What Makes a Woman "A Lady"?

[seoulsearch]

Hey Everyone,

With a few discussions going on in the forums about what makes a man a "gentleman", I thought it would only be fair to gather a few thoughts about what makes a woman "a lady."

I can't help but think of an old country song that proclaimed, "I'm a redneck woman; I ain't no high class broad." (Gretchen Wilson) She then goes on to sing about her talents for whiskey, leaving her Christmas lights up year-round, and standing on her front porch with a baby on her hip.

Now I am in no way criticizing anyone, man or woman, who lives this way. I happen to have an artificial palm tree swaggering with Christmas lights, and I happily turn it on any time I need a boost (never mind the multi-color glow that my neighbors probably all wonder about.)

But with the other discussions giving us some very clear opinions about what a gentleman is, I'd be very interested in hearing what people in this day and age would consider to be "a lady."

I was in a store the other day and heard a mother call out to her two young daughters, "All right, little ladies, it's time to go."

And it got me thinking:

* What lessons, events, and expectations take an "ordinary girl" -- and turn her into a "lady"?

* What is the difference between a lady and any other kind of woman?

* What place do "ladies" have in our society? Is the term "lady" in itself an outdated concept?

I don't think there are necessarily any right or wrong answers to these questions. I'm just very interested in people's modern-day perception of this term.

"Ladies... and Gentlemen -- The Honor of Your Replies Have Now Been Formally Requested."

 

[MatthewWestfieldUK]

Lady is a woman who has class.
Class is knowing when to stop.
Imho

 

[Lanolin]

In great britain it means you are aristocracy and female (basically, upper class). Your landed estate has been in family for generations and you've never had to do a days work in you life because you dont ever have to earn any money. If you come upon hard times you can always sell some old family heirlooms nobody likes on antiques roadshow.

but I dont know how that works in the us of a. As they don't have titles or knighthoods or anything. They had this thing about 'old money' and 'new money' apparently. But people dont really care for that as long as you have money...you can be as vulgar as you like.

Have you ever seen My Fair Lady? You can fake it if you want to, just need the right clothes, the posh accent, and to be as thin as Audrey Hepburn.

 

[Lynx]

I dunno... you can be a redneck woman and still be a lady. I know a bunch of ladies who like to leave christmas lights up - some in the living room, one in her bedroom, some on the front porch - and a fair number of them have had kids. (I ain't touching that line about whiskey though...)

To me a lady is defined more by what she doesn't do than what she does. When a woman feels inadequate the natural reflex is to find other women to tear down with gossip. (To be fair men have the same reflex.) A lady will find a way to not do it. And make no mistake, it takes effort to avoid doing this. Gossiping is a LOT easier than not gossiping.

A lady does not talk all the time to get attention. She only speaks when she has something to say. But those who know her learn to pay attention when she speaks, because it will be worth listening to.

A lady does not define her value by how much stuff she has, how much she makes or how much her husband makes. If one of them loses a job, she does not consider herself as being less because of it. She considers possessions as tools to use, not a measure of her worth. (In lower class families this often manifests in startling ways... a boy may have to learn to not get too attached to a particular pair of pants, because next week he might see another boy wearing them if his mom thinks they need them more.)

A lady is a lady, regardless of societal or economic status. There are ladies at every level of society. There are also women at every level who are not ladies. The easy way to tell the difference is to check how much a woman cares about what level she is at. The women who are not ladies usually care a lot more about it.

 

[Lanolin]

They call aristocracy 'to the manor born'

so it might be you need your own manor first.

This is a manor (house) not the same as having manners...!

You can ACT like a lady without actually being one. I am supposing, like the same as acting like a gentleman, even if you have aboslutely nothing to your name.

What they did in the old days was send young girls to what was called 'finishing school' which was meant to teach them how to be ladies. How to speak with a cut glass accent, how to manage a large household of servants, how to play piano and wear a corset...most of them were in Switzerland and you acquired a european langauge and how to snare a (well-to-do) husband. You would have your debut in court and a ball season and after that you got married and got down to business of producing heirs.

You wouldnt need to look after your own children though...you got nannies to do that for you, then sent them off to boarding school. Your chief role was to wear pretty gowns and show off your husband.

Nowadays the wealthy heiresses looking for something to do often find work in something like Vogue magazine. They wouldnt get paid very much but they would do it for the clothes.

 

[seoulsearch]

It's intriguing to me that we have had literally pages and pages of posts dedicated to the discussion, and sometimes argument, of what a gentleman is or is not, with every angle carefully dissected and debated.

Whenever a discussion comes up about one side of a gender-related issue, I'm always interested in what will be said about its opposite counterpart.

Why is there so much emphasis and concern about what a gentleman should be, how he should treat others, and how he should be treated, but little to no talk about what it means to be a lady?

I'm just wondering:

* Is "lady" or "ladylike" too old-fashioned of a term that it is no longer something women want to be, and something that men no longer have any interest in pursuing?

* Is our society too controlling of what we think a man should be (hence all the varying opinions about the definition of a gentleman)?

* Are we becoming too lenient with the definitions for women?

There I go again, pondering out loud.

 

[cinder]

It's intriguing to me that we have had literally pages and pages of posts dedicated to the discussion, and sometimes argument, of what a gentleman is or is not, with every angle carefully dissected and debated.

Whenever a discussion comes up about one side of a gender-related issue, I'm always interested in what will be said about its opposite counterpart.

Why is there so much emphasis and concern about what a gentleman should be, how he should treat others, and how he should be treated, but little to no talk about what it means to be a lady?

I'm just wondering:

* Is "lady" or "ladylike" too old-fashioned of a term that it is no longer something women want to be, and something that men no longer have any interest in pursuing?

* Is our society too controlling of what we think a man should be (hence all the varying opinions about the definition of a gentleman)?

* Are we becoming too lenient with the definitions for women?

There I go again, pondering out loud.

All of the above.
I think lady is a rather old fashioned term and one that tends to conjure up images of upper class snootiness and women who think too highly of themselves on one hand and the weak, incapable damsel in distress on the other. Neither of which are things women necessarily want or aspire to be.

Chesterton writing about feminists in the early part of the early part of the 20th century said something to the effect of " they say women are under great tyranny, but they want to destroy femininity while I want to destroy the tyranny" And I think that often even I am not sure what ladylikeness or femininity mean apart from either a sexual or submissive stance on them. So part of it may be that we've kind of destroyed femininity in our zeal for equality (and was that really a victory for womens rights if what we've acheived is the right for women to act like men) and another part may be that well the whole women's rights thing means that no one gets to tell a woman what she should be anymore. Any way you want to be a woman is acceptable, but there's a very limited scope of what you're allowed to be and be an acceptable man (and usually it's on the more sensitive feminine side of things).

 

[TheIndianGirl]

A lady has to "take care" of herself, meaning fixes her hair, takes care of her skin and nails, and wears nice/flattering (not necessarily showy or expensive) clothes with a feminine touch. That's the looks department.

She mustn't use course language, yell loudly, or seem too boisterous. She must be calm and collected, but knows how to retort in a polite way.

However, she mustn't be timid or overly shy. She should be intelligent and be able to handle a conversation containing substance (religion, world affairs, etc.).

 

[RodB651]

I'm not exactly sure how I would define "what is a lady"... But I do know that I'm very careful how I conduct myself around a woman I perceive to be a lady. It's almost intimidating (in a good way) to be around one.

 

[Lanolin]

A lady has to "take care" of herself, meaning fixes her hair, takes care of her skin and nails, and wears nice/flattering (not necessarily showy or expensive) clothes with a feminine touch. That's the looks department.

She mustn't use course language, yell loudly, or seem too boisterous. She must be calm and collected, but knows how to retort in a polite way.

However, she mustn't be timid or overly shy. She should be intelligent and be able to handle a conversation containing substance (religion, world affairs, etc.).

in the book Gone with the Wind (and movie) the old plantation life was portrayed as a society in which there were 'lords and ladies' or they aspired to be anyway

You might remember Scarletts sister saying 'You can always tell a lady by her hands' and lamenting her own, cos they were so ravaged by war they had to pick their own cotton!

The other thing was Scarlett would retort to Rhett, the rogue and scoundrel...You sir, are no gentleman!

He would shoot back 'And you, miss, are no lady!"

In the book and movie, it was Melanie and Scarletts mother who displayed all the attributes of a lady, and Ashley was meant to be the honorable gentleman who Scarlett was smitten by. Scarlett defied Southern convention by NOT acting like a lady.

Mammy would often reprimand her when she was being obnoxious, which was most of the time. lol

 

[Lanolin]

In real life, Vivien Leigh, the actress who played Scarlett, was a lady. She became one when her husband Laurence Olivier was knighted. He was Sir Laurence Olivier, and she was Lady Olivier.

Though also in real life, Vivien Leigh suffered manic depression (known as bipolar disorder) and often did things that were unladylike, like swear/cuss and commit adultery!

They had a manor of their own though called Notley Abbey. And they were sort of treated as acting royalty by the adoring public. It didnt last though...they divorced and she never really got over it.

 

[SomeDisciple]

When I think of Ladies and Gentlemen, I think of a set of manners that comes from a godly goodwill- even if they're only imitated by someone, they will at least come off as pleasant to be around. It's mostly just goodwill, or "common courtesy". Treating others as you'd like to be treated.

Is "lady" or "ladylike" too old-fashioned of a term that it is no longer something women want to be, and something that men no longer have any interest in pursuing?

I don't think it's that men wouldn't like a Lady; it's that they are cowardly and settle for nasty women because they are afraid of being lonely. The things some men tolerate are mind-blowing. But, the more they are willing to tolerate, the less motivation there is for women to act like a lady. Why bother acting like a lady to get what you want from your husband if cracking the whip works?

 

[ankagirl]

Hey Everyone,

With a few discussions going on in the forums about what makes a man a "gentleman", I thought it would only be fair to gather a few thoughts about what makes a woman "a lady."

I can't help but think of an old country song that proclaimed, "I'm a redneck woman; I ain't no high class broad." (Gretchen Wilson) She then goes on to sing about her talents for whiskey, leaving her Christmas lights up year-round, and standing on her front porch with a baby on her hip.

Now I am in no way criticizing anyone, man or woman, who lives this way. I happen to have an artificial palm tree swaggering with Christmas lights, and I happily turn it on any time I need a boost (never mind the multi-color glow that my neighbors probably all wonder about.)

But with the other discussions giving us some very clear opinions about what a gentleman is, I'd be very interested in hearing what people in this day and age would consider to be "a lady."

I was in a store the other day and heard a mother call out to her two young daughters, "All right, little ladies, it's time to go."

And it got me thinking:

* What lessons, events, and expectations take an "ordinary girl" -- and turn her into a "lady"?

* What is the difference between a lady and any other kind of woman?

* What place do "ladies" have in our society? Is the term "lady" in itself an outdated concept?

I don't think there are necessarily any right or wrong answers to these questions. I'm just very interested in people's modern-day perception of this term.

"Ladies... and Gentlemen -- The Honor of Your Replies Have Now Been Formally Requested."

We find a true lady in one very well-known chapter of the Bible -Proverbs 31.

A lady:
-is not boisterous
-does not seek inappropriate attention
-honours and respects authority
-treats others with kindness
-is a willing worker
-is not afraid of being judged/looked down at because she is different than other 'redneck' women.

These are a few things that I believe everyone should look for when they are looking for a real lady (especialy those of you gents who are out there lookin' for a good wife!).

 

[Icedaisey]

Lady is a woman who has class.
Class is knowing when to stop.
Imho

Stop. What?

 

[Lanolin]

I am thinking that a lady, irrespective of where she was born (low or high or in between) posseses something that cant really be taught and thats something I would call 'grace'.

 

[Desdichado]

A lady is a wise manager of her household. She is respectful of her husband and submissive to him in most cases. If he turns out to be a lout, she assumes preeminence in the household but remains submissive to a higher patriarch (often a dead one). This sort of submission is the feminine route to habituating virtue.

What in the case of singleness? Well, celibacy is unlawful for both men and women, so such people are disinherited according to household law and city law.


The mask falls. That is what the ancient Greeks and Romans would say, but it is fairly instructive.

 

[tourist]

We find a true lady in one very well-known chapter of the Bible -Proverbs 31.

A lady:
-is not boisterous
-does not seek inappropriate attention
-honours and respects authority
-treats others with kindness
-is a willing worker
-is not afraid of being judged/looked down at because she is different than other 'redneck' women.

These are a few things that I believe everyone should look for when they are looking for a real lady (especialy those of you gents who are out there lookin' for a good wife!).

Those are good character traits for sure for consideration for finding a good wife.

 

[Lanolin]

ladies actually do not need to be married or be wives.

If you want to ask what makes a good WIFE that is a totally different question. And wives do not necessarily need to be ladies.

 

[Desdichado]

Yes, but ladies are ideally wives just as gentlemen are ideally husbands.

Deviation from this standard is just another brand of soft-headed modernism. I say this as an unmarried man.

 

[sk8boredn]

I'm sure I don't qualify.