Saved by Water

[Wansvic]

...

Acts 2:38 is the primary verse.

the problem with this doctrine is they refuse to read verses 1-37 in the chapter which explains why Peter said verse 38. Starting at verse 14 the empowering of the Holy Spirit has just happened....

Actually the word states specifically that the Holy Spirit is received in Acts 2:4. Peter begins explaining what has occurred in verse 14. In verse 17, Peter states that what they are witnessing is what was prophesied by Joel. God has poured out his Spirit upon man. Peter states that all that shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. (verse 21) He continues by pointing out the specifics of Jesus' death, burial and resurrection. (Acts 2:22-36) Notice verse 33. Peter states again that Jesus has shed forth the Holy Spirit and that is what they have seen and heard. After being provided with, and believing Peter's message the group asked what is required of them personally. He tells the group to repent, and be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus, and they, too, can expect to receive the Holy Ghost.

Consider how Peter's comment in verse 21 parallels with his command that everyone be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus for the remission of sin. (verse 38)

 

[CS1]

Actually the word states specifically that the Holy Spirit is received in Acts 2:4. Peter begins explaining what has occurred in verse 14. In verse 17, Peter states that what they are witnessing is what was prophesied by Joel. God has poured out his Spirit upon man. Peter states that all that shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. (verse 21) He continues by pointing out the specifics of Jesus' death, burial and resurrection. (Acts 2:22-36) Notice verse 33. Peter states again that Jesus has shed forth the Holy Spirit and that is what they have seen and heard. After being provided with, and believing Peter's message the group asked what is required of them personally. He tells the group to repent, and be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus, and they, too, can expect to receive the Holy Ghost.

Consider how Peter's comment in verse 21 parallels with his command that everyone be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus for the remission of sin. (verse 38)

you are not seeing the Holy Spirit is to be in you and comes upon you the coming upon you is the empowering to do and help be an effective witness for Christ as Jesus said in John 14 - 15 chapters and Acts 1:8.

The Holy Spiirit comes in the Believer to baer witness they are Saved HIs Spirit bear witness with our sosirt

The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, ( Roman 8:16)

The Holy Spirit upon the believer or the called out one to do the work of the Lord as it has been in the Old Testament now for all as Jesus said in Acts 1:8 YOU shall receive Power after the Holy Spirit has come UPON you to be my witnesses.

The Apostles were saved when HE told them this. They had to have the Holy Spirit than to be saved already

 

[Wansvic]

...there are only really two at the most three versus those who hold to this understanding about Baptism in the name of Jesus only and speaking in tongues to be saved....

The bible indicates that truth is established by 2-3 witnesses. Peter first feed the truth of the need for everyone to be baptized in Jesus' name and to receive the Holy Ghost as he and others had on that very first day in Jerusalem. (Acts 2:38) Those who believed his message were baptized as recorded in Acts 2:41. After feeding this truth to the Jews (sheep) he was used by God to feed the Gentiles. (lambs) (Acts 10:44-48)

Peter also played a part in feeding the Samaritans (sheep) as seen in Acts 8:12-18. Ask yourself how Philip knew the group had not received the Holy Ghost. Verse 12 states they believed his message about Jesus and were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. What was missing? The answer can be easily understood when one realizes that speaking in tongues is the evidence that people have received the Holy Ghost.

In addition, consider that every actual water baptism detailed in scripture speaks to the truth that all were done in the name of the Lord Jesus. (Acts 8:12, 16; Acts 10:48, Acts 19:5) Not one time do we see anyone being baptized using the phrase in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

Consider that God's truths are "hidden" in plain sight:

"It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." Prov 25:2

 

[CS1]

The bible indicates that truth is established by 2-3 witnesses. Peter first feed the truth of the need for everyone to be baptized in Jesus' name and to receive the Holy Ghost as he and others had on that very first day in Jerusalem. (Acts 2:38) Those who believed his message were baptized as recorded in Acts 2:41. After feeding this truth to the Jews (sheep) he was used by God to feed the Gentiles. (lambs) (Acts 10:44-48)

Peter also played a part in feeding the Samaritans (sheep) as seen in Acts 8:12-18. Ask yourself how Philip knew the group had not received the Holy Ghost. Verse 12 states they believed his message about Jesus and were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. What was missing? The answer can be easily understood when one realizes that speaking in tongues is the evidence that people have received the Holy Ghost.

In addition, consider that every actual water baptism detailed in scripture speaks to the truth that all were done in the name of the Lord Jesus. (Acts 8:12, 16; Acts 10:48, Acts 19:5) Not one time do we see anyone being baptized using the phrase in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

Consider that God's truths are "hidden" in plain sight:

"It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." Prov 25:2

That doesn't apply when Jesus is speaking When Jesus is Speaking HE is fully Authortitative.

Jesus doesn't Paul or Peter to make HIS words Supreme in authority. To suggest Jesus needs two more witnesses to confirm what He said in

Acts 1:8 John chapter 14 & 15, Matthew 24 - 25 , or Chapter 5 through 7 is unbiblical.

Jesus is the first who said Be baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. It was not Peter . Peter said by what authority then HE was baptizing by it was Jesus Christ who he was Baptizing By HIS authority or name "

 

[Magenta]

you are not seeing the Holy Spirit is to be in you and comes upon you the coming upon you is the empowering to do and help be an effective witness for Christ as Jesus said in John 14 - 15 chapters and Acts 1:8.
The Holy Spirit comes in the Believer to bear witness they are Saved HIs Spirit bear witness with our spirit

The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, ( Roman 8:16)

The Holy Spirit upon the believer or the called out one to do the work of the Lord as it has been in the Old Testament now for all as Jesus said in Acts 1:8 YOU shall receive Power after the Holy Spirit has come UPON you to be my witnesses.

The Apostles were saved when HE told them this. They had to have the Holy Spirit than to be saved already

Romans 8:15-16

 

[Wansvic]

That doesn't apply when Jesus is speaking When Jesus is Speaking HE is fully Authortitative.

Jesus doesn't Paul or Peter to make HIS words Supreme in authority. To suggest Jesus needs two more witnesses to confirm what He said in

Acts 1:8 John chapter 14 & 15, Matthew 24 - 25 , or Chapter 5 through 7 is unbiblical.

Jesus is the first who said Be baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. It was not Peter . Peter said by what authority then HE was baptizing by it was Jesus Christ who he was Baptizing By HIS authority or name "

My point about establishing truth by 2-3 witnesses was concerning the use of Jesus' name in water baptism.

Jesus gave the apostles a command which they in turn obeyed. Jesus said to baptize in the name of... They did exactly as Jesus commanded and baptized in Jesus' name. Those who baptize using the phrase rather than obeying it are following a tradition begun by the forerunners of the Roman Catholic Church in 325 A.D.

It should be noted that in Jesus dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Col 2:9-10
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: KJV

 

[Wansvic]

In addition, nothing in John 20:22 was symbolic unless you think Jesus did not appear to them and say Peace Be unto you then HE Breathed on them. Receive the Holy Spirit. You are taking John 3:8 out of context too.

Please explain what you believe John 3:8 is referencing.

 

[CS1]

Please explain what you believe John 3:8 is referencing.

In order to understand John 3:8 we must read before it and after with other passages of Scripture.

verse 8
"The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."

The words of Jesus can not be understood with this verse alone. Jesus was speaking and the context of what HE said in verse 8 was established in verse 3. You must be born again.

Nicodemus did not understand what Jesus was saying in fact he took it as physical rebirth as verses 4-5 say.

Jesus in verse 5 says:

5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.
6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.
7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’

8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

Jesus is saying to Nicodemus learn from what you see God doing even if you do not see him, just like the wind, No one can see the wind, Only the effects of it. We can not see the Holy Spirit but we know HIS work when HE is doing it.

Nicodemus says 9 “How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.

Jesus answers HIm:

10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things?
11 Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony.

12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?
13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.
14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”

This is all leading to John 3:16 for salvation to those who believe. And Jesus is saying LOOK! at what I have done can you not see God is working by what I have done? That is what verse 8 is saying.

 

[Gardenias]

If there is no function to the empowering of the Holy Spirit as Jesus said in Acts 1:8 I guess you think Jesus was wrong?

The Lord Jesus said you SHALL receive power Afte the Holy Spirit has come upon you to be HIS witnesses.

Excuse me!
I never said there was no function of power for being baptized with the Holy Ghost.
I have the Pentecost experience with the evidence of tongues.
I fully believe every word Jesus said!
He equips the believer for what they seek and how we are to walk.
The indwelling of the HS ia an awesomely wonderful experience!

 

[BillG]

My point about establishing truth by 2-3 witnesses was concerning the use of Jesus' name in water baptism.

Are you saying that 2-3 witnesses must be present when someone is baptised in the of Jesus only?

Is so is one of them being baptised, a witness that it is?

 

[Wansvic]

In order to understand John 3:8 we must read before it and after with other passages of Scripture.

verse 8
"The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."

The words of Jesus can not be understood with this verse alone. Jesus was speaking and the context of what HE said in verse 8 was established in verse 3. You must be born again.

Nicodemus did not understand what Jesus was saying in fact he took it as physical rebirth as verses 4-5 say.

Jesus in verse 5 says:

5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.
6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.
7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’

8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

Jesus is saying to Nicodemus learn from what you see God doing even if you do not see him, just like the wind, No one can see the wind, Only the effects of it. We can not see the Holy Spirit but we know HIS work when HE is doing it.

Nicodemus says 9 “How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.

Jesus answers HIm:

10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things?
11 Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony.

12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?
13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.
14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”

This is all leading to John 3:16 for salvation to those who believe. And Jesus is saying LOOK! at what I have done can you not see God is working by what I have done? That is what verse 8 is saying.

I disagree.

The context of the chapter is established in John 3:3. Jesus said all must be born again. He then references that although wind can not be seen, the effects of it can be heard. Jesus goes on to say, so too is everyone that is born of the Spirit. Meaning the Spirit cannot be seen but the effects of receiving it can be heard. This perfectly parallels Peter statement to those who were puzzled about why people were speaking in tongues in Acts 2:33. "Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. They saw people reacting to being filled with the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues.


John 3:3-8
3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

4 Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?"

5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit."
NKJV

 

[CS1]

Excuse me!
I never said there was no function of power for being baptized with the Holy Ghost.
I have the Pentecost experience with the evidence of tongues.
I fully believe every word Jesus said!
He equips the believer for what they seek and how we are to walk.
The indwelling of the HS ia an awesomely wonderful experience!

calm down,

 

[CS1]

My point about establishing truth by 2-3 witnesses was concerning the use of Jesus' name in water baptism.

Jesus gave the apostles a command which they in turn obeyed. Jesus said to baptize in the name of... They did exactly as Jesus commanded and baptized in Jesus' name. Those who baptize using the phrase rather than obeying it are following a tradition begun by the forerunners of the Roman Catholic Church in 325 A.D.

It should be noted that in Jesus dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Col 2:9-10
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: KJV

in context to using "the name" who is authoritative? Jesus what he said or Peter? Surely Peter was not counteracting The Lord? So, there has to be a misunderstanding with the application in how one uses it.

IN the name of mean by the authority in which one is doing the action like baptism.


BY the authority of Jesus Christ of Nazareth whom you crucified Whom God raised from the dead I am baptizing you by HIS authority in the name of the father, son, and Holy Spirit. Complte authority in the whole Godhead to testify they are in unit to this very action of baptism

 

[CS1]

Excuse me!
I never said there was no function of power for being baptized with the Holy Ghost.
I have the Pentecost experience with the evidence of tongues.
I fully believe every word Jesus said!
He equips the believer for what they seek and how we are to walk.
The indwelling of the HS ia an awesomely wonderful experience!

LOL No problem

 

[CS1]

I disagree.

The context of the chapter is established in John 3:3. Jesus said all must be born again. He then references that although wind can not be seen, the effects of it can be heard. Jesus goes on to say, so too is everyone that is born of the Spirit. Meaning the Spirit cannot be seen but the effects of receiving it can be heard. This perfectly parallels Peter statement to those who were puzzled about why people were speaking in tongues in Acts 2:33. "Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. They saw people reacting to being filled with the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues.


John 3:3-8
3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

4 Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?"

5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit."
NKJV

the issue you have with your understanding is just one,

please show me where Jesus said "it can be heard." in context to the Holy Spirit or being born again in John 3:3-8

 

[Wansvic]

Are you saying that 2-3 witnesses must be present when someone is baptised in the of Jesus only?

Is so is one of them being baptised, a witness that it is?

No. What I mean by witnesses is that at least 2 or 3 scriptures state the same thing. This is the way of confirming that what we believe is actually true. Example; we know that every detailed water baptism record shows that the apostles baptized using the name of the Lord Jesus. This tells us that it is the way it is supposed to be administered.

Many think that Jesus meant for people to baptize using the phrase in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. However, since there are no scriptures showing it was done that way we must examine exactly what Jesus meant by what he said. And upon study the truth is revealed. Clearly Jesus was referring to using his name. Peter gave the initial instruction in Acts 2:38-41. See all four of the detailed records showing other apostles did the same; Acts 8:12-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6, 22:16.

 

[CS1]

No. What I mean by witnesses is that at least 2 or 3 scriptures state the same thing. This is the way of confirming that what we believe is actually true. Example; we know that every detailed water baptism record shows that the apostles baptized using the name of the Lord Jesus. This tells us that it is the way it is supposed to be administered.

Many think that Jesus meant for people to baptize using the phrase in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. However, since there are no scriptures showing it was done that way we must examine exactly what Jesus meant by what he said. And upon study the truth is revealed. Clearly Jesus was referring to using his name. Peter gave the initial instruction in Acts 2:38-41. See all four of the detailed records showing other apostles did the same; Acts 8:12-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6, 22:16.

Jesus doesn't need two or three scriptures but Peter does and HE said Quoting the Prophet Joel 2 " This is that". Jesus said that was for power to be a witness of the resurrected Lord Peter said the something which 3000 was saved on the day of Pentacost

 

[CS1]

I disagree.

The context of the chapter is established in John 3:3. Jesus said all must be born again. He then references that although wind can not be seen, the effects of it can be heard. Jesus goes on to say, so too is everyone that is born of the Spirit. Meaning the Spirit cannot be seen but the effects of receiving it can be heard. This perfectly parallels Peter statement to those who were puzzled about why people were speaking in tongues in Acts 2:33. "Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. They saw people reacting to being filled with the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues.


John 3:3-8
3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

4 Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?"

5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit."
NKJV

FYI Jesus did not speak in tongues

 

[BillG]

Many think that Jesus meant for people to baptize using the phrase in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. However, since there are no scriptures showing it was done that way we must examine exactly what Jesus meant by what he said. And upon study the truth is revealed. Clearly Jesus was referring to using his name. Peter gave the initial instruction in Acts 2:38-41. See all four of the detailed records showing other apostles did the same; Acts 8:12-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6, 22:16.

Ok

Concerning this Jesus said

Matthew 28:18-19
18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

There seems to be a contradiction here.

Jesus said this did he not?

If the answer is yes then what?

Did Jesus say this?

 

[BillG]

No. What I mean by witnesses is that at least 2 or 3 scriptures state the same thing. This is the way of confirming that what we believe is actually true. Example; we know that every detailed water baptism record shows that the apostles baptized using the name of the Lord Jesus. This tells us that it is the way it is supposed to be administered.

Then you should have made that clearer.
You should have said "Where at least 2 or 3 scriptures say this then that confirms what is true or what you believe to be true"

You made it look like people.

My point about establishing truth by 2-3 witnesses was concerning the use of Jesus' name in water baptism.

A good few posts back I asked you why Jesus could not condemn the adultress woman and if memory serves me you said

"Because there were not 2-3 witnesses.
Aka people.

What about this guy?

Acts 8:36-38
36 Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?”
37 Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.”
And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”
38 So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him.

Nothing here states that he was baptised in the name of Jesus only, therefore it's invalid?

Acts 8:36-37
36 Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?”
37 Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.”
And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”