ideologues, who use everything. The other is a traditional valuesystem based on a religion. The problem is that words do not mean the same, and you talk past eachother. The familyvalues of conservatives comes from God.

 

[JTB]

They are not philosophis. One is a hijacked word, used by evil ideologues, who use everything. The other is a traditional valuesystem based on a religion. The problem is that words do not mean the same, and you talk past eachother. The familyvalues of conservatives comes from God.

Self idolatry, abandonment of the sick and poor, mammon worship, lies and deceit - these are NOT Christian family values.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Man, I get it. The liberals, with their abdication of personal responsibility, their policies of enablement, their promotion of abortion, their poly/a-theism free for all, their embrace of immorality - These are not values Christians should be promoting.

But the conservative embrace of self idolatry, the abandonment of the poor and sick, the mammon worship, the lies and deceit - those are not values Christians should be supporting either. Yet so many do. And vehemently.


The trouble is, only one of these philosophies claims it is from God. And that is what makes it more dangerous.

 

[mindfulzen]

Self idolatry, abandonment of the sick and poor, mammon worship, lies and deceit - these are NOT Christian family values.

Selfidolitary is not checked here, good luck trying to reason out that one. Where is the abandonment of the sick and poor? None give more money and time to charity than christians. conservative christians. You have christians institutions helping people. Who are the sick and the poor? How can they be helped isolated? What should conservatives support that they reject to help only the sick and the poor?

Where is the mammon worship? Opposing unfair taxation and wasteful spending? What lies and deceit? Be specific. And point stands, theese are not philosophies, only politics. You have to lay out what they reject, and why. What does this have to do with familyvalues? Familyvalues has to do with the family, you mix in society for some reason. You understood that my point was about tradfamily, raising kids right, And individualism and personal strength, living by conviction and truth.

I suggest you stop using the word vehemently, it is a very dumb word used by people without an individual voice most often.

 

[Runningman]

Imho, traditional conservativism isn't really a mainstream thing anymore. It's a differeny version of conservatism often referred to as neo-conservatism. In other words, the conservatives of today aren't the conservatives of 50 years ago. NeoCons have, in fact, been influenced greatly by progressives and liberal democrats.

From what I can see, Christians who chose a political side do tend to lean more toward the conservative side and sympathize with the majority, if not all, of modern American conservative values.

I think the deception is that presenting two mainstream political options for the general public creates the illusion that one is correct and the other is wrong. Imho, both parties are severely and heinously flawed. Both parties act like honeypots that will eventually coalesce into one party by incrementally luring voters into common ground.

 

[mindfulzen]

Imho, traditional conservativism isn't really a mainstream thing anymore. It's a differeny version of conservatism often referred to as neo-conservatism. In other words, the conservatives of today aren't the conservatives of 50 years ago. NeoCons have, in fact, been influenced greatly by progressives and liberal democrats.

From what I can see, Christians who chose a political side do tend to lean more toward the conservative side and sympathize with the majority, if not all, of modern American conservative values.

I think the deception is that presenting two mainstream political options for the general public creates the illusion that one is correct and the other is wrong. Imho, both parties are severely and heinously flawed. Both parties act like honeypots that will eventually coalesce into one party by incrementally luring voters into common ground.

Some right, some wrong. neoconservative means conservative domestic, while going kind of imperialistic abroad, foisting US influence on other nations open or covertly, in US interest, which is wrong. Bill Crystal school of GOP, and he is out now. So no concern for now. He sold principles for power, sold out domestic issues for foreign wrongs for US benefit, attacking christians domestic, and poor people abroad being used. Sick mentality. This is a fake christian who can accept a bit of abortion being legal, and give some more, as long as the US can mess up other countries. This is not christian values. Christians would never sell out domestic values and laws, to wage war covertly in other nations. The warmongers are warned against in the bible, and by Jesus, do not get fooled.

 

[PennEd]

But the conservative embrace of self idolatry, the abandonment of the poor and sick, the mammon worship, the lies and deceit - those are not values Christians should be supporting either. Yet so many do. And vehemently.

Everything you just wrote here is an out and out lie.

As simple as that.

 

[JTB]

Everything you just wrote here is an out and out lie.

As simple as that.

So self idolatry, abandonment of the poor and sick, mammon worship, lies and deceit, these ARE Christian values?

Because that is what the republican power structure is all about. And if you can't see that, you're one of the Matthew 24 deceived.

 

[PennEd]

Because that is what the republican power structure is all about. And if you can't see that, you're one of the Matthew 24 deceived.

Libelous lies.

And you said “conservative” in your first post.

 

[Desdichado]

Okay, let's go one by one here.

But the conservative embrace of self idolatry

,

the mammon worship

This does stand up to scrutiny, but I would say this is true of our entire culture. Rather like saying a part of the sky is blue.

Some conservatives would agree with you on this point.

the abandonment of the poor and sick

To the contrary, most conservatives believe charity is a function of the Church and private institutions and that these institutions are better at providing for the poor and the sick.

the lies and deceit

That's a rather thorny issue. I think when we are referencing political elites, they deliberately lie to get what they want or evade responsibility.

But the rank and file of both parties are pretty honest about what they want. If they are lying, their lies are sincerely believed, not active deception. This is especially the case with conservatives. I would go so far as to say they are among the most honest people in politics.

And that is what makes it more dangerous.

Conservatives are manifestly not more dangerous. They won't tell Christians to bake the cake, revoke their tax-exempt status, or force men into womens' bathrooms. At the very least, non-Christian conservatives leave Christians alone.



A definitional note: by "conservative" I am using the conservative movement as a benchmark- Ben Shapiro, ACU, National Review, and so forth, not elements of the dissident Right.

 

[JTB]

Ever since King Reagan (oooh that oughta raise some hairs!) executive compensation has skyrocketed while worker pay has been stagnant. Workers also used to get benefits like health care and retirement, but not any more. The rich get richer by coveting the accumulation of wealth and standing on the necks of the poor... a conservative/republican banner!

The fact that healthcare in the USA is a FOR PROFIT INDUSTRY pretty much guarantees that is is FOR THOSE WHO CAN AFFORD IT. Even with Obummercare it's out of reach for far too many. Again, a conservative/republican banner!

Self idolatry? Do you not hear how Trump speaks? Early on the white house policy makers learned to include his name repeatedly in their reports, as he would not read them unless his name was prominently present. Too, accumulating wealth and resources a the expense of the working poor is itself a form of self idolatry. More conservative/republican banners!

Lies and deceit? Add hypocrisy too. McConnel standing in the way of Obama's SCOTUS pick, saying let the voters decide, then turning cheek and pushing thru Trump's pick no. 3 under the exact same conditions? Judges and sycophants appointed by Trump ALL telling him he has no case vis-a-vis a stolen election and yet he still clings to that lie, along with most of his followers? Trump telling his supporters that the vaccine is safe and to take it and his supporters still clinging to unqualified pundits saying it's not? Truth and honesty have no place in the right! These people are only looking to confirm what they already believe - even if what they already believe is a proven lie!

The liberal/democrats - they are obviously anti God. They don't try to hide it, they don't deny it, it's right out there in the open to be clearly seen.

The conservatives/republicans on the other hand, having abandoned God's ways, still couch their actions in God's Name.

And THAT is what God warned us against, being deceived by those who come in His Name but draw believers away from God's truths.

 

[JTB]

 

[mindfulzen]

Ever since King Reagan (oooh that oughta raise some hairs!) executive compensation has skyrocketed while worker pay has been stagnant. Workers also used to get benefits like health care and retirement, but not any more. The rich get richer by coveting the accumulation of wealth and standing on the necks of the poor... a conservative/republican banner!

The fact that healthcare in the USA is a FOR PROFIT INDUSTRY pretty much guarantees that is is FOR THOSE WHO CAN AFFORD IT. Even with Obummercare it's out of reach for far too many. Again, a conservative/republican banner!

Self idolatry? Do you not hear how Trump speaks? Early on the white house policy makers learned to include his name repeatedly in their reports, as he would not read them unless his name was prominently present. Too, accumulating wealth and resources a the expense of the working poor is itself a form of self idolatry. More conservative/republican banners!

Lies and deceit? Add hypocrisy too. McConnel standing in the way of Obama's SCOTUS pick, saying let the voters decide, then turning cheek and pushing thru Trump's pick no. 3 under the exact same conditions? Judges and sycophants appointed by Trump ALL telling him he has no case vis-a-vis a stolen election and yet he still clings to that lie, along with most of his followers? Trump telling his supporters that the vaccine is safe and to take it and his supporters still clinging to unqualified pundits saying it's not? Truth and honesty have no place in the right! These people are only looking to confirm what they already believe - even if what they already believe is a proven lie!

The liberal/democrats - they are obviously anti God. They don't try to hide it, they don't deny it, it's right out there in the open to be clearly seen.

The conservatives/republicans on the other hand, having abandoned God's ways, still couch their actions in God's Name.

And THAT is what God warned us against, being deceived by those who come in His Name but draw believers away from God's truths.

View attachment 230956

It is not king Reagan, it is st Reagan, and he was wrong about mental healthcare. Trump speaks of us, not sellfidolotary, and cut him some slack. Many think he is the second coming. Just 16 years too late, because he was tested with luxury and all his wants covered. Tolerate conservative christians who see him as more than their prez. Made a big change, moved the embassy to Jerusalem, that was big,. Promised for 50 years, none did it, it could not be done it was said. He did it. Recognizing the true capital of Israel matters. If a tool of God, or more, he did that, it matters to christians. Challenging abortion was also big. He might not be a classic christian, but fought for those values, when none others did.

 

[JTB]

It is not king Reagan, it is st Reagan, and he was wrong about mental healthcare. Trump speaks of us, not sellfidolotary, and cut him some slack. Many think he is the second coming. Just 16 years too late, because he was tested with luxury and all his wants covered. Tolerate conservative christians who see him as more than their prez. Made a big change, moved the embassy to Jerusalem, that was big,. Promised for 50 years, none did it, it could not be done it was said. He did it. Recognizing the true capital of Israel matters. If a tool of God, or more, he did that, it matters to christians. Challenging abortion was also big. He might not be a classic christian, but fought for those values, when none others did.

Even the ungodly do things God says to do. Plenty of unsaved people feed the poor for example. Does that mean we should rally behind these unsaved people? That we should call them 'of God'?

You touch on something else there that has me pondering...

I see a lot of Christians praising Trump for his treaties to bring peace between Israel and the Arabs

But what does the Bible say about the one who brings peace between Israel and the Arabs? Who is he identified as in Revelation?

GOD WARNS US WE WILL BE DECIEVED BY MANY WHO COME IN HIS NAME...

And only the republicans (not the dems for sure) claim His Name

 

[mindfulzen]

Even the ungodly do things God says to do. Plenty of unsaved people feed the poor for example. Does that mean we should rally behind these unsaved people? That we should call them 'of God'?

You touch on something else there that has me pondering...

I see a lot of Christians praising Trump for his treaties to bring peace between Israel and the Arabs

But what does the Bible say about the one who brings peace between Israel and the Arabs? Who is he identified as in Revelation?

GOD WARNS US WE WILL BE DECIEVED BY MANY WHO COME IN HIS NAME...

And only the republicans (not the dems for sure) claim His Name

 

[mindfulzen]

Even the ungodly do things God says to do. Plenty of unsaved people feed the poor for example. Does that mean we should rally behind these unsaved people? That we should call them 'of God'?

You touch on something else there that has me pondering...

I see a lot of Christians praising Trump for his treaties to bring peace between Israel and the Arabs

But what does the Bible say about the one who brings peace between Israel and the Arabs? Who is he identified as in Revelation?

GOD WARNS US WE WILL BE DECIEVED BY MANY WHO COME IN HIS NAME...

And only the republicans (not the dems for sure) claim His Name

Disregard my past post, for some reason it got posted.
Here is mine

Yes, I think we should rally behind the unfaithful doing good work in the spirit of the lord. If unchristian people feed the poor, we should support it, as you do in fundraisers, a nice thing to do.

I do not think that the bible said anything about peace between arabs and Isreal, but do not know. Theese days arabs is synonymous with muslim, and that is a religion that came 600 years later, so nothing in scripture on that. And it was not about peace, now was it? It was a simple statement of strength, Israels embassy is at Jerusalem now, done deal. What is this about reveleation? We are supposed to get a new messiah theese days. We can cherryick and be pedantic, and make it about the year 2000, or people can speculate, you do you.

Yes, many deceivers, just ignore them, problem solved, good luck in life. You know who they are when encountering, you always knew I suspect, you just kept them out of weakness, bad choice. Now you know better, and be lighthearted, are you right? Why worry? Stand strong, it will work out. Trust God. Do right. He will never steer you wrong if you have faith.

 

[p_rehbein]

Man, I get it. The liberals, with their abdication of personal responsibility, their policies of enablement, their promotion of abortion, their poly/a-theism free for all, their embrace of immorality - These are not values Christians should be promoting.

But the conservative embrace of self idolatry, the abandonment of the poor and sick, the mammon worship, the lies and deceit - those are not values Christians should be supporting either. Yet so many do. And vehemently.


The trouble is, only one of these philosophies claims it is from God. And that is what makes it more dangerous.

Don't know why you got the "x"es..........???

Anyone that believes those in Washington actually care about what's best for the "people" are fooling themselves IMO. Once these guys get in Office, there's not a dimes worth of difference between them. They are ONLY concerned with "self-enrichment' and being reelected.

There are a precious few that MIGHT actually "care" about the people, but I can not presently name more than 1. That being Duncan Hunter of California. Maybe someone could provide names of those they believe are worthy of calling "good and decent Representatives of the people."

 

[p_rehbein]

Everything you just wrote here is an out and out lie.

As simple as that.

The mistake, IMO, was using the word "conservative" instead of identifying the Republicans in Washington. As I read the OP, I read it as the Author was speaking of the Politicians in Office.

There is a whole lot of blame that falls on BOTH Parties in Washington for the state our Nation is in. And, surely you agree that the Republicans have their plethora of "lies" as do the Democrats.

Anyway............IF someone believes the Government really cares about them, ask the Native Americans how that ends up........

 

[Desdichado]

You don't understand what modern conservatism is. I say this as a non-conservative.

Pick up The Conservative Sensibility by George Will. Read it. Have your disagreements with it, but stop posting this under-informed nonsense.

Ever since King Reagan (oooh that oughta raise some hairs!) executive compensation has skyrocketed while worker pay has been stagnant. Workers also used to get benefits like health care and retirement, but not any more. The rich get richer by coveting the accumulation of wealth and standing on the necks of the poor... a conservative/republican banner!

The fact that healthcare in the USA is a FOR PROFIT INDUSTRY pretty much guarantees that is is FOR THOSE WHO CAN AFFORD IT. Even with Obummercare it's out of reach for far too many. Again, a conservative/republican banner!

Self idolatry? Do you not hear how Trump speaks? Early on the white house policy makers learned to include his name repeatedly in their reports, as he would not read them unless his name was prominently present. Too, accumulating wealth and resources a the expense of the working poor is itself a form of self idolatry. More conservative/republican banners!

Lies and deceit? Add hypocrisy too. McConnel standing in the way of Obama's SCOTUS pick, saying let the voters decide, then turning cheek and pushing thru Trump's pick no. 3 under the exact same conditions? Judges and sycophants appointed by Trump ALL telling him he has no case vis-a-vis a stolen election and yet he still clings to that lie, along with most of his followers? Trump telling his supporters that the vaccine is safe and to take it and his supporters still clinging to unqualified pundits saying it's not? Truth and honesty have no place in the right! These people are only looking to confirm what they already believe - even if what they already believe is a proven lie!

The liberal/democrats - they are obviously anti God. They don't try to hide it, they don't deny it, it's right out there in the open to be clearly seen.

The conservatives/republicans on the other hand, having abandoned God's ways, still couch their actions in God's Name.

And THAT is what God warned us against, being deceived by those who come in His Name but draw believers away from God's truths.