Are You a Spiritual Infant?

SophieT · Sep 6, 2021

I don't Dr Evans teaching at all and would have to learn more...which I can do possibly when I have time

some folks just go swinging through the forum like they are Thor with his hammer on a bad day

would have to read more closely and get back to you on that

Dino246 · Sep 6, 2021

SteveEpperson said:

I don't agree. Given that you provide the list below, it appears to me that you believe the "pastor" is solely responsible for the spiritual state of every person even loosely associated with a congregation. That is unreasonable, firstly because Scripture teaches a plurality of elders in the local church, and secondly, because we as believers are to step up and do the work of ministry whether we're paid or not. The person who led the "infant" to Christ bears some responsibility to mentor that person.

SteveEpperson said:

There are many pastors who, despite the ridiculous expectations dumped on them, do their best to fulfill them. Many people will refuse to talk to any person other than the pastor, even about the most pedestrian, petty, or irrelevant of concerns that could be easily (and often better) handled by someone else.

tourist · Sep 6, 2021

p_rehbein said:

Ditto.

SteveEpperson · Sep 6, 2021

p_rehbein said:

Have you?

I've visited enough churches in my life to know that all of them have failed me spiritually. And I'm not the only one on the planet who feels this way.

p_rehbein said:

And let me guess, those reasons are:

1. People go to church to be entertained
2. Their parents didn't bring them up properly
3. It's the millennial's, gen-zer's, gen-Xer's, and all the other latter generations that are aged 107 and below who are the real problem
4. No one's willing to "go to church" anymore, so it's everyone else's fault
5. It's the end of times, and it's hopeless so that automatically lets the church leaders off the hook

Sorry, but I don't buy it. And neither do the millions of other former church members you so desperately want back.

"But we're leading people to Christ," is the rebuttal heard from church leaders. "And if we lead just one person to Christ, our $1 million budget is worth it."

And I agree with that. But what about the other 99 people who faithfully show up every Sunday? I don't think Jesus was talking about permanently abandoning the 99 once the one was saved.

p_rehbein said:

You make my point for me in such a perfect way. If it's about God doing all the work, why do we need pastors?

p_rehbein said:

You make my case again even better this time. You imply that the person who is truly saved automatically BECOMES a spiritual believer without any help from anyone since they have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

So, maybe if all the pastors, preachers, and church administrators got out of the way, the new believer can BECOME a mature believer a little faster.

p_rehbein said:

And here's the favorite fall-back position:

It's those OTHER denominations, pastors, and church members who are the problem. So, you need to come to OUR church since WE lead the best example.

p_rehbein said:

The indwelling of the Holy Spirit comes at conversion:

he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit Titus 3:5

Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God 1 John 4:15

Both Paul and John clearly state that the Holy Spirit indwells in us at conversion and that there is no need for ceremony, fanfare, or learning to speak other languages, later on, to prove it to the world.

I would implore you if you are in the position of power at your church to relinquish that power back to God. Also, open up your church; who cares if those heathens from the outside track in a little mud?

Better yet, take the church to the gates of hell as Jesus did and I'll follow in with you.

glen55 · Sep 6, 2021

SteveEpperson said:

Are You a Spiritual Infant?

Dr. Tony Evans, pastor of Oak Cliff Bible Fellowship in Dallas, broadcast a sermon last Wednesday on CSN Radio. It was titled Time to Grow Up.

In it, he posed the question, "Are you a spiritual infant?"

And while this is a valid question for all of us who gave our lives to Christ, it may be somewhat misplaced.

Keep reading because the evidence shows that, although God wants us to be mature in our ways, our churches aren't allowing that growth to happen.

Worse, the institutional hierarchy forced on Christians over 2,000 years ago has created a system where those at the top are unwilling to yield power back to God.

But first, it's essential to start with Dr. Evans' sermon.

The Case for Maturing as a Christian

Dr. Evans begins by noting the shifting environment between being a non-Christian and a new convert. He says that the minute we submit to Christ, we transfer from the dark to the light, from hell to eternal life with God.

Spiritual maturity

According to Dr. Evans, God wants us to grow up. He says, "Too many of God's children are still in the crib."

He points to this scripture written by Paul to the church in Colosse:

We proclaim him by instructing and teaching all people with all wisdom so that we may present every person mature in Christ. Toward this goal I also labor, struggling according to his power that powerfully works in me. Col. 1:28-29 NET2

Paul accepted the responsibility

Notice how Paul took immediate responsibility for this critical task. And in turn, he tasked the leaders of this church to do the same.

Simply put, it was the responsibility of the church leaders to present everyone mature in Christ. And the reason Paul struggled and labored so hard is that he realized that if he failed, there was no one else to blame.

But also notice that he didn't tell them to go out and get a college degree first. Nor were there any "Discipleship 101" classes. Instead, he simply assumed that the leading of the Holy Spirit would be sufficient for everyone in the church to be successful.

Why Are We a Bunch of Spiritual Infants?

Here is what Dr. Evans says:

"If you've been saved five years or more, and you are not spiritual (where you look through God's lens as a normal way you operate), then you are a spiritual infant, a fleshly believer, who is missing out on [a] spiritual experience."

He then points to this scripture:

About this we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food, for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child. But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil. Heb. 5:11 ESV

This passage is often misunderstood

Like so many other pastors who have preached on this subject, Dr. Evans assumes that these people had never had an ounce of teaching fed to them. And the result is that they were spiritual infants.

However, that's not true according to the context. For example, when the writer (presumably an apostle) says, "you need someone to teach you again," they affirm that the church was grounded in at least the fundamentals of the Gospel.

Also, the statement, "you have become dull of hearing," suggests that these students had merely digressed, and this entire rebuke was designed to shame them into caring more about their progress.

Some commentators even go further to say that those in the Church at Colosse were mature, but they were acting like spiritual infants, presumably from being persecuted constantly.

This is not to say that the writer let them off the hook in any way. That's because there was lots of one-on-one discipleship going on in the church, unlike today.

There were massive amounts of time invested in all church members, not just the ones who were fortunate enough to attend college. These were ordinary people. And they were trained every day by the leadership to do extraordinary things.

No wonder the writer was so indignant when those in the church had fallen away. Paul and other church leaders had a right to be upset.

Do Today's Leaders Have the Right to Complain?

Today, many pastors point to Hebrews 5:11 as permission to show the same righteous indignation toward us lowly church attendees as the writer did back then.

However, there is a difference between those in the early church and us today. They were being trained, while today, we're being entertained. For that reason, church leaders have no right to shame us in the same way.

The Current Church Model is Broken

Part of the problem of being stuck in infancy is the way we "do church." Discipleship for the average Christian attending a North American church looks like this:

Sit for one hour a week in church listening to the only person allowed to speak
Go to bible study on Wednesdays except when the pastor is out sick, or during holidays, or summer breaks, or when school is out, or when there's no bible study offered
Attend an occasional "marriage seminar" costing only $399 while seats are available

Church leaders are afraid to let others teach since they are the ones who earned a degree in theology. Worse, some are so possessed by power that they will not let go of the reigns for even a moment.

One Possible Fix

For about 2,000 years now, Christ-followers have endured a top-down, hierarchal system where we were dictated to by academic elites. But maybe now is the time for a bottom-up approach to discipleship that Paul espoused.

Here are some ideas to get started on the journey to becoming mature Christians:

Take back our churches by firing all paid employees and turning them into volunteers like us
Stop preaching sermons for six months. Instead, invite the unsaved to the church building for open-house, question and answer sessions on Saturdays and Sundays.
Open the church on Tuesdays for family game night
Open the church on Thursdays for discipleship training
Open the church on Fridays for crisis prevention or food bank activities

In other words, we need to take back the keys from overpaid administrators and open up our churches to the community once again. Only when our church dies to itself will it live again as a new creation in Christ.

After Saul became Paul then he was wakened on his inside, even Jesus mentioned the kingdoms in man and not observed by sons of man, Luke 17:20And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Paul knew it was all allegory and Imagination was God in man not classic theology Saul and all sons of man are blind about thinking like sons of God in them, Phil 2:5Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

SteveEpperson · Sep 6, 2021

glen55 said:

The key here is not being thought of as equal to God.

And many of our leaders think too highly of themselves.

Icedaisey · Sep 6, 2021

SteveEpperson said:

I did read your post carefully. You can't lump a false teacher in with any credible preachers and think you're on a good path.

I should be clear. I wasn't looking to convince you. I suggested you research your source that you posted without vetting them first to see if they are of God or not.
Which is why I didn't post any sources to support what I know of Tony Evans.
I made statements about his theology. Some thought I should post sources to be "more credible". Which is funny in that it is contrary to your OP. Your OP article author isn't credible as a Bible teaching Christian pastor.

You posted that article, source, without any credibility being attached to the one thinking to identify, according to his theology, spiritual infants.
Had you prioritized credibility of a pastor you think worthy of teaching Christians here, you'd have done the research I did long ago about Evans.

You didn't. Now, even when there are interviews and articles, and videos, of Evans saying the very things I've said about him, you still don't research his theology.

You prefer a false teacher's teachings enter here. I say that because unlike you I know Evan's teachings are heresy.

My objective was to insure once Evans teachings did enter due to y our OP, that those reading would know he is false. As you expect them to read that OP piece and consider it for their walk with Christ, I thought to out Evans theology so that people could consider his heresy, research the depth of it for themselves if they're so inclined, and then re-consider or consider your article in that light. The point of not posting links in my first reply? To see if people would make that effort. When they're expected to read your OP and take it at face value without knowing anything about Evans.

SteveEpperson · Sep 8, 2021

Blain said:

Sorry, it took so long to reply to this.

I am maturing all the time as a Christian, albeit very slowly. But I would personally measure my progress by my relationship with the Father. Here's my assessment:

1. I think about God more than I used to
2. I pray to the Father in Jesus' name more than I used to
3. I'm much more sensitive to my sin than I used to be
4. I sin differently. I don't plan my sins as I used to (Praise God!)
5. I discover my need for Him more each day
6. I'm slowly becoming a bit more gentle each day, although I still fight with anger all the time
7. I'm on my face in repentance much more than I used to be

As mature Christians, we depend more on God than ourselves; our faith grows a tiny bit each day.

What do you think about that?

Blain · Sep 8, 2021

SteveEpperson said:

It seems to me you are quite mature as a believer. It is a slow and ever growing process as is anything that fosters great results. The fact you measure it by your relationship with the father tells me you will go very far indeed there are believers who have been saved for all their lives and would not give such an answer

Mofastus · Sep 11, 2021

SteveEpperson said:

Are You a Spiritual Infant?

Dr. Tony Evans, pastor of Oak Cliff Bible Fellowship in Dallas, broadcast a sermon last Wednesday on CSN Radio. It was titled Time to Grow Up.

In it, he posed the question, "Are you a spiritual infant?"

And while this is a valid question for all of us who gave our lives to Christ, it may be somewhat misplaced.

Keep reading because the evidence shows that, although God wants us to be mature in our ways, our churches aren't allowing that growth to happen.

Worse, the institutional hierarchy forced on Christians over 2,000 years ago has created a system where those at the top are unwilling to yield power back to God.

But first, it's essential to start with Dr. Evans' sermon.

The Case for Maturing as a Christian

Dr. Evans begins by noting the shifting environment between being a non-Christian and a new convert. He says that the minute we submit to Christ, we transfer from the dark to the light, from hell to eternal life with God.

Spiritual maturity

According to Dr. Evans, God wants us to grow up. He says, "Too many of God's children are still in the crib."

He points to this scripture written by Paul to the church in Colosse:

We proclaim him by instructing and teaching all people with all wisdom so that we may present every person mature in Christ. Toward this goal I also labor, struggling according to his power that powerfully works in me. Col. 1:28-29 NET2

Paul accepted the responsibility

Notice how Paul took immediate responsibility for this critical task. And in turn, he tasked the leaders of this church to do the same.

Simply put, it was the responsibility of the church leaders to present everyone mature in Christ. And the reason Paul struggled and labored so hard is that he realized that if he failed, there was no one else to blame.

But also notice that he didn't tell them to go out and get a college degree first. Nor were there any "Discipleship 101" classes. Instead, he simply assumed that the leading of the Holy Spirit would be sufficient for everyone in the church to be successful.

Why Are We a Bunch of Spiritual Infants?

Here is what Dr. Evans says:

"If you've been saved five years or more, and you are not spiritual (where you look through God's lens as a normal way you operate), then you are a spiritual infant, a fleshly believer, who is missing out on [a] spiritual experience."

He then points to this scripture:

About this we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food, for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child. But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil. Heb. 5:11 ESV

This passage is often misunderstood

Like so many other pastors who have preached on this subject, Dr. Evans assumes that these people had never had an ounce of teaching fed to them. And the result is that they were spiritual infants.

However, that's not true according to the context. For example, when the writer (presumably an apostle) says, "you need someone to teach you again," they affirm that the church was grounded in at least the fundamentals of the Gospel.

Also, the statement, "you have become dull of hearing," suggests that these students had merely digressed, and this entire rebuke was designed to shame them into caring more about their progress.

Some commentators even go further to say that those in the Church at Colosse were mature, but they were acting like spiritual infants, presumably from being persecuted constantly.

This is not to say that the writer let them off the hook in any way. That's because there was lots of one-on-one discipleship going on in the church, unlike today.

There were massive amounts of time invested in all church members, not just the ones who were fortunate enough to attend college. These were ordinary people. And they were trained every day by the leadership to do extraordinary things.

No wonder the writer was so indignant when those in the church had fallen away. Paul and other church leaders had a right to be upset.

Do Today's Leaders Have the Right to Complain?

Today, many pastors point to Hebrews 5:11 as permission to show the same righteous indignation toward us lowly church attendees as the writer did back then.

However, there is a difference between those in the early church and us today. They were being trained, while today, we're being entertained. For that reason, church leaders have no right to shame us in the same way.

The Current Church Model is Broken

Part of the problem of being stuck in infancy is the way we "do church." Discipleship for the average Christian attending a North American church looks like this:

Sit for one hour a week in church listening to the only person allowed to speak
Go to bible study on Wednesdays except when the pastor is out sick, or during holidays, or summer breaks, or when school is out, or when there's no bible study offered
Attend an occasional "marriage seminar" costing only $399 while seats are available

Church leaders are afraid to let others teach since they are the ones who earned a degree in theology. Worse, some are so possessed by power that they will not let go of the reigns for even a moment.

One Possible Fix

For about 2,000 years now, Christ-followers have endured a top-down, hierarchal system where we were dictated to by academic elites. But maybe now is the time for a bottom-up approach to discipleship that Paul espoused.

Here are some ideas to get started on the journey to becoming mature Christians:

Take back our churches by firing all paid employees and turning them into volunteers like us
Stop preaching sermons for six months. Instead, invite the unsaved to the church building for open-house, question and answer sessions on Saturdays and Sundays.
Open the church on Tuesdays for family game night
Open the church on Thursdays for discipleship training
Open the church on Fridays for crisis prevention or food bank activities

In other words, we need to take back the keys from overpaid administrators and open up our churches to the community once again. Only when our church dies to itself will it live again as a new creation in Christ.

It's Jesus that makes a believer free, not a pastor or church in it's functions, Paul says many things, yes I believe he wrote Hebrews as well, some do not agree he did I'm ok with that as well. but 5:11 continues on to verse 14 of which is a beautiful exhortation to press in (Philippians 3:14). You can find these admonitions and exhortations in most all of his epistles : example: Philippians 2:21, Galatians 4:19, 1 Cor. 4:10, 1 Cor. 9:24-25 etc.

Paul even counts all his accomplishments as dung that he may win Christ Jesus in Philippians 3:8. Paul's focus was mostly all about Jesus Philippians 1:18, even himself 1 Cor. 2:2. We each have a part in the body of Christ even considering others better than ourselves Philippians 2:3. As disciples, Acts 14:22, each believer through much tribulation must enter, Jesus gave the warnings Luke 13:24, even rebuked the leaders in Matthew 23:13, Matthew 15:8,9.

I believe you go to church to be fed the word of God for spiritual growth at your own pace, and the people there could be there working and being fed in their own spiritual growth in their own pace as a pastor, choir member, secretary. Even if I'm only fed a crumb, I will be rejoicing about the gathering of saints, as we are all a part of each other and pray that I too could share a crumb of my crumb to another for their joy and walk of faith. Colossians 4:6, 2 Corinthians 1:24, 3:18.

Jesus says it best: Luke 22:26 But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve.

SteveEpperson · Sep 11, 2021

Mofastus said:

Thank you, I will look into these.

Mofastus said:

You've done a great job up to this point giving evidence with scriptural proof. I notice it's missing here.

Mofastus said:

I also cherish being around other Christ-followers. However, I don't rely on others, including pastors, for my spiritual food.

“It is written, ‘Man does not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’” Matt. 4:4

Mofastus said:

Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how you should answer everyone. Col 4:6

I do not mean that we rule over your faith, but we are workers with you for your joy, because by faith you stand firm 2 Cor. 1:24

And we all, with unveiled faces reflecting the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another, which is from the Lord, who is the Spirit. 2 Cor. 3:18

I'm not sure how these three verses apply to the conversation, other than you're defending the "worker" in the church. And you should.

However, there is greater work to be done than giving sermons and putting on a one-hour show each week; for example, making disciples.

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. Mat. 28:19-20

Notice, the Lord didn't say to his disciples, "Go and construct large buildings to hide in for one hour a week and do your own thing for the other 167 hours."

SteveEpperson · Sep 12, 2021

JaumeJ said:

Did you mean nonagenarian? I believe that means a person between the age of 90 and 99.

And while I think anyone of any age is capable of teaching, I also agree that there are some spiritually immature 100-year-olds.

So, for that reason, age is a non-factor.

JaumeJ · Sep 12, 2021

SteveEpperson said:

Shall we just throw out respecting your elders, even when you may believe them to be infirm? If that latter is the case, and you truly believe, out of the love you are giftedd with, pray for them all.

mindfulzen · Sep 12, 2021

SteveEpperson said:

Are You a Spiritual Infant?

Dr. Tony Evans, pastor of Oak Cliff Bible Fellowship in Dallas, broadcast a sermon last Wednesday on CSN Radio. It was titled Time to Grow Up.

In it, he posed the question, "Are you a spiritual infant?"

And while this is a valid question for all of us who gave our lives to Christ, it may be somewhat misplaced.

Keep reading because the evidence shows that, although God wants us to be mature in our ways, our churches aren't allowing that growth to happen.

Worse, the institutional hierarchy forced on Christians over 2,000 years ago has created a system where those at the top are unwilling to yield power back to God.

But first, it's essential to start with Dr. Evans' sermon.

The Case for Maturing as a Christian

Dr. Evans begins by noting the shifting environment between being a non-Christian and a new convert. He says that the minute we submit to Christ, we transfer from the dark to the light, from hell to eternal life with God.

Spiritual maturity

According to Dr. Evans, God wants us to grow up. He says, "Too many of God's children are still in the crib."

He points to this scripture written by Paul to the church in Colosse:

We proclaim him by instructing and teaching all people with all wisdom so that we may present every person mature in Christ. Toward this goal I also labor, struggling according to his power that powerfully works in me. Col. 1:28-29 NET2

Paul accepted the responsibility

Notice how Paul took immediate responsibility for this critical task. And in turn, he tasked the leaders of this church to do the same.

Simply put, it was the responsibility of the church leaders to present everyone mature in Christ. And the reason Paul struggled and labored so hard is that he realized that if he failed, there was no one else to blame.

But also notice that he didn't tell them to go out and get a college degree first. Nor were there any "Discipleship 101" classes. Instead, he simply assumed that the leading of the Holy Spirit would be sufficient for everyone in the church to be successful.

Why Are We a Bunch of Spiritual Infants?

Here is what Dr. Evans says:

"If you've been saved five years or more, and you are not spiritual (where you look through God's lens as a normal way you operate), then you are a spiritual infant, a fleshly believer, who is missing out on [a] spiritual experience."

He then points to this scripture:

About this we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food, for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child. But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil. Heb. 5:11 ESV

This passage is often misunderstood

Like so many other pastors who have preached on this subject, Dr. Evans assumes that these people had never had an ounce of teaching fed to them. And the result is that they were spiritual infants.

However, that's not true according to the context. For example, when the writer (presumably an apostle) says, "you need someone to teach you again," they affirm that the church was grounded in at least the fundamentals of the Gospel.

Also, the statement, "you have become dull of hearing," suggests that these students had merely digressed, and this entire rebuke was designed to shame them into caring more about their progress.

Some commentators even go further to say that those in the Church at Colosse were mature, but they were acting like spiritual infants, presumably from being persecuted constantly.

This is not to say that the writer let them off the hook in any way. That's because there was lots of one-on-one discipleship going on in the church, unlike today.

There were massive amounts of time invested in all church members, not just the ones who were fortunate enough to attend college. These were ordinary people. And they were trained every day by the leadership to do extraordinary things.

No wonder the writer was so indignant when those in the church had fallen away. Paul and other church leaders had a right to be upset.

Do Today's Leaders Have the Right to Complain?

Today, many pastors point to Hebrews 5:11 as permission to show the same righteous indignation toward us lowly church attendees as the writer did back then.

However, there is a difference between those in the early church and us today. They were being trained, while today, we're being entertained. For that reason, church leaders have no right to shame us in the same way.

The Current Church Model is Broken

Part of the problem of being stuck in infancy is the way we "do church." Discipleship for the average Christian attending a North American church looks like this:

Sit for one hour a week in church listening to the only person allowed to speak
Go to bible study on Wednesdays except when the pastor is out sick, or during holidays, or summer breaks, or when school is out, or when there's no bible study offered
Attend an occasional "marriage seminar" costing only $399 while seats are available

Church leaders are afraid to let others teach since they are the ones who earned a degree in theology. Worse, some are so possessed by power that they will not let go of the reigns for even a moment.

One Possible Fix

For about 2,000 years now, Christ-followers have endured a top-down, hierarchal system where we were dictated to by academic elites. But maybe now is the time for a bottom-up approach to discipleship that Paul espoused.

Here are some ideas to get started on the journey to becoming mature Christians:

Take back our churches by firing all paid employees and turning them into volunteers like us
Stop preaching sermons for six months. Instead, invite the unsaved to the church building for open-house, question and answer sessions on Saturdays and Sundays.
Open the church on Tuesdays for family game night
Open the church on Thursdays for discipleship training
Open the church on Fridays for crisis prevention or food bank activities

In other words, we need to take back the keys from overpaid administrators and open up our churches to the community once again. Only when our church dies to itself will it live again as a new creation in Christ.

Good suggestion. All priests should be called by God, ordained by God, enough with the schools already. It should be more hardcore, old school, but also lighthearted and fun. Like the black churches are online. The whiteys churches seem boring. And the rules are ignored. What I can say, is that this model about making money and getting more to join is all wrong. Preach old school, say it as it is, like it or not. Church should not be about a wide tent for all, it is about preparing christians for the next life. So they can live this life on the narrow path.

Mofastus · Sep 12, 2021

SteveEpperson said:

Thank you, I will look into these.

You've done a great job up to this point giving evidence with scriptural proof. I notice it's missing here.

@@@...ok, Hebrews 10:24, Romans 10:17, Ephesians 4:13, I can back my opinions with scripture if need be, can answer only with scripture as well

I also cherish being around other Christ-followers. However, I don't rely on others, including pastors, for my spiritual food.

“It is written, ‘Man does not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’” Matt. 4:4

@@@...2 Peter 2:10

Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how you should answer everyone. Col 4:6

I do not mean that we rule over your faith, but we are workers with you for your joy, because by faith you stand firm 2 Cor. 1:24

And we all, with unveiled faces reflecting the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another, which is from the Lord, who is the Spirit. 2 Cor. 3:18

I'm not sure how these three verses apply to the conversation, other than you're defending the "worker" in the church. And you should.

I really don't think most understand what I'm trying to tell them, but perhaps you might see I'm defending every believer

However, there is greater work to be done than giving sermons and putting on a one-hour show each week; for example, making disciples.

@@@...Why is it so easy for you to cheapen a pastoral gift, disciples need to learn as well

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. Mat. 28:19-20

Notice, the Lord didn't say to his disciples, "Go and construct large buildings to hide in for one hour a week and do your own thing for the other 167 hours."[/QUO

@@@...Notice, Paul went to already built gathering places in the communities he went, even Timothy had to be helped to even enter them.

@@@...on a side note: I'm trying to figure out this forum communication practice, I answered between your different statements of what you commented on about my reply to your question initially. Please bear with me, I'll get better, and there again, another reason why we are asked to gather

SteveEpperson · Sep 13, 2021

Hello again, Mofastus.

If you take the left button on the mouse and select the text you wish to reply to, you can then select the word "Reply" by pressing the left mouse key again.

Once you do that, it will quote the other person automatically. It does take a little practice, though. Took me a while. So, be patient.

Rockson · Sep 13, 2021

So how does one know if they're spiritually mature?

Many ways to answer that. I think when one is wanting to see the Kingdom strengthened at all cost and aren't so caught up in the promotion of self. Here's an example. Many people looking for a new church first thing many ask after visiting were they a loving people? Did the welcome me right and good at the doors? Yeah that place is for me! They treated me so well!

I get it it's nice to be treated well but notice the slant. It's all about how everyone effected me. Now think of this. There's a church which isn't a loving church. They didn't treat you well at the doors. They walk in carnality and certainly aren't good wonderful and perfect people. So....where do you go. Yeah well the good friendly chruch yeah that's the place for me! Could be. But consider God might tell you NO I want you to go the the unfriendly church. or the unlovingly church and here's why....so you can help those people. They are your dear precious brothers and sisters in the Lord and God wants your maturity to help bring them out of their weakness.

Mofastus · Sep 13, 2021

SteveEpperson said:

Hello again, Mofastus.

If you take the left button on the mouse and select the text you wish to reply to, you can then select the word "Reply" by pressing the left mouse key again.

Once you do that, it will quote the other person automatically. It does take a little practice, though. Took me a while. So, be patient.

ok ty let's see if it works

Mofastus · Sep 13, 2021

awesome

Mofastus · Sep 13, 2021

I've read the thread, this forum stuff might just be better than I would've thought. I would like to say , nobody can find God for anyone else. you must work it out for yourself, Philippians 2:12, 2 Corinthians 13:5, Galatians 6:4-5, Romans 14:10, even God's chosen people were to seek Him.
Isaiah 55:6, Isaiah 64:7, Jeremiah 29:13, 33:3. Those that are settled and stablished are to be ensamples to help the weaker stand. 1 Peter 5:3,10, 2 Corinthians 1:24 Paul has clear admonishments in 1 Corinthians 8:2,3 and 11,12. Jesus also in Matthew 7:3,4 James in chapter 3:18 and John in 1 John 3:18. which again shows we have to find who we are in Christ Jesus becoming a vessel of honor unto God with the idea of being choice fruit even unto our enemies Matthew 7:16, Luke 6:35, 1 Corinthians 10:32, 2 Corinthians 6:3 and remember that the gospel is on trial in everyone of us. Psalms 19:14, Ephesians 4:29, 1 Timothy 1:5 and of course in 1 Corinthians 13:1-3

Are You a Spiritual Infant?

SophieT

Guest

Senior Member

Senior Member

Junior Member

Active member

Junior Member

Well-known member

Junior Member

The Word Weaver

Active member

Junior Member

Junior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Active member

Junior Member

Active member

Active member

Active member

Active member